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Is Real Estate Investment For Lazy People ?
young
#1 Posted : Friday, February 24, 2012 5:29:03 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2007
Posts: 2,037
Location: Lagos, Nigeria
Simply put the simplest way to make money in black africa without much effort is in real estate as long as you have done your due diligence. Just buy and go to sleep, few years after the price just balloons.

This might not be a general statement because it depends on which segment you are playing
. Is it the upscale market, the emerging suburbs, the wholesale / commercial segment, the story in most cases is still the same. There are strong arguements about likely property bubble as they say what goes up must always come down. But I do not see this happening in emerging suburbs as every sub saharan Black african country has a huge housing deficit in the urban and sub urban areas. Be it my country Nigeria, Ghana, Kenya or even Uganda, or Rwanda the available statistics points to the same thing, mass housing deficit that is growing exponentially.

Yours trully has been involved in not less than two dozen land transactions in the past 3 years, and suprisely none of them had dropped in price below the cost price quite unlike stocks.
I do not need to crack my brain about fundamentals and technical analysis. I only concern myself with the almighty formula in real estate investment LID:-

L LOCATION
I INFRASTRUCTURE
D DEMAND


The only set back in property investment is that it is not liquid. Most often it takes time to sale. You can have a 50 million bob worth of real estate holding but you may not have up to 5K cash. That is why is is absolutely necessary to leverage on stocks and other finsancial instruments
The wazua spirit as members is to educate and inform and learn from others within the limit of what we know in any chosen area irrespective of our differences in tribes, nationalities, etc. .
For Sport
#2 Posted : Friday, February 24, 2012 6:02:08 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 12/23/2010
Posts: 1,229
I love real estate as an investment.. maybe its because I'm kind of lazy or maybe because it has worked for me over the years.

Real estate is good for consolidating gains from other sources of income or investments.
Jamani
#3 Posted : Friday, February 24, 2012 9:52:32 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/12/2006
Posts: 1,554
Is Real Estate Investment For Lazy People ? put it differently would you say people like Donald Trump are lazy? it takes effort, strategic thinking and a focused mind to know where and when to buy, at what price and when to exit with a profit, ... now that will not be a lazy person but a focused strategic thinker, who knows how to scout for investment and timing to exit.... and yeah just like in any investment lazy people also try.....
osa2
#4 Posted : Saturday, February 25, 2012 12:41:00 AM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 2/5/2010
Posts: 54
Location: USA
@ Jamani,Donald Trump and other real estate investors add value by "strategic thinking and a focused mind". They dont speculate through buying by the feet and selling by the inches without any value addition.
simplicity
#5 Posted : Saturday, February 25, 2012 1:23:38 AM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 1/9/2010
Posts: 34
Location: US
Hate to burst anyones love or admiration for Donald Trump but unlike Kenya, the U.S has a very linient or bent system for that matter. People like Donald Trump are able to borrow money, file for Chapter 11 Bankrupcy, sit a few years and as soon as his credit is fixed, jump back like a new investor and buy more stuff and retain the ones from the bad loans with protection from the government. You don't believe me go online and see how many times the guy has filed for bankrupcy.


On the flip side if you try that crap in Kenya, auctioneers will auction everything including your smelly socks.

That being said, real estate is a good investment. The way I look at it is if you buy a 2.5m unit in Kenya and pay it off, you will have rent of 16k (+ Rent appreciation) or more a month for the rest of your life. It gets better, your kids inherit it after you kick teh basket and continue reaping the fruits and remembering you for your sweat and that can continue for generations. You can never beat that. If you get blessed and buy a 10M or better off a 16M one in an affluent area the income for you and generations to come will even be higher.

Reduce on the bottle and invest in a unit and I promise you it becomes addictive once you buy the first one.


Trumps 5 Bankruptcies:

http://www.mademan.com/m...p-filed-bankruptcy.html
young
#6 Posted : Saturday, February 25, 2012 4:56:10 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2007
Posts: 2,037
Location: Lagos, Nigeria
My opinion is based on the fact that you require far less effort to grow your real estate portfolio quite unlike stocks.
I am referring to sub-saharan Africa terrain. Global recession affected our stocks, but there was minimal or no impact on real estate.
The wazua spirit as members is to educate and inform and learn from others within the limit of what we know in any chosen area irrespective of our differences in tribes, nationalities, etc. .
guru267
#7 Posted : Saturday, February 25, 2012 6:04:03 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
simplicity wrote:
The way I look at it is if you buy a 2.5m unit in Kenya and pay it off, you will have rent of 16k (+ Rent appreciation) or more a month for the rest of your life. It gets better, your kids inherit it after you kick teh basket and continue reaping the fruits and remembering you for your sweat and that can continue for generations. You can never beat that.


Since you are talking about holding investments for life and passing them down, wouldn't it be much easier to buy bluechip stocks for this purpose and avoid the maintenance cost that comes with owning a rental unit¿¿

Based on returns of 16k per month it equates to a return of 192k per annum on your 2.5million investment... This is before deducting maintenance cost of your unit

If you invested this 2.5m in blue chipz your return in terms of dividends would be:
1. BAT = 250k p.a and 20.8k per month
2. BBK = 215k p.a and 18k per month
3. STANCHRT = 215k p.a and 18k per month
etc etc..

Statistics show that equity returns trump real estate over the very long term (30 years) by a very significant margin.. Whats even better is they require zero maintenance once the selection process is complete...




Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
itz
#8 Posted : Saturday, February 25, 2012 6:30:02 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 3/20/2009
Posts: 348
guru267 wrote:
simplicity wrote:
The way I look at it is if you buy a 2.5m unit in Kenya and pay it off, you will have rent of 16k (+ Rent appreciation) or more a month for the rest of your life. It gets better, your kids inherit it after you kick teh basket and continue reaping the fruits and remembering you for your sweat and that can continue for generations. You can never beat that.


Since you are talking about holding investments for life and passing them down, wouldn't it be much easier to buy bluechip stocks for this purpose and avoid the maintenance cost that comes with owning a rental unit¿¿

Based on returns of 16k per month it equates to a return of 192k per annum on your 2.5million investment... This is before deducting maintenance cost of your unit

If you invested this 2.5m in blue chipz your return in terms of dividends would be:
1. BAT = 250k p.a and 20.8k per month
2. BBK = 215k p.a and 18k per month
3. STANCHRT = 215k p.a and 18k per month
etc etc..

Statistics show that equity returns trump real estate over the very long term (30 years) by a very significant margin.. Whats even better is they require zero maintenance once the selection process is complete...






@guru267 you are right.i have always believed equities outperform any other asset class in the long run,however for the kenyan real estate and to an extent africa over the last lets say 20 years there is no comparison;real estate wins hands down compared to kenyan equities.for example i know someone(old man) who bought land in 82 for 150k and cashed out last yr for 52mil.this equates to a 22% year return over 30yrs of which i dont think any stock in kenya has returned.in foreign equity markets this has been possible for a guy like Warren Buffet (and many others) who has averaged 19% since i think the 50s.With all that said,real estate in kenya will not perform or give this kind of returns in the future,good kenyan companies will give this kind of returns in the future and thats why i advice chamaz and investors to take it easy on the plots and buy shares instead for the long term
Jamani
#9 Posted : Saturday, February 25, 2012 6:35:08 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/12/2006
Posts: 1,554
@osa2 & simplicity the question was is real estate for lazy people? my answer was no it is not but even the lazy people try to invest in any kind of business,, as you say DT files for bankruptcy every time, it takes a sharp mind to learn the loop holes and work through the system not a lazy one... and that does mean i support his crafty ways...
@guru.... i agree with you fully....
young
#10 Posted : Saturday, February 25, 2012 9:57:17 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2007
Posts: 2,037
Location: Lagos, Nigeria
guru267 wrote:
simplicity wrote:
The way I look at it is if you buy a 2.5m unit in Kenya and pay it off, you will have rent of 16k (+ Rent appreciation) or more a month for the rest of your life. It gets better, your kids inherit it after you kick teh basket and continue reaping the fruits and remembering you for your sweat and that can continue for generations. You can never beat that.


Since you are talking about holding investments for life and passing them down, wouldn't it be much easier to buy bluechip stocks for this purpose and avoid the maintenance cost that comes with owning a rental unit¿¿

Based on returns of 16k per month it equates to a return of 192k per annum on your 2.5million investment... This is before deducting maintenance cost of your unit

If you invested this 2.5m in blue chipz your return in terms of dividends would be:
1. BAT = 250k p.a and 20.8k per month
2. BBK = 215k p.a and 18k per month
3. STANCHRT = 215k p.a and 18k per month
etc etc..

Statistics show that equity returns trump real estate over the very long term (30 years) by a very significant margin.. Whats even better is they require zero maintenance once the selection process is complete...







Where I totally disagree with @guru analogy she is looking at the 2.5M capital deployed in face value that is only what it returns but not only what it grows into over time. The value of the property will continue to rise consistently full time without any value added but stocks value is subject to fluctuations either up or down.
However @guru as a stock analyst it is impossible to predict the effect of external influences on the value of stocks in this part of the world. A stock can return salutary results but the value remains static we have seen that severally in different markets.
The main subject matter of this thread is the ease in which one can make gains or grow his portfolio in real estate in a very consistent and predictable way quite unlike stocks and other asset classes.
Here practical experience
counts not theories.

I always advise new entrants to investment do not be all out for stocks which looks enticing. Balance it with real estate as a leverage. On the flip side do not be all out on real estate because of liquidity problems, balance t with stocks for a leverage.
The wazua spirit as members is to educate and inform and learn from others within the limit of what we know in any chosen area irrespective of our differences in tribes, nationalities, etc. .
itz
#11 Posted : Saturday, February 25, 2012 4:14:11 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 3/20/2009
Posts: 348
young wrote:
guru267 wrote:
simplicity wrote:
The way I look at it is if you buy a 2.5m unit in Kenya and pay it off, you will have rent of 16k (+ Rent appreciation) or more a month for the rest of your life. It gets better, your kids inherit it after you kick teh basket and continue reaping the fruits and remembering you for your sweat and that can continue for generations. You can never beat that.


Since you are talking about holding investments for life and passing them down, wouldn't it be much easier to buy bluechip stocks for this purpose and avoid the maintenance cost that comes with owning a rental unit¿¿

Based on returns of 16k per month it equates to a return of 192k per annum on your 2.5million investment... This is before deducting maintenance cost of your unit

If you invested this 2.5m in blue chipz your return in terms of dividends would be:
1. BAT = 250k p.a and 20.8k per month
2. BBK = 215k p.a and 18k per month
3. STANCHRT = 215k p.a and 18k per month
etc etc..

Statistics show that equity returns trump real estate over the very long term (30 years) by a very significant margin.. Whats even better is they require zero maintenance once the selection process is complete...







Where I totally disagree with @guru analogy she is looking at the 2.5M capital deployed in face value that is only what it returns but not only what it grows into over time. The value of the property will continue to rise consistently full time without any value added but stocks value is subject to fluctuations either up or down.
However @guru as a stock analyst it is impossible to predict the effect of external influences on the value of stocks in this part of the world. A stock can return salutary results but the value remains static we have seen that severally in different markets.
The main subject matter of this thread is the ease in which one can make gains or grow his portfolio in real estate in a very consistent and predictable way quite unlike stocks and other asset classes.
Here practical experience
counts not theories.

I always advise new entrants to investment do not be all out for stocks which looks enticing. Balance it with real estate as a leverage. On the flip side do not be all out on real estate because of liquidity problems, balance t with stocks for a leverage.


@young.am sure you know real estate goes with cycles just like the markets.it is very important at what point you enter that cycle.if you enter at the top then it stagnates or goes down you wait a long time to recoup your investment and make money.Question is what part of the cycle is real estate in and what part of the cycle is the market in.I think you are in the couple last innings in real estate and in the early innings in market to use a baseball analogy.
Gordon Gekko
#12 Posted : Saturday, February 25, 2012 4:43:06 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 5/27/2008
Posts: 3,760
@itz, I thought innings is a cricket term, not a baseball onesmile

On real estate and equity, rent income is subject to 30% tax in Kenya while dividends are only subjected to 5% if you are a local investor. So in my books equity outperforms real estate.

To answer the question @young, real estate is not for lazy people, but for passive investors, those who have no time to keep an eye on reuters and rick.co.ke
itz
#13 Posted : Saturday, February 25, 2012 5:00:38 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 3/20/2009
Posts: 348
Gordon Gekko wrote:
@itz, I thought innings is a cricket term, not a baseball onesmile

On real estate and equity, rent income is subject to 30% tax in Kenya while dividends are only subjected to 5% if you are a local investor. So in my books equity outperforms real estate.

To answer the question @young, real estate is not for lazy people, but for passive investors, those who have no time to keep an eye on reuters and rick.co.ke

@Gordon Gekko http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Innings i guess you learned something new todaysmile
muganda
#14 Posted : Wednesday, February 29, 2012 10:28:25 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/15/2006
Posts: 3,905
Well @young, another older man agrees with you. We may need to differentiate between 'land' (lazy) in our setting and 'real estate' (productive). He states:

1. Currency based investments like cash, bonds, money market funds, bank deposits are safe but often do not beat inflation especially after factoring in personal income tax each year (say 30%)

2. Lazy assets or assets that do not produce anything like gold, land, (or Tulips in the 17c). This type of investment requires an expanding pool of buyers, who, in turn, are enticed becuase they believe the buying pool will expand still further. Owners are not inspired by what the asset itself can produce but rather by the belief that others will desire it even more avidly in the future.

3. Productive assets whether shares, businesses, farms, or real estate. Ideally, these assets should have the ability in inflationary times to deliver OUTPUT while retaining its purchasing-power value.

http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/...hire-shareholder-letter/

Marty
#15 Posted : Friday, March 02, 2012 7:27:34 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 3/31/2008
Posts: 761
Location: Nairobi
I am realtor and I think the biggest problem with most real estate investors is investing for capital gain as opposed to investing for cash flow purposes. Majority face liquidity issues but a wise real estate investor must consider investing for purposes of cash flow. I'd also say that a good investor can actually invest in any vehicle and make money.

One distinct advanatage real estate has over stocks is control. with stocks, the performance of a particular counter is depended on other people somewhere unless you are a majority shareholder or a decision maker for the said company. When I do my real estate ventures am 100% in control and will most likely influence my direction, simply put I got control.

Real estate is never for lazy people. I put in a lot of time and effort and that places me head over shoulders above speculators/ passive investors who buy plots and go to sleep awaiting capital gain.
When I admire the wonder of a sunset or the beauty
of the moon, my soul expands in worship of the Creator.
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