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Impact of 30% rental income tax on housing development in Kenya
Rahatupu
#76 Posted : Friday, June 15, 2012 10:45:48 AM
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Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 1,982
Location: matano manne
a4architect.com wrote:
@alibaba..true..tax evasion is illegal and should be avoided.

Njiraini can set up systems that are fool proof to ensure this.

Another way is to make taxation fair such that there is no reason to avoid paying the tax i.e it creates a win-win for both govt and citizens.


My two cents on this:

1. Njiraini has done one thing he has widened his tax bracket, since house rent is bound to go up thus those from informal sector jua kali will pay up income tax somehow (if landlords increase rent by similar tax a percentage).
2. Investment in rental properties will stagnate at the current levels and maybe go down if the overall effect does not spur growth leading to reduced interest rates taxes notwithstanding.
Bachuma Gate
#77 Posted : Friday, June 15, 2012 10:51:19 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 3/26/2012
Posts: 280
That's also my thinking but time will tell. Low ROI=less investment=less supply=increase in rent.
DOH
Rahatupu
#78 Posted : Friday, June 15, 2012 10:57:55 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 1,982
Location: matano manne
tonicasert wrote:
The little tax i know, if u own a huge property portfolio, how about forming a company and claiming depreciation on property as an expense, netted off against rental income in calculating taxable income as a way of tax avoidance (not evasion)
.

Someone sort this out and advise:

If you have rental flats earning you say 100k per month with the following expenses:
1. Mortgage interest 114,000
2. Monthly maintenance costs of 10,000

What amount would KRA ask for as tax??
nakujua
#79 Posted : Friday, June 15, 2012 11:08:00 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/17/2009
Posts: 3,583
Location: Kenya
Ali Baba wrote:
BAICHUMA GATE: I think you are mistaken.The world over,no one would surpass investing in real estate for T Bills/Bonds.The interest rates vary all the time.Like in 2003,Tbill rates was so low.And I have told you before,no one stops investing because of taxes.Look you invest in T bills and such securities while accumulating enough capital to invest in real estate.Please read Robert Kiyosaki's Rich Dad's Guide to Investing---What the rich invest in and what the middle class invest in...The middle class invest they way you are arguing.The rich invest in real estate,and that's why they are rich.And please note all investment income is taxable.


The forbe's top 1000 richest only contains 76 individuals in the real estate sector.
Ali Baba
#80 Posted : Friday, June 15, 2012 11:11:38 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 8/29/2008
Posts: 573
BAICHUMA GATE:Then keep worrying how much you make.Real estate is not for everyone....just the way stocks/bonds,bills are not for everyone.
Ali Baba
#81 Posted : Friday, June 15, 2012 11:14:01 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 8/29/2008
Posts: 573
NAKUJUA:That does not mean others don't have real estate.Plus,if you want to join Forbes list,you start a business.Investing in stocks and bonds will not get you there.Only Buffett is there on stock investing...
Bachuma Gate
#82 Posted : Friday, June 15, 2012 11:19:43 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 3/26/2012
Posts: 280
ALI

So what is you honest TAKE on the IMPACT without personalizing anything based on the title of my thread below.

Impact of 30% rental income tax on housing development in Kenya.
DOH
Ali Baba
#83 Posted : Friday, June 15, 2012 11:26:44 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 8/29/2008
Posts: 573
BAICHUMA GATE: I have answered that question more than five times on this thread.Why do you keep repeating??Read the thread again....
selah
#84 Posted : Friday, June 15, 2012 11:28:15 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/13/2009
Posts: 1,950
Location: in kenya
I think this tax although at first looks punitive is a good thing..It will encourage property ownership.

Rental income benefits a very smal percentage of kenyans..we need policies that will incourage pple to own houses and I believe this tax will be a push in the right direction.

If for instance you are paying rent of 30k I am quite sure you can get a mortgage that you can comfortably service..further more I think there are tax incentives/benefits that come with having a mortgage.

Those who will get the pinch are those who dont afford mortgages...prepare for a rent increase I think starting from next month..even if the tax wuld not have been effected yet.
'......to the acknowledgment of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ; 3 In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.' Colossians 2:2-3
poundfoolish
#85 Posted : Friday, June 15, 2012 11:29:20 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/2/2009
Posts: 2,458
Location: Nairobi
Fact: Landlords are not going to absorb the tax alone.. If i was getting 100K from my rental property and now KRA is asking for 30K.. that leaves me with 70K... ill atleast try push up my maths to end up with something in my pocket... So part of the burden will and shall be passed to the Tenant.
However.. i cannot add rent by 30% to maintain my current income..(with the quoted 100K income that would mean hiking rent to almost 140K) that would be crazy...

My bet is rents will be going up by around 5-12%

my question
This hullabaloo on taxing Landlords is proven counter productive a year later and halted for rethinking etc etc.... will any landlord reduce the rent then?
Me thinks this are some ideas that must be thought through quite thoroughly before implementation.
alma
#86 Posted : Friday, June 15, 2012 11:42:31 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/20/2007
Posts: 4,432
Taxing landlords or to be more precise rental income has been in the laws in Kenya for a long time. It just was never implemented. KRA is not changing the law, they are simply saying that they've found a way to catch you.

Kenyans don't want to pay this tax...Yet they say MP's are mean evil going to hell people. Ha!

So even if there's a hullabaloo one year from now, it will go nowhere as you have to repeal that law. That I can assure you won't happen after KRA shows the gov't how much money they will get.

Property prices in Kenya are too high. Including rental prices. There is this mindset that landlords can screw their tenants willy nilly. With formalisation of the industry as this will lead to, this will not be the case.

Let's take an example.

I'm paying rent of 30k somewhere in South B. Landlord decides to increase by 10% to pay his taxes.

Due to lower returns, banks have a problem getting people to subscribe to their shylock intrest rates. They have to reduce their mortgage rates to attract guys.

Soon it becomes attractive to stop paying your landlord an income and instead go get a mortgage in a house somewhere on Thika road or Mombasa Road.

After all, if you take a pen and paper you realise that you are better off getting a mortgage. Heck it might even be profitable due to capital gains.

My opinion is that this new tax will lead to the collapse of property prices in about 5 years. You can take that to the bank.

Next is taxation on capital gains. That to me is the reason why Kenya will never ever become developed however many konzas we build. Hoarding has never been good for the economy. Now here is a country that each and everyone in the property industry is hoarding.

That's my opinion.
Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
Bachuma Gate
#87 Posted : Friday, June 15, 2012 11:59:13 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 3/26/2012
Posts: 280
Selah. Everyone would wish to stay in his own house but thanks to our govern and the banks this wont happen soon.

A mortgage with a repayment of 34,000.00 will get you 2m mortgage at 17%. You cant get a two bed house with that amount in kenya.

A two bed house goes for >4.5m now. The mortagage at 17% is 78,000.00

How many people can afford this.

If you think of building your own house. You need atleast 3m. To buy the land 500,000.00 and 2.5m to build.

Its a tough call.
DOH
nakujua
#88 Posted : Friday, June 15, 2012 12:03:37 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/17/2009
Posts: 3,583
Location: Kenya
Ali Baba wrote:
NAKUJUA:That does not mean others don't have real estate.Plus,if you want to join Forbes list,you start a business.Investing in stocks and bonds will not get you there.Only Buffett is there on stock investing...


I am sure all of them own some form of real estate, but thats not their core generator of riches, or rather its not real estate that made or is keeping them rich.

according to forbes, of all the top 1000 richest, about 120 are on that list due their riches being generated primarily through investments, stocks included - with warren buffet leading that category.

starting a business, will most likely not get you to that list - taking your business public, and thus investing in the stock market will be more likely to get you on that list.
Bachuma Gate
#89 Posted : Friday, June 15, 2012 12:08:10 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 3/26/2012
Posts: 280
ALMA


"Due to lower returns, banks have a problem getting people to subscribe to their shylock intrest rates. They have to reduce their mortgage rates to attract guys."

NOT when the CBR rate is at 20% and when they can invest in Tbills/Bonds.

I dont remember in my adult life when mortgage rates in kenya went below 12%.

It is not that simple. My opinion is that there will be more demand than supply cause most of us cannot afford mortagages. How many people earn more than 50K.
DOH
nakujua
#90 Posted : Friday, June 15, 2012 12:15:02 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/17/2009
Posts: 3,583
Location: Kenya
alma wrote:

Next is taxation on capital gains. That to me is the reason why Kenya will never ever become developed however many konzas we build. Hoarding has never been good for the economy. Now here is a country that each and everyone in the property industry is hoarding.

That's my opinion.


true,
hawa speculators ni wengi sana
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