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CJ MUTUNGA roadblock
Rank: Member Joined: 2/3/2007 Posts: 43
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Its quite simple, if you have an ongoin court case; you can not run for office lumumba had another one that kaca had to vet but the pigs thrashed it!
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/17/2009 Posts: 2,038 Location: GA
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pariah wrote:muthamaki might be blocked (Bifwoli cry) uuuiiiiiii,mutunga is a tikteta,uuuuuiiiiii the emotional outburst that will be witnessed if the two are barred or decide not to contest particulary if its close to the elections followed by the anger may just make someone win in round one
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 5/31/2008 Posts: 1,076
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@Elder’s fears have not been addressed – though my post is not about support or otherwise in regard to those views. As a matter of fact, some in our number have chosen to misinterpret what he is driving at! Assuming that the Ocampo 4 are barred from running/holding public office (at this stage of their case) by a Court ruling on account of the spirit of the Integrity Clause in the Constitution, how about someone bringing a matter to court accusing Raila, Mudavadi or Kalonzo - of Maize/Triton/NHIF scandal, Cemetery, Land Grabbing etc! Would they also be similarly barred from running, even before their cases are determined! @Elder I note that, you hold that this clause shouldn’t have made the Constitution – too late – you ought to have joined Ruto in the No campaign at the time. Dunia ni msongamano..
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Rank: Elder Joined: 8/4/2008 Posts: 2,849 Location: Rupi
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/7/2010 Posts: 2,148 Location: elderville
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B.Timer wrote:@Elder’s fears have not been addressed – though my post is not about support or otherwise in regard to those views.
As a matter of fact, some in our number have chosen to misinterpret what he is driving at!
Assuming that the Ocampo 4 are barred from running/holding public office (at this stage of their case) by a Court ruling on account of the spirit of the Integrity Clause in the Constitution, how about someone bringing a matter to court accusing Raila, Mudavadi or Kalonzo - of Maize/Triton/NHIF scandal, Cemetery, Land Grabbing etc!
Would they also be similarly barred from running, even before their cases are determined!
@Elder I note that, you hold that this clause shouldn’t have made the Constitution – too late – you ought to have joined Ruto in the No campaign at the time.
@B.Timer you are spot on. I could not have said it any better. On the content of the Constitution, I voted yes and would so vote yes again because to me the positives in the Constitution outweigh(ed) the negatives. WIth time, I hope, the negatives would be cut off from the Constitution. He who can express in words the ardour of his love, has but little love to express. - Petrach, Son. (That men by various ways arrive at the same end. - Montaigne, The Essays of.)
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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@BTimer @Elder, nice points you have  Problem with such issues is that people opt to view them through thick political-leaning lens. Thus, if I hate someone I will analyse an issue to their disadvantage and vice-versa. This thread prompted me to go through Ch. 6 jana. It has interesting stuff. Including listing nepotism as one of the characteristics any leader should not have! This may land more people than you think in trouble if we choose to go by the spirit of the law. Let us all go through ch.6 again..
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/23/2008 Posts: 3,017
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B.Timer wrote:@Elder’s fears have not been addressed – though my post is not about support or otherwise in regard to those views.
As a matter of fact, some in our number have chosen to misinterpret what he is driving at!
Assuming that the Ocampo 4 are barred from running/holding public office (at this stage of their case) by a Court ruling on account of the spirit of the Integrity Clause in the Constitution, how about someone bringing a matter to court accusing Raila, Mudavadi or Kalonzo - of Maize/Triton/NHIF scandal, Cemetery, Land Grabbing etc!
Would they also be similarly barred from running, even before their cases are determined!
@Elder I note that, you hold that this clause shouldn’t have made the Constitution – too late – you ought to have joined Ruto in the No campaign at the time.
B.Timer, personally I have no problem with O4 and the maize/Triton/NHIF thieves being subjected to the same standards. The difference at this point is that the O4 are currently facing charges and have even been forced to surrender their public positions while the other group have only been the subject of allegations. So to argue that they should be swept with one big broom is to jump the gun, first lets get the process of prosecuting the maize/trion scandals and the individuals involved should also be barred from running for any offices like the O4 My question to you is this, if O4 have been deemed to be currently unfit to hold public offices (cabinet positions) and have consequently stepped down, what would be the rationale to clear them to run for president to chair future cabinet meetings and lead the country. "The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 5/31/2008 Posts: 1,076
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Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:B.Timer wrote:@Elder’s fears have not been addressed – though my post is not about support or otherwise in regard to those views.
As a matter of fact, some in our number have chosen to misinterpret what he is driving at!
Assuming that the Ocampo 4 are barred from running/holding public office (at this stage of their case) by a Court ruling on account of the spirit of the Integrity Clause in the Constitution, how about someone bringing a matter to court accusing Raila, Mudavadi or Kalonzo - of Maize/Triton/NHIF scandal, Cemetery, Land Grabbing etc!
Would they also be similarly barred from running, even before their cases are determined!
@Elder I note that, you hold that this clause shouldn’t have made the Constitution – too late – you ought to have joined Ruto in the No campaign at the time.
B.Timer, personally I have no problem with O4 and the maize/Triton/NHIF thieves being subjected to the same standards. The difference at this point is that the O4 are currently facing charges and have even been forced to surrender their public positions while the other group have only been the subject of allegations. So to argue that they should be swept with one big broom is to jump the gun, first lets get the process of prosecuting the maize/trion scandals and the individuals involved should also be barred from running for any offices like the O4 My question to you is this, if O4 have been deemed to be currently unfit to hold public offices (cabinet positions) and have consequently stepped down, what would be the rationale to clear them to run for president to chair future cabinet meetings and lead the country. For Starters I offered that I was not arguing for or against @Elders views – I only endeavoured to point out that compatriots here were skirting around the points he had raised. I have no doubt in my mind that you so argue out of wish and desire that Kenya gets the best! We are together on that score! We can however get a few things straight though, – The Ocampo 2 of Uhuru and Muthaura along with Hennry Kosgey have had to get out of public office (albeit partially for some) not as a result of the dictates of Chapter Six of the Constitution, but on the strength of a statute completely removed from the said Spirit as inferred in the Integrity clause. At present we are not aware of any suit in court against the presidential aspirants that I mentioned. But the argument remains, IF the Spirit of the clause were to be taken in the fashion many here are championing, it will only take a conniving and mischievous fellow to put paid to political careers of whomsoever he/she desires – otherwise it would only take instituting proceedings in court – regardless of in whose favour the case will be ruled. I guess you see the inherent danger in such an amorphous legal frame work! You raise matter on those who have been pushed out of office for having cases in Court and their tenability in running for even more influential office! Lets start by appreciating the law that has seen them ‘step aside’ and what it says about running for elective office! It is not lost on you and me, that Politicians caught in this quagmire have only resigned from any appointed office but retained the office that they were elected to! Unfortunately Office of President is elective! And I am not pushing for Presidency of any of the Ocampo suspects – in fact my persuasion is that none between Uhuru and Ruto is suited to become Kenya’s president. Whether they run or not is a different case all together. Dunia ni msongamano..
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 2/10/2010 Posts: 1,001 Location: River Road
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I thought the CJ was charged with sedition sometimes in 1982 and was in jail for six months. Did he stop having integrity for leadership
Raila was charged with treason and sent to detention without trial for 6 years. Did that take away his integrity. When you are charged with a crime that's just an allegation but when you are convicted and you exhaust the channels of appeal then that's another story. But to tell people they can't run because they have ongoing cases and looking for the spirit of the constitution then we begin to impose our values on others we are climbing one very unruly horse. What would stop someone from carrying out a private prosecution against their rivals and using the integrity issue to stop them from running. Mtego wa panya...
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 3/26/2012 Posts: 1,182
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nakujua wrote:mkeiyd wrote:Elder wrote:mkeiyd wrote:Some wazuans don't appreciate the rule of law.
Let CJ do his job.
If it's in the constitution,its for Kenyans. And what would that be? That is the problem that some of us have. @mkeiyd don't you think that when we move from express provisions of the Constitution at Chapter Six to the spirit of that chapter (or the Constitution) then it can abused? @Elder, the constitution cannot contain all that should and should not be. It's not possible. That's why specific laws come in to say expressly what's to be or not to be,based on the SPIRIT that you seem to despise. Any act passed by parliament must be consistent with the constitution. If such an act [now a bill] is to come as it is expected,then it is safe to work on the proviso that,the constitution, thru' the above spirit, bars people of questionable integrity. The assumption of innocence till proven guilty is there to allow due process,not to give leeway to offenders,at the same time,defending the offenders' rights till conviction.. The matter in chapter six is to protect the nation,from alleged offenders. @Elder,if Uhuruto is elected president, can you paint the kind of president/gov't/kenya we'll be having? A Bashir kind of president? A absentee president?
If convicted, another election costing billions?For whose good @Elder? FOR WHOSE GOOD? I don't see whats wrong with a Bashir kind of president, i don't think there is much difference with say a US, Britain or Israel president. If elected they will be immune from prosecution, so nothing to worry about. Concerning the spirit, unless a referendum is called it will be hard to brew that spirit. @nakujua, You don't see ANYTHING wrong with a Bashir kind of presidency? Explain to me how you see that. How well will Sudan do now without much of the oil,meaning no more Chinese help?
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