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Konza City featured on K24 all week this week
a4architect.com
#111 Posted : Wednesday, April 11, 2012 4:52:12 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 1/4/2010
Posts: 1,668
Location: nairobi
@alma..good to know you are a land economist.

The world needs land economists like you who are brave enough to think outside the 'land' box into 'financial' economics as Mason Gaffney here says.
http://www.wealthandwant...cs/Gaffney_LaaDFoP.html

I remember Prof. Kiamba too in the days when he was Dean, College of Arch & Eng.

Ministry of Info has hired the advisory services of Worldbank/IFC.

The best they can advice Ministry of Info is what we are seeing.

Economics 101 teaches that countries develop when they create wealth. Wealth can only be created through efficient production.

Nurturing ICT talent into new products is the most economical way to create wealth as opposed to inviting multinationals then gaining from employment.
The iHubs and other hubs will create more wealth into the country than Konza city in the long run.
As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
murchr
#112 Posted : Wednesday, April 11, 2012 6:05:35 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
@a4architect..I have come to believe that your issue is bigger than what u purport it to be, now u would rather the city be established in a 500 acre piece of land, surely why think small....anyway, look for Ndemo and others in the ministry of comm.....

Its amazing how you contradict yourself, yes countries grow when they create wealth, the last time i was in a business class my lec Prof Lewa told me that a multinational is an org that operates in more that 3 countries, thus, Bidco KCB Equity are examples of our local multinationals. Now in the ICT sector, the local multinationals are the likes of Cellulant, Craft silicon, Ushahidi Inc..Seven seas..and others that are coming up every other day.

My friend, 2030 will definitely not look like 2012 esp in technology, if you have learnt anything about business turbulence, then you will realize that the IT industry is in level 4 and 5 infact IMHO i think 5000 is not enough, but then...there are digital villages.

All the best in your quest.
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
a4architect.com
#113 Posted : Wednesday, April 11, 2012 6:57:40 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 1/4/2010
Posts: 1,668
Location: nairobi
@murchr..true. I hope my arguments can be used to make the world a better place and reduce poverty in developing countries.
In the South Korea park, the 'cities' are several km apart and each is around 200 acres in size[smaller than Kitengela EPZA].


The Kitengela EPZ site has around 500acres vacant. This is not small land. This can be phase 1 and we can have phase 100 or as many phases as sustainable in future[thinking big in a sustainable manner].

By doing so, we will have freed kes 1B tax payer money to be used to lay ICT infrastructure which will result in productivity.

This makes sense to me and its my hope that such an idea can be used by Ministry of Info for the beterment of Kenya as a whole.

On the issue of Govt buying land and reselling to its citizens, my humble opinion is that it could just print the money and cause inflation.
Land owners will not be in a capacity to prevent this. So its not moral for Govt to engage in business since it can potentially be unfair for the citizens.

If govt buys more land, it hampers productivity because land becomes scarce, so its price rises.
When price rises, start-ups will be priced out and will not be able to produce wealth.

Rents will be high hence products will also be expensive . Other countries with cheaper cost of production will thrive at our expense.

This opinion is not cast in stone. If you give a contrary opinion that is convincing, then we will go with your opinion.



As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
murchr
#114 Posted : Wednesday, April 11, 2012 7:09:12 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
The 1B is already spent my friend...and poverty is eradicated by providing opportunities to create wealth. This is not the only project that the govt is undertaking, the resort city in Isiolo is another where the govt is/has acquired 6500 acres.

Again when u think long term, you will see the viability of the projects, we are not talking of kiosks here.
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
a4architect.com
#115 Posted : Wednesday, April 11, 2012 7:48:02 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 1/4/2010
Posts: 1,668
Location: nairobi
Now that the I B is already spent, its important to debate and see if other options can be available especially for future similar projects.

In Isiolo, Govt can acquire as much land as they can since most productivity is in Nairobi.

When Govt acquires land, it becomes scarce since land is a finite resource. This scarcity leads to cost increase. Cost increase leads to cost of productivity going up. Productivity cost rise affects investors since their goods and services are un-affordable/over priced.

Opportunity to create wealth is best provided by saving the KES I Billion and redirecting it into ICT infrastructure or ICT inventors/start up funding or ICT education e.t.c

Govt buying land then reselling to Multinationals or citizens does not increase productivity.

In the long term, towns grow into cities over time e.g Nairobi started with River road and over time, buildings have been demolished,zones rezoned to accommodate the growing city.
In the long term, Nairobi will grow towards Mombasa road past Syokimau and join Machakos,Konza and Kajiado. This is sustainable growth if proper planning ,infrastructure and zoning is done.
As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
murchr
#116 Posted : Wednesday, April 11, 2012 8:07:57 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
Who said they are selling it to multinationals? I thought such orgs are not in the real estate business?

Do you believe that growth without planning should be encouraged? If Athiriver was well planned to be an industrial town, would we be seeing the kind of disorganization and demolitions that we have today? I believe its necessary for zoning to take place. I now fail to understand u completely its ok for govt to acquire land in Isiolo but not in Konza, wao....

I think your last paragraph is the only one that makes sense to me.
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
alma
#117 Posted : Wednesday, April 11, 2012 8:15:46 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/20/2007
Posts: 4,432
For me I don't care what good or bad intentions gov't has.

Gov't should not participate in actively buying and selling land. Beats all purposes for it leasing land to individuals anyway. That's why they have forced acquisitions, where they have to show a need for a project.

Once you allow gov't to buy land from A and sell/lease to B, you have entered the slippery slope of gov't redistributing wealth from those it deems not worthy.

Re-distribution of wealth by gov't should be greatly discouraged. It means that they can come and buy my plot and sell it to Kamau simply because he's a friend to the gov't.

So at the onset the project has economic and moral issues attached.

But I'm still waiting for this ICT component. Everyone still wants to skip it. It is supposed to be the heart of the project, but no one wants to show us the steps this ministry is taking towards growing ICT.

If you mention another awards ceremony or another conference I will know you are not getting the point.
Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
a4architect.com
#118 Posted : Wednesday, April 11, 2012 8:32:02 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 1/4/2010
Posts: 1,668
Location: nairobi
murchr wrote:
Who said they are selling it to multinationals? I thought such orgs are not in the real estate business?

Do you believe that growth without planning should be encouraged? If Athiriver was well planned to be an industrial town, would we be seeing the kind of disorganization and demolitions that we have today? I believe its necessary for zoning to take place. I now fail to understand u completely its ok for govt to acquire land in Isiolo but not in Konza, wao....

I think your last paragraph is the only one that makes sense to me.


During DrNdemo'sK24 interview,he said Multinationals wanted world-class buildings which they could not find in Nairobi hence need for Konza.
He mentioned a few multinationals who had shown interest.
In any case, the Konza project only adds to tax payers when Foreign Direct Investment comes into play as opposed to when citizens buy which is a zero-equation.

Govt selling land to its citizens is like someone buying his own property =zero sum.

Growth without planning should not be encouraged.

Until a few years ago,Athi River Mavoko did not have qualified Planners in charge.Now they have Planners so they are planning well.

Demolitions in Syokimau were as a result of dysfunction between ministry of lands and ministry of local govt in terms of land ownership, not planning.

As we speak,most urban areas around Nairobi e.g Mavoko,Ruiru,Kajiado have qualified Planners in charge hence proper zoning controls. Their capacity needs to be enhanced to ensure compliance.

In Isiolo, Govt buying of land is still improper but will cause less damage to the economy.
As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
a4architect.com
#119 Posted : Wednesday, April 11, 2012 8:44:26 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 1/4/2010
Posts: 1,668
Location: nairobi
jamplu
#120 Posted : Wednesday, April 11, 2012 9:01:20 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 3/25/2010
Posts: 939
Location: Nai
@a4architect.com please lets not talk about planners they cannot reverse the mess in mavoko the place would have been better if it had been left bare for the giraffes and zebras to graze around as they used to before.
I think bwana architect you can enjoy the opportunity for you at konza since you are in the real estate business make your money and move on those of us who'll be interested in moving to Konza can move to konza wale wengine can remain in Nairobi.
Next chapter lets talk about Isiolo I think you'd better see the ministry handling the project and make sure they don't buy the land last i heard they have already identified land!!


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