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Hardtalk: state funerals
Rank: Elder Joined: 3/31/2008 Posts: 7,081 Location: Kenya
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Hardtalk: State funerals Let me be clear right from the start. I respect dead people and this does not in way refer to any dead person specifically. I am just asking a moral question. Should the government be bankrolling funerals for ministers?
What does the law say? As best as I know it is only the president and his two assistants who should enjoy this. Others who have distinguished themselves in certain fields, both at home and abroad, should also be recognized and given a state send off. Wangari Maathai is a good example. Why should the government pay for funeral services of men who have amassed such huge wealth when IDPs are suffering in the camps? When children in Ukambani sit under trees for lack of classrooms, when men and women in Kakamega and elsewhere can’t walk because their feet have been ravaged by jiggers? Does anyone ever bother to know how those who die in the IDP camps are buried?
I have heard many say that Hon. Michuki transformed our transport sector. Did you know that he was on a monthly salary to do that? He just did what he was supposed to do and if I was to appraise his performance at the end of the year, I would give him an A. If anything he should have been accountable for what he did which he was not supposed to do. The raid at KTN by the Artur brothers in his efforts to stifle freedom of the media is a case in point.
My point is that tax payers’ money is used to pay ministers to work. If families of ministers feel that they should not use the wealth left by the deceased to give him a proper send off, they should hire some space at Garden Square like everybody else to collect money for a proper send off but not ask the government to finance their funeral. Here we are setting a very bad precedence. What criteria will be used to determine who gets a state send-off? Or does it mean that all seating ministers will get a state send-off?
I know I am treading on a topic regarded as a taboo to discuss. But I am not scared of death. When God feels that my time on earth is over, I will go and it does not matter whether I will be buried in a sack or in a gold casket. I know MPs can’t dare debate this in parliament for reasons they best know.
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/24/2011 Posts: 833
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thanks Magigi, you are one Kenyan in touch with reality and can see the hypocrisies in this sham govt. The twin deaths of Kibaki's allies has exposed the hypocrisy in the govt yeat again and our society in general. I wonder when I see people trotting to praise any dead person while they are fully aware they contributed significantly to the mess that Kenya is today. Michuki was a DC for heavens' sake in the colonial govt and now he s praised as a nationalist. He supplied seatbelts and speed governors when he allegedly turned around the matatu industry for his gain but all we see now is a saint whose funeral we are going to pay for. .... who will wake up Kenyans?
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/17/2009 Posts: 2,040 Location: GA
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michuki will even get a gun salute and he was enviroment minister we live it to the historians
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Rank: Member Joined: 6/18/2008 Posts: 353
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/28/2008 Posts: 2,276 Location: Kibish
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Some animals are more equal than others. Nadondosha meli kubwa seuze ngalawa!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,823 Location: Nairobi
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Magigi wrote:Hardtalk: State funerals Let me be clear right from the start. I respect dead people and this does not in way refer to any dead person specifically. I am just asking a moral question. Should the government be bankrolling funerals for ministers? What does the law say? As best as I know it is only the president and his two assistants who should enjoy this. Others who have distinguished themselves in certain fields, both at home and abroad, should also be recognized and given a state send off. Wangari Maathai is a good example. Why should the government pay for funeral services of men who have amassed such huge wealth when IDPs are suffering in the camps? When children in Ukambani sit under trees for lack of classrooms, when men and women in Kakamega and elsewhere can’t walk because their feet have been ravaged by jiggers? Does anyone ever bother to know how those who die in the IDP camps are buried? I have heard many say that Hon. Michuki transformed our transport sector. Did you know that he was on a monthly salary to do that? He just did what he was supposed to do and if I was to appraise his performance at the end of the year, I would give him an A. If anything he should have been accountable for what he did which he was not supposed to do. The raid at KTN by the Artur brothers in his efforts to stifle freedom of the media is a case in point. My point is that tax payers’ money is used to pay ministers to work. If families of ministers feel that they should not use the wealth left by the deceased to give him a proper send off, they should hire some space at Garden Square like everybody else to collect money for a proper send off but not ask the government to finance their funeral. Here we are setting a very bad precedence. What criteria will be used to determine who gets a state send-off? Or does it mean that all seating ministers will get a state send-off? I know I am treading on a topic regarded as a taboo to discuss. But I am not scared of death. When God feels that my time on earth is over, I will go and it does not matter whether I will be buried in a sack or in a gold casket. I know MPs can’t dare debate this in parliament for reasons they best know.
well - says who? Who says the likes of Wangari Maathai should be afforded a state funeral? Who? and Why? why the president even then? Why? its all a subjective discussion. Remember, funerals do not benefit the dead! its for the living to say bye to their beloved. the dead are not concerned with funerals, they don't care whether they are cremated or eaten by dogs - they are DEAD. its all for us living people to get to terms with the death of our loved one. thus its an emotional decision (subjective) on the part of the decision makers. the law does not dictate that. Kwani 21 gun salute ni nini? ama ni hasara ya risasi ishirini na moja unalilia? All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,823 Location: Nairobi
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pariah wrote:thanks Magigi, you are one Kenyan in touch with reality and can see the hypocrisies in this sham govt. The twin deaths of Kibaki's allies has exposed the hypocrisy in the govt yeat again and our society in general. I wonder when I see people trotting to praise any dead person while they are fully aware they contributed significantly to the mess that Kenya is today. Michuki was a DC for heavens' sake in the colonial govt and now he s praised as a nationalist. He supplied seatbelts and speed governors when he allegedly turned around the matatu industry for his gain but all we see now is a saint whose funeral we are going to pay for. .... who will wake up Kenyans? I can see you are inline with the popular myth promoted by kenyatta... "Uhuru tulipigania ama tulipewa?"...TULIPEWA... the people you attribute with "nyakua-ring" had already been sorted out by 1956 and the leader of the struggle killed and buried in a grave that we have not discovered until now. The maumau resistance resulted in the deaths of 70 settlers and thousands of Africans before it was quelled. the US is the only country that "Nyakuwa-d" uhuru from the "mgereza". Uhuru was being given to colonies after world war 2 and the beginning of the cold war. we did not even need to fight, we would have gotten independence none the less - who fought for Ghanian independence? considering they got it 8 years before us! I think the legend of the maumau is nice to tell to our kids. it falls within the requirement that a nation forms a common narrative for uniting its future citizens (that narrative does not have to be 100% true)...its not unique to us (http://fsi.stanford.edu/events/confronting_the_yugoslav_controversies_can_scholars_make_a_difference/) everyone does it :) All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/24/2011 Posts: 833
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i am more concerned on praising JNM as a saint when he was only human, ewe should appraise him accordingly not gloss over facts, whichever way Uhuru was given, he was an enforcer for the mkoloni, he was part of the kanu system, he was a key cog of the kibaki tribal cabal that got us in a fix in 2008, he raided the standard, killed Mungiki.... along with other good things you may have to say about the good mzee
thats all i am saying,
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,823 Location: Nairobi
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pariah wrote:i am more concerned on praising JNM as a saint when he was only human, ewe should appraise him accordingly not gloss over facts, whichever way Uhuru was given, he was an enforcer for the mkoloni, he was part of the kanu system, he was a key cog of the kibaki tribal cabal that got us in a fix in 2008, he raided the standard, killed Mungiki.... along with other good things you may have to say about the good mzee
thats all i am saying, well...these are good things he did if you ask me! All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/24/2011 Posts: 833
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masukuma wrote:pariah wrote:i am more concerned on praising JNM as a saint when he was only human, ewe should appraise him accordingly not gloss over facts, whichever way Uhuru was given, he was an enforcer for the mkoloni, he was part of the kanu system, he was a key cog of the kibaki tribal cabal that got us in a fix in 2008, he raided the standard, killed Mungiki.... along with other good things you may have to say about the good mzee
thats all i am saying, well...these are good things he did if you ask me! i already know they are good for some people, i posted to address the others who dint think so, thanks for confirming anyway
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