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Jubilee is KING!!
the deal
#81 Posted : Wednesday, July 11, 2012 5:41:35 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,534
Location: Windhoek/Nairobbery
JUB FY 2011 Earnings Analysis

Net Earned Premiums-Kes 7.3bn
Net insurance claims & benefits-(Kes6.1bn)
Operating Expenses&Commissions Payable-(Kes3.4bn)
Underwriting Profit/(Loss)-(Kes2.2bn)
Investment&Other Income-Kes3.3bn
Operating Profits-Kes1.1bn
Finance Costs-(Kes50)
Share of results of Associates-Kes1.1bn
PBT-Kes2.1
PAT-Kes1.9bn

Claims Ratio 83.5%
Expense Ratio 46.6
Combined Ratio 130%

Now how much do you pay me??? for all this apart from the personnel attacks from @guru???

mwekez@ji
#82 Posted : Wednesday, July 11, 2012 5:58:25 PM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 5/31/2011
Posts: 5,121
the deal wrote:
JUB FY 2011 Earnings Analysis

Net Earned Premiums-Kes 7.3bn
Net insurance claims & benefits-(Kes6.1bn)
Operating Expenses&Commissions Payable-(Kes3.4bn)
Underwriting Profit/(Loss)-(Kes2.2bn)
Investment&Other Income-Kes3.3bn
Operating Profits-Kes1.1bn
Finance Costs-(Kes50)
Share of results of Associates-Kes1.1bn
PBT-Kes2.1
PAT-Kes1.9bn

Claims Ratio 83.5%
Expense Ratio 46.6
Combined Ratio 130%

Now how much do you pay me??? for all this apart from the personnel attacks from @guru???



@the deal, we disagree with your computation at the highlighted line. We also notice you have just changed position from your earlier combined ratio figure of 146% Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly

Jubilee's Team got it right on this one by saying the underwriting profits amount to KES 540M.

Refer to post #78 by the Guru.


.
guru267
#83 Posted : Wednesday, July 11, 2012 6:51:49 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
the deal wrote:


Now how much do you pay me??? for all this apart from the personnel attacks from @guru???



No personal attacks.. I have made it my duty to shut down haters!!

I find it hard to believe you would push this hard to disprove & dispute what is a FACT & not a debate..

You saying JUB made an underwriting loss is worse than @qw saying PUMA will pay 10bob for KK...

STYLE UP!!
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
the deal
#84 Posted : Wednesday, July 11, 2012 7:41:22 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,534
Location: Windhoek/Nairobbery
guru267 wrote:
the deal wrote:


Now how much do you pay me??? for all this apart from the personnel attacks from @guru???



No personal attacks.. I have made it my duty to shut down haters!!

I find it hard to believe you would push this hard to disprove & dispute what is a FACT & not a debate..

You saying JUB made an underwriting loss is worse than @qw saying PUMA will pay 10bob for KK...

STYLE UP!!

No one is hating on Jubilee I have presented the figures above, comments are welcome...only fools don't change their mind!
the deal
#85 Posted : Wednesday, July 11, 2012 7:45:22 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,534
Location: Windhoek/Nairobbery
mwekez@ji wrote:
the deal wrote:
JUB FY 2011 Earnings Analysis

Net Earned Premiums-Kes 7.3bn
Net insurance claims & benefits-(Kes6.1bn)
Operating Expenses&Commissions Payable-(Kes3.4bn)
Underwriting Profit/(Loss)-(Kes2.2bn)
Investment&Other Income-Kes3.3bn
Operating Profits-Kes1.1bn
Finance Costs-(Kes50)
Share of results of Associates-Kes1.1bn
PBT-Kes2.1
PAT-Kes1.9bn

Claims Ratio 83.5%
Expense Ratio 46.6
Combined Ratio 130%

Now how much do you pay me??? for all this apart from the personnel attacks from @guru???



@the deal, we disagree with your computation at the highlighted line. We also notice you have just changed position from your earlier combined ratio figure of 146% Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly

Jubilee's Team got it right on this one by saying the underwriting profits amount to KES 540M.

Refer to post #78 by the Guru.


.

The Kes3.4bn is coming from Jubilee financial statements...you mean they have overstated their Opex and commissions they pay to agents who sale their policies? What your figure? Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly
guru267
#86 Posted : Wednesday, July 11, 2012 7:49:23 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
the deal wrote:
guru267 wrote:
the deal wrote:


Now how much do you pay me??? for all this apart from the personnel attacks from @guru???



No personal attacks.. I have made it my duty to shut down haters!!

I find it hard to believe you would push this hard to disprove & dispute what is a FACT & not a debate..

You saying JUB made an underwriting loss is worse than @qw saying PUMA will pay 10bob for KK...

STYLE UP!!

No one is hating on Jubilee I have presented the figures above, comments are welcome...only fools don't change their mind!


And why should i listen to or trust a bloggers figures over acturial scientists audited financial statements?? Wouldn't that be abit too foolish??

A Fact is a fact my brother.. No amount of figures you parade here will change that!!

Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
guru267
#87 Posted : Wednesday, July 11, 2012 8:02:40 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
@the deal wrote:

The Kes3.4bn is coming from Jubilee financial statements...you mean they have overstated their Opex and commissions they pay to agents who sale their policies? What your figure? Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly


@the deal why would you include OPEX in calculating underwriting profits?? Just because Buffet does it like that??

What do accounting & acturial standards say about this'll ??
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
Horton
#88 Posted : Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:00:00 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 8/30/2007
Posts: 1,558
Location: Nairobi
@ xxxxx and mwekez@ji
. Underwriting profit is And I quote investopedia "Definition of 'Adjusted Underwriting Profit'
The profit that an insurance company generates after paying out claims and expenses. Insurance companies earn revenue by underwriting new business (selling new insurance policies) and earning income on their financial investments. Subtracted from this revenue are expenses associated with running the business and any claims that are made by insurance policy holders. The remainder is the adjusted underwriting profit. This is a term specific to the insurance industry. 
Also called Underwriting Gain.
http://www.investopedia....rofit.asp#axzz20IsARdSk

Where is your inclusion of ADMINISTRATIVE EXPENSES in your calculations?????



So by the above, but this is not how to work out UNDERWRITING PROFIT/LOSS I beg to modify your thesis as follows:
Net premiums : 7,341,996,000. I agree
add commissions earned + 863,644,000. Agreed
Less net Ben n claims. -6,114,019,000. Agreed
Less comms paid. -1,580,420,000. Agreed although u added 10,000 :)
less Ops expenses. -1,804,331,000. How did you conveniently forget this integral part of the formula?
.

Leaves a net underwriting
loss of -1,293,313,000

I hope someone proves me wrong on this, with CREDIBLE arguments


If you want to work out UNDERWRITING PROFIT, expenses must be deducted.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underwriting_profit

Please read investopedia or any other web based info on this.
I don't understand why you want to subtract operating expenses AFTER how does that work? I didn't make up the rules brother(sister)!! It's just what they are. You can refer to the various links which also say to work out COMBINED RATIO or UNDERWRITING PROFIT, EXPENSES MUST BE SUBTRACTED. But if you don't feel like subtracting the expenses and you want to modify the worldwide formula for whatever reason, please do ...or don't, entirely upto you.


Disclaimer:
I obviously, could be wrong, but opinions expressed on my posts are just my opinions.




Horton
#89 Posted : Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:08:07 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 8/30/2007
Posts: 1,558
Location: Nairobi
@guru i may not be an actuary, {lets not start dropping degrees here :) } but i do have an opinion, like them or not..... Just curious, are you the UNDISPUTED KNOW ALL in insurance? If you are, then we need to strip yer title, coz u need to read a few more Buffett quotes :) Last time I checked, wazua was a forum for all.
Horton
#90 Posted : Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:13:29 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 8/30/2007
Posts: 1,558
Location: Nairobi
guru267 wrote:
@the deal wrote:

The Kes3.4bn is coming from Jubilee financial statements...you mean they have overstated their Opex and commissions they pay to agents who sale their policies? What your figure? Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly


@the deal why would you include OPEX in calculating underwriting profits?? Just because Buffet does it like that??

What do accounting & acturial standards say about this'll ??



LOL it's not Buffett that does that; and if he did, it should be made a rule just in that merit Applause

Doesn't anyone like read books, research online, talk to people in the business and stuff? I mean, seriously, it's hard earned dosh, I can't just put it anywhere till I am 100% satusfied not "BROKER AMESEMA HII NI POA"

As I said earlier,I'm not an expert and I would love for someone to prove me wrong on this with something more than banter. Maybe the rules in Kenya are different or something, I don't know! But i am always willing to be corrected, learn and move on if it makes sense......
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