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Konza City featured on K24 all week this week
a4architect.com
#91 Posted : Monday, April 09, 2012 11:33:31 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 1/4/2010
Posts: 1,668
Location: nairobi
@ murchr..Konza is a viable real estate project if audited well.

Konza City in simple terms is Ministry of Info buying land 5000 ac using tax payer money, subdividing into smaller portions and allocating investors at a cost.

The investors then build as per the zoning regulations set out in within the 5000 acre Konza city.

This is similar to the Tatu city model.

Investors then control the quality,cost and financing of construction of their buildings within their purchased land.

The area is viable for such a real estate project due to proximity to Nairobi,Mombasa road, Airport and railway.

Since land has already been bought, allocating the same land needs to be done within Best Practice eg Public Procurement and Disposal Act.

As to ICT Viability, i leave this to ICT experts to expound.

My hope is that Ministry of Information can update the Konza city site with info on the below.

1. The contract details between Ministry of info and Worldbank/IFC and London Engineers.

2. How the KES 800B cost is arrived at since GoK has already funded kes 1 B for the land and investors will fund their own construction.

2. Methodology to ensure land allocation will be above board since competition for land worth 200k per acre in an area where land is costing 4m will be too high.

The Kenyan economists can avail their info publicly for all of us to see and understand the project viability and legal backing.

Also, the economists can give us info on the net effect to Kenya economy when Govt uses tax payer money to buy land then subdivide and resell the same land to its citizens.

This attracts consultancy costs and other associated costs.
As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
murchr
#92 Posted : Monday, April 09, 2012 6:18:59 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
a4architect.com wrote:
@ murchr..Konza is a viable real estate project if audited well.

Konza City in simple terms is Ministry of Info buying land 5000 ac using tax payer money, subdividing into smaller portions and allocating investors at a cost.

The investors then build as per the zoning regulations set out in within the 5000 acre Konza city.

This is similar to the Tatu city model.

Investors then control the quality,cost and financing of construction of their buildings within their purchased land.

The area is viable for such a real estate project due to proximity to Nairobi,Mombasa road, Airport and railway.

Since land has already been bought, allocating the same land needs to be done within Best Practice eg Public Procurement and Disposal Act.

As to ICT Viability, i leave this to ICT experts to expound.

My hope is that Ministry of Information can update the Konza city site with info on the below.

1. The contract details between Ministry of info and Worldbank/IFC and London Engineers.

2. How the KES 800B cost is arrived at since GoK has already funded kes 1 B for the land and investors will fund their own construction.

2. Methodology to ensure land allocation will be above board since competition for land worth 200k per acre in an area where land is costing 4m will be too high.

The Kenyan economists can avail their info publicly for all of us to see and understand the project viability and legal backing.

Also, the economists can give us info on the net effect to Kenya economy when Govt uses tax payer money to buy land then subdivide and resell the same land to its citizens.

This attracts consultancy costs and other associated costs.


First, its $8B secondly the project implementation will be done in 3 phases and is spread to the year 2030, third...when the proposal was submitted, the involved ministries (communication, finance and science and tech) were asked to look for land as to where they would want the project to be and they chose konza reasons best known to them, anyway we pay them for that. The land was acquired and will be sold cheaply to the investors.

Look at Konza city as an EPZ and not the way u see any other city in the country. If you listen to Prof Kiamba in his interview with jeff you might have some answers to your questions.

On land allocations, the Ministry wanted it to be on a first come first serve basis, but the AG wanted it to be on highest bidder, seems wamekuwa wengi, well....i don't know what they settled on. If you go to the Ps's office u shall get all the info u want, nothing is hidden
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
a4architect.com
#93 Posted : Monday, April 09, 2012 6:50:06 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 1/4/2010
Posts: 1,668
Location: nairobi
@ Murchr..Konza is a perfect location for a new city-i have no issues with the location or viability as a real estate venture.

In a real estate venture, a successful project is the one that creates profits for the owner i.e buy at 1m and sell at 3m, making 2m profit eg Tatu.

In Konza, the client is Ministry of Information[tax payer money].
The profit is made from the same tax payers hence zero sum[unless foreigners buy].



I remember Prof.Kiamba in the days of ADD[University of Nairobi]. He is a brilliant land economist. I will look for the youtube.

From the Land Economist/Architect real estate point of view, Konza is a successful project.

What i need to hear from is a Financial Economist.

Someone who understands economics from a financial monetary govt revenue tax point of view.

When a Govt buys land using tax payer money then sells to its citizens, this is a zero sum.
Kenyan buyers such as individuals ,SACCOS, institutions are an esy sale and are easily convinced since they rarely carry out detailed feasibilities in buying land.

Value to the tax payer is found when the Govt sells to foreigners at a higher cost than it sold.

The paradox is in convincing foreigners to buy at high land prices. They mostly can afford all sorts of consultants to advice them on feasibility so they are rarely naive. They can also afford locations with existing infrastructure such as Sameer Industrial park, Mombasa road,Athi river,Machakos, Westlands, Upper hill e.t.c

On the issue of land allocation method, it would be better/convenient for Ministry of Information to post such information on the Konza website instead of physical request. Ditto to info on Worldbank/IFC and london engineers.

btw you seem to know details about this Konza project. Do you work for Ministry of Info by any chance?
As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
murchr
#94 Posted : Monday, April 09, 2012 7:00:59 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
a4architect.com wrote:
@ Murchr..Konza is a perfect location for a new city-i have no issues with the location or viability as a real estate venture.

In a real estate venture, a successful project is the one that creates profits for the owner i.e buy at 1m and sell at 3m, making 2m profit eg Tatu.

In Konza, the client is Ministry of Information[tax payer money].
The profit is made from the same tax payers hence zero sum[unless foreigners buy].



I remember Prof.Kiamba in the days of ADD[University of Nairobi]. He is a brilliant land economist. I will look for the youtube.

From the Land Economist/Architect real estate point of view, Konza is a successful project.

What i need to hear from is a Financial Economist.

Someone who understands economics from a financial monetary govt revenue tax point of view.

When a Govt buys land using tax payer money then sells to its citizens, this is a zero sum.
Kenyan buyers such as individuals ,SACCOS, institutions are an esy sale and are easily convinced since they rarely carry out detailed feasibilities in buying land.

Value to the tax payer is found when the Govt sells to foreigners at a higher cost than it sold.


The paradox is in convincing foreigners to buy at high land prices. They mostly can afford all sorts of consultants to advice them on feasibility so they are rarely naive. They can also afford locations with existing infrastructure such as Sameer Industrial park, Mombasa road,Athi river,Machakos, Westlands, Upper hill e.t.c

On the issue of land allocation method, it would be better/convenient for Ministry of Information to post such information on the Konza website instead of physical request. Ditto to info on Worldbank/IFC and london engineers.

btw you seem to know details about this Konza project. Do you work for Ministry of Info by any chance?



That is where ur missing the point. There will be a Konza Development Authority that will oversee the ownership and development of the city.
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
a4architect.com
#95 Posted : Monday, April 09, 2012 7:12:35 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 1/4/2010
Posts: 1,668
Location: nairobi
@murchr...how will the Konza Development Authority ensure that tax payer funded 5000 acre land sold back to to citizens and foreigners does not result into a zero-sum effect at treasury?

When Govt buys the 500acre land at kes 1b using tax payer money then sells back to citizens, this is a zero-sum minus consultancy/running cost fees.

When govt sells to foreigners at a higher cost than it bought, then we can see some revenue addition.

How does the Konza Dev Authority help in this?

Ministry of Finance = Konza Dev Authority = tax payer money = kes 1B.

Ministry of Info is relying on Worldbank/IFC for advisory.

How does this advisory sit within the context of capitalism vis a vis socialism?
As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
murchr
#96 Posted : Monday, April 09, 2012 9:57:17 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
a4architect.com wrote:
@murchr...how will the Konza Development Authority ensure that tax payer funded 5000 acre land sold back to to citizens and foreigners does not result into a zero-sum effect at treasury?

When Govt buys the 500acre land at kes 1b using tax payer money then sells back to citizens, this is a zero-sum minus consultancy/running cost fees.

When govt sells to foreigners at a higher cost than it bought, then we can see some revenue addition.

How does the Konza Dev Authority help in this?

Ministry of Finance = Konza Dev Authority = tax payer money = kes 1B.

Ministry of Info is relying on Worldbank/IFC for advisory.

How does this advisory sit within the context of capitalism vis a vis socialism?


Now someone can write a thesis on this. I guess we have laws in this land and i said...this is not the first project that the WB has funded. I dont know the extend of the mandate of Konza dev authority but what i am aware they will be in control of what comes up in that area.

Remember the govts biggest role is to be an enabler of a conducive environment to do business
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
a4architect.com
#97 Posted : Tuesday, April 10, 2012 7:12:01 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 1/4/2010
Posts: 1,668
Location: nairobi
@ murchr...instead of waiting for someone to write a thesis on this, lets hope that a generous Wazuan conversant with Marxist and Keynesian theories can give us their two cents on this.

Generally, in a capitalist govt like Kenya, Govt should not engage in business e.g buying land and reselling the same land to its citizens.
As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
jonna
#98 Posted : Tuesday, April 10, 2012 1:55:30 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 11/16/2011
Posts: 196
Location: united states of africa
@ a4architect.com
I have been following your comments and those of a few others who are enlightened and am glad that you are creating awareness about this dubiuos project.

Slowly but surely will people awaken.
Energy.
Lolest!
#99 Posted : Tuesday, April 10, 2012 2:31:05 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
While I get the point of those who believe Konza will have no impact on ICT, I do not get @a4architects beef with it. None of the guests on Capital Talk were able to draw a link between the city and ICT growth except where they mentioned that universities have sought space in the city. But is it true that in capitalist economies the state never gets involved directly as it is doing in Konza? There is no such thing as pure capitalism! The state always steps in to provide guidance where free enterprise would ruin the plans set by the state. This will not be a first in real estate. The NHC buys land, develops it and sells it to taxpayers!
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
a4architect.com
#100 Posted : Tuesday, April 10, 2012 5:22:07 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 1/4/2010
Posts: 1,668
Location: nairobi
@LLaughing out loudly...Lets try and dissect Konza from a Jua Kali financial economist's point of view:

1.Ministry of Info buys land using tax payer's kes 1 b.
2. Ministry of Info advertises and hypes the said land.
3.Land price rises from kes 200k per acre to kes 4m per acre.If proper mechanisms in allocating the land are used, the high prices are recouped back to treasury=zero sum.

When someone buys land worth kes 1m at kes 4m, the 3m loss/difference is recouped/gained at treasury while he looses the 3m.
This is a zero sum to treasury/economy.

For a private sector project eg Tatu city, this 3m is termed as profit.

If no proper mechanism in allocation, treasury receives its initial cost minus running costs=negative sum.

The surplus is lost through corruption since investors will still pay market value unofficially, and reserve price officially.

People would have spent more on land that cant reciprocate in utility.The excess instead of being recycled into treasury, gets lost within corruption networks,most probably international,hence more damage to economy.

4.Land price is now high but no infrastructure to assist users recoup profits as in other towns/cities with existing infrastructure e.g Machakos,Kitengela and Nairobi hence productivity is lower in other towns.

5.High land prices without infrastructure lead to high cost of rent/houses/operating business.
6.High cost of houses/operations increases production cost.

7.High production cost reduces competitiveness hence investors loose out/make losses.

8.Investors cant make profits hence pay tax hence Govt looses out on tax revenue since its citizens are producing less.

My explanations above could be right or wrong on why in capitalist governments, govt should not compete with its citizens but i think the reason is that if it does, there will be a zero-sum to treasury.

A financial economist could explain better.

A country makes wealth by trading externally.

Konza city will make business sense by trading externally.
To trade externally, Konza city's costs of production are supposed to be as low as possible e.g China.

In Tatu city and other private sector real estate projects, the risks of loss to the economy are much lower/non-existent.Also, developer is more diligent while buying land to avoid losses when he cant find buyers.
As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
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