@ Masukuma, I agree with some of your sentiments but largely disagree on the role of the state in growth of the economy.

There is a strong convergence of the roles the state has played in the older developed economies and the newly industrialized economies like Singapore. Let us take Singapore as an example:

They gained independence in 1965, after Kenya. The govt embarked on an aggressive role in the development of the economy under the leadership of Lee Kuan Yew. Lee's government opened doors to FDI (with incentives), freed port operations, created an export oriented policy which encouraged labour intensive manufacturing and built a very strong infrastructure- both Human and physical. At the same time, Lee retained some level of democracy through the one party (People's action Party)while at the same time regulated the political dynamics. His government focused on a strong social system that saw the labour unions as part of the governance while at the same time declared strikes for essential services illegal.

Now, while this was happening, Kenyan leadership was allocating itself land, Njenga Karume was running with motions to bar Moi presidency in case Mzee died, the governemnt was promoting corruption while killing those who opposed it. 1974 economic blue print was stuck somewhere in the shelves etc. I can write and write

30 years down the line, you cannot expect the two nations to have anything in common.

What we are demanding as Kenyans is leadership that is focused on the right priorities not according state funerals to the political class.

Why do people have to start counting at independence? Who said that's when any kind of metric deserves to be taken? South Africa was granted independence in 1910. Ethiopia was never colonized. some people like mozambique were properly colonized their grand parents are still named carlos do santos

The government will be involved in the burial preparations for the late veteran politician and entrepreneur, James Njenga Karume, who succumbed to cancer on Friday at Karen Hospital.
http://www.nation.co.ke/...2/-/moufsb/-/index.html
...This is a government that has its priorities upside down...

The government is me and you. Do something about it.

Did Raila say Karume would be given a state send off? I thought he only said that gvt 'would be involved in the funeral arrangements' which could even be provision of security which is granted anyway since govt big shots will be there.

Please note that while we had flags flying half mast for Michuki, there was no such recognition for Karume.

GOK has been involved in the funerals of sitting ministers for as long as I remember.

And no one has answered my question on whether the time from independence is some sort of metric to judge on how developed you are...who said so?

What comes in mind when we discuss independence are the words 'Country', 'Republic' and 'Nation'


- Kenya as a Country is a the 580,000 km squared piece of land somewhere between latitudes 5°N and 5°S, and longitudes 34° and 42°E. it was defined (more or less) in 1920.
- Kenya as a Republic is the system of rule that administrates over the country mentioned above. this is a democratic, representative system of rule. i.e. a sovereign state. independence is the creation of this sovereign state from another! it's the equivalent of being told - JIPANGE! this happened in 1963.
- Kenya as a Nation is the group of people a common language, culture, ethnicity, descent, and/or history that identify themselves as Kenya(this has nothing to do with boundaries) - this has never happened.

So KQ could have existed before 1963 and

They had a sovereign state that chose to do its administrative business in a popular (democratic) representational (republic) manner. In other words, what happened in 1963 was that the people occupying the 580,000 km2 piece of land laying around between latitudes 5°N and 5°S, and longitudes 34° and 42° hitherto governed by the British were to pick our own tab from that point forward. its like a child who has come of age and is chased from the house and told - Jipange!
the success or failure on how this now 'independent' young man chased by the parents 'jitawalas' is determined by 2 things.
1) what was invested in him before then?
2) was he treated like a grown up before he was left to go fend for himself?

this now brings me to the point of, independence as a marker is not important, it could have been 1856 (were we not free men then?). Its how ready we were for the new world.
therefore when comparing ourselves to a huge sea port of Singapore that has as of now only 3 million Singaporeans (they may have been a few hundred thousand then) all living on a small piece of land is lying to ourselves. The population of Kenya at independence was about 7 million. consider Mauritius, we have a larger economy (GDP) than them - but, their GDP per capita is much higher because they are fewer people.

@ Masukuma

''And no one has answered my question on whether the time from independence is some sort of metric to judge on how developed you are...who said so?''


We attained ‘’independence’’, the so called ‘’Self Rule’’ in 1963. We (Africans) are ‘ruling’ ourselves using the former white colonial master’s religion, constitution, education system and even ‘mimicked’’ culture to ‘’develop’’. We are judging how far we have come or ‘’developed’’ to a ‘’westernized –first-world-country’’ and 1963 is the ground zero since that’s when they ‘left’

e..g Have we built any railway network, bridge, dam or major highway since ‘they’ left in 1963? That can be a metric to measure our transport ‘development’. We built Turkwell Gorge – that is our ‘development’- A white elephant riddled with corruption.

Pia the Japanese can use the Hiroshima Atomic Bombs as a metric on how far they have come. Au sio?

In truth, are we really independent? We replaced one colonial master with another rabid homegrown monster.

Economically, we are still colonized; When the Dollar sneezes in Washington, our Shilling gets pneumonia and huffs and puffs like an arthritic Gorilla huko Congo forest where nasikia Okuyo’s were spotted in another thread.

In the African Context, is ‘Development’ really achievable without the Whites? Maybe the Black Man is inherently and genetically ‘anti-development’?

Look at our black brothers in Haiti- they are as ‘developed’ as any other rural African village deep in Lubumbashi. Ditto the New Orleans blacks, wanasukumwa mbele by thorax through accident of Geography.

Racist? No.

I don’t need to borrow Makau Mutua’s crystal ball to predict that our next major ‘’development’ project; The Lamu Port and Lamu Southern Sudan-Ethiopia Transport Corridor (LAPSSET), will be riddled with GRAND CORRUPTION, THEFT and endless POLITICKING. It is a Sh 2 trillion port project; In an election year, with our MPIGs in charge- The same Y2K 92’, Goldenburg, Anglo Leasing lot…….

Everyone has their culture and culture is not stagnant! the white man's religion was previously a Jewish sect and now has become ours as the whiteman heads towards Wicca. Culture like any other thing moves around. Geometry from Egypt, calculus from Greece e.t.c. there is nothing wrong with finding something that works from other cultures and taking it - that's called being wide! read your history, our black brothers in haiti we dehumanized by the French - same thing as congo (Lubumbashi) it takes time for people to recover (look at our black brothers in the US or even the American Indians - right within the greatest nation in the world but still failing to 'click'). The Japanese cannot use Hiroshima as a starting point, since they were a powerful nation way before that its only that Nagasaki and Hiroshima were flattened, they had jets and torpedoes that pelekad the US mbio, they had colonies in south east asia. So unless the bomb had the effect of wiping their culture and education and all their technology - then maybe we could consider that point. The Japanese also for quite sometime had their backs covered by the US and thus did not have to spend on defence. Africa in the 60's as far as western educational systems are concerned was no where near any of those countries you are talking about. We have still not yet reached those levels of education now. A tree must be climbed from the bottom!
Is the African mind 'anti-development' - no!, Why do I say so? Do we as individuals improve our own lives? Yes. Do poor people improve their lives? yes. but somehow we have been lied to that if it doesn't work there its someone else's fault.
Read my signature, during colonialism we were conditioned to produce stuff that we did not drink (tea and coffee), Liberia was conditioned to make rubber for cars they did not drive. we have been conditioned to buy the best of the cars in Europe and the US as status symbols, while the Indians pride themselves with a 1 Lahk Ruppee car! Can Kenyans buy Kenyans ama we have accepted the lie that 'cheap is expensive' lets buy BMWs and remain in the control of the white man. until we believe that its only us who can change our fate and that we have what it takes and that there are no hard and fast rules to development nor a single superior model to copy then...otherwise we will be on this forum 50 years from now blaming people.
What was colonialism? Kenyans have misused that term without knowing the meaning. During colonialism many things happened including the killing of culture by a 'superior' culture. The same thing is happening now (and not only to us but world wide) - our English is more like the US (based on our programming) in the 80s it was more like the British (due to the programming).
What is independence? Independence is simply being able to make your own decisions whether wise or otherwise. We are independent! are some of those decisions forced - yes, but we make them. what happened in 1963 was exactly that - make your own decisions - you have no one else to blame but yourself.
about the Lamu port - wacha ijengwe, wacha pesa iibwe! so that we take a step forward.