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The truth about 14 seater Matatu phase out
tuvok
#21 Posted : Wednesday, February 22, 2012 10:25:23 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 5/2/2007
Posts: 536
mmarto wrote:


Commuting in such cities is easy and possible because there is a working transport system. Do we have any here? We should not attempt to copy what works elsewhere without considering all the factors.



True: There's many factors.

Working Mass Transit System vs what passed to be a public transit system in Kenya but in reality is a profit making venture that only has money making as its end. From what I've read, most countries with working mass transit system have this as either a govt/county run venture, or a private/public venture. That way some basic parameters like scheduling and discipline can be streamlined.

I think if we had an efficient and reliable transport network in Kenya, far less people would opt to drive.

We also have a problem with the enforcement of traffic rules on the roads. Really what's so hard with keeping to ones lane on a roundabout? If something as basic as that was enforced and done so regularly, with other rules enforced as well for all (including those GK and diplomatic types), we would probably have better traffic flow instead of the growing anarchy on our roads. nkt!

The other issue would be maintenance. I'm sure if you drive at night on Uhuru highway tonight, you would struggle to see some of the lane markings.
Mainat
#22 Posted : Wednesday, February 22, 2012 10:30:16 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/21/2006
Posts: 1,590
Economically,mats don't make sense. PSVs especially big ones, can be run profitably. And lets face it, when u are with lunatics like many mat drivers, u have to adapt.
Sehemu ndio nyumba
alustaadh
#23 Posted : Wednesday, February 22, 2012 11:18:49 AM
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Joined: 11/6/2010
Posts: 222
Location: NAMANGA
Mainat wrote:
Economically,mats don't make sense. PSVs especially big ones, can be run profitably. And lets face it, when u are with lunatics like many mat drivers, u have to adapt.

kenya bus, bus track, stage coach, habib liners, nyayo bus. all these were not operating 14 seaters
It is humiliating to be associated with thieves and murderers.
jaggernaut
#24 Posted : Wednesday, February 22, 2012 11:48:00 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/9/2008
Posts: 5,389
Could we learn something from London?

Transport in London

Quote:
Transport for London (TfL) manages the London bus system by tendering out routes to private companies. This means that TfL set the routes, frequencies, fares and even the type of vehicle used, and companies bid to run these services for a fixed price for several years, with incentives and penalties in place to encourage good performance against certain criteria.

All London taxicabs are licensed by TfL, who also set taxicab fares along with strict maximum vehicle emission standards. Black cabs can be hailed on the street or hired from a taxicab rank. Taxicab fares are set by TfL and are calculated using a Taximeter in the vehicle (hence the name 'Taxicab') and are calculated using a combination of distance travelled and time.
Private Hire Vehicles (PHVs or minicabs) are cars which are not licensed to pick people up on the street. They must always be booked in advance by phone or at the operators offices. Anyone asking you if you want a 'Taxi' who is stood next to a normal looking car is a tout who is not insured or licensed to carry passengers.
hindi ni riu
#25 Posted : Thursday, February 23, 2012 10:39:32 AM
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Joined: 5/2/2010
Posts: 305
Some decisions have to be made, might hurt at first, but if the benefits outweigh the perceived costs...its only logical to go ahead and implement. Actually,...some routes that have seen the increase in buses have seen a drastic (as much as 50%) reduction in fares. Thats a direst benefit to the common mwananchi.Of course if I own a matatu, I'd be on the fronline complaining!

“Once the last tree is cut and the last river poisoned,you will find you cannot eat your money" Traditional saying.
alustaadh
#26 Posted : Thursday, February 23, 2012 11:10:27 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/6/2010
Posts: 222
Location: NAMANGA
hindi ni riu wrote:
Some decisions have to be made, might hurt at first, but if the benefits outweigh the perceived costs...its only logical to go ahead and implement. Actually,...some routes that have seen the increase in buses have seen a drastic (as much as 50%) reduction in fares. Thats a direst benefit to the common mwananchi.Of course if I own a matatu, I'd be on the fronline complaining!

to lure customers, buses opt to undercut on fares. but where competition is minimal differences in fares is 10 bob
It is humiliating to be associated with thieves and murderers.
kollabo
#27 Posted : Thursday, February 23, 2012 11:13:12 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 2/3/2012
Posts: 1,317
mwenza wrote:
kyt wrote:
the only way ease traffic jam is do away with private vehicles in nairobi. but who can dare propose that?



This, unfortunately, is the truth.



That is neither practical nor logical. Major cities around the world have managed the situation by offering efficient, comfortable and affordable transport systems.

Example Rio and Sao Paulo have entered into PPP with investors to offer good quality, on-time transportation that is used by both middle class and low class. If we can get good, clean, comfortable and reliable buses middle class will leave their cars at home.

As things stand now NBI's middle class will be caught dead riding in 14 seaters.

My suggestion is GOK/NCC to auction 5 or 6 licences to exclusively run rapid transport in the City with supervision on quality, regulations etc. Just like CCK does with mobile industry.
jaggernaut
#28 Posted : Thursday, February 23, 2012 12:33:58 PM
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Joined: 10/9/2008
Posts: 5,389
And talking about buses, how come our companies cannot design modern and comfortable buses like those in developed countries?



Dash
#29 Posted : Thursday, February 23, 2012 12:38:33 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 3/24/2010
Posts: 677
Location: Nairobi
jaggernaut wrote:
And talking about buses, how come our companies cannot design modern and comfortable buses like those in developed countries?



Manze these roads of ours (eastleigh for example) the nice looking bus up there will break into pieces. But its a good idea because some of these buses we have in terms of comfort..Pray


Lolest!
#30 Posted : Thursday, February 23, 2012 12:39:34 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
kollabo wrote:
mwenza wrote:
kyt wrote:
the only way ease traffic jam is do away with private vehicles in nairobi. but who can dare propose that?



This, unfortunately, is the truth.



That is neither practical nor logical. Major cities around the world have managed the situation by offering efficient, comfortable and affordable transport systems.

Example Rio and Sao Paulo have entered into PPP with investors to offer good quality, on-time transportation that is used by both middle class and low class. If we can get good, clean, comfortable and reliable buses middle class will leave their cars at home.

As things stand now NBI's middle class will be caught dead riding in 14 seaters.

My suggestion is GOK/NCC to auction 5 or 6 licences to exclusively run rapid transport in the City with supervision on quality, regulations etc. Just like CCK does with mobile industry.

I like your ideas but I don't think Kenyans will just give up driving their Toyotas just because there is an efficient transportation system. The private car is a status symbol and offers far greater convenience than the most efficient public transport system.

There has to be a deterring cost for private vehicle owners driving into town or else we will only deal with half the problem.
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
jaggernaut
#31 Posted : Thursday, February 23, 2012 12:51:56 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/9/2008
Posts: 5,389
Dash wrote:
jaggernaut wrote:
And talking about buses, how come our companies cannot design modern and comfortable buses like those in developed countries?



Manze these roads of ours (eastleigh for example) the nice looking bus up there will break into pieces. But its a good idea because some of these buses we have in terms of comfort..Pray




That's just a perception. That's what they used to say about used cars imported from Japan....that would not cope with Kenyan roads. Right now all the major roads are very smooth i.e. Mombasa rd, Thika, Langata, Ngong, Westlands etc. So breaking into pieces is not an issue if the Vitz, Probox, premios are still going strong on our roads.
2012
#32 Posted : Thursday, February 23, 2012 1:04:50 PM
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Joined: 12/9/2009
Posts: 6,592
Location: Nairobi
murenj wrote:
Amos the root has finaly confessed: the phase out has nothing to do with traffic jams, but to keep the local motor vehicle manufactures in business. The guy seems not to appreciate that mama mboga is indirectly employed by the matatu sector: with technocrats like these, who needs vision 2030?


I fully support the phase out. Should have happened a long time ago.
The 14 sitters don't even make economic sense. The bigger vehicle will be easier to regulate and inspect for safety. and it's good for traffic as they can't pita katikati as easily. On that note they need tophase out mkokoteni and replace them with tuktuks or some Indian/Chinese pick-ups. I can't stand watching 5 grown men pushing that thing for 200 bob.

Please also note that those mama mbogas we love talking about don't suffer as much as you think. They are excellent sales people plus they pass the entire cost down to you. Try getting her a 'better job' like tea lady or cleaner and she'll laugh at you.

BBI will solve it
:)
Dash
#33 Posted : Thursday, February 23, 2012 1:09:59 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 3/24/2010
Posts: 677
Location: Nairobi
2012 wrote:
murenj wrote:
Amos the root has finaly confessed: the phase out has nothing to do with traffic jams, but to keep the local motor vehicle manufactures in business. The guy seems not to appreciate that mama mboga is indirectly employed by the matatu sector: with technocrats like these, who needs vision 2030?


I fully support the phase out. Should have happened a long time ago.
The 14 sitters don't even make economic sense. The bigger vehicle will be easier to regulate and inspect for safety. and it's good for traffic as they can't pita katikati as easily. On that note they need tophase out mkokoteni and replace them with tuktuks or some Indian/Chinese pick-ups. I can't stand watching 5 grown men pushing that thing for 200 bob.

Please also note that those mama mbogas we love talking about don't suffer as much as you think. They are excellent sales people plus they pass the entire cost down to you. Try getting her a 'better job' like tea lady or cleaner and she'll laugh at you.


Agreed. Many actually fare on very well. Its just that they maintain that mama mboga look. Its a booming business.
Lolest!
#34 Posted : Thursday, February 23, 2012 1:19:12 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
2012 wrote:
On that note they need tophase out mkokoteni and replace them with tuktuks or some Indian/Chinese pick-ups. I can't stand watching 5 grown men pushing that thing for 200 bob.

Some of these mkoko guys are well moneyed too. I know one who graduated inti mikoko hire and will now make some graduates envious of his daily collections.

But Yes, mikokoteni for specified streets only.
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
Crown Berger
#35 Posted : Thursday, February 23, 2012 1:23:46 PM

Rank: Bona-fide


Joined: 2/1/2012
Posts: 24
This whole debate on public transport is as old as modern civilization itself. I think a lot of factor determine what approach works for different countries, from culture to infrastructure to legistlation. Cultutre is a strong influence; We all want to drive our cars.Few of us would even consider car pooling even when it makes perfect sense.

I remember the 80's fondly for the Kenya Bus Service that was so reliable. The buses had specific routes and scheduled departure and arrivals times that would be strictly adhered to regardless of whether the bus was full or not. Its sad that the model failed (i don't know why).

chiaroscuro
#36 Posted : Thursday, February 23, 2012 1:44:47 PM
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Joined: 2/2/2012
Posts: 1,134
Location: Nairobi
mmarto wrote:
the simplest way is to hike those parking fees. charge by the hr and nobody will bring those junks to town. The reason people commute in big cities is the high cost of parking and the tolls charged to enter the city.


Commuting in such cities is easy and possible because there is a working transport system. Do we have any here? We should not attempt to copy what works elsewhere without considering all the factors.




SO what solution are you suggesting?

What exactly do you mean by "working transport system"?

How do we put one in place?
chiaroscuro
#37 Posted : Thursday, February 23, 2012 1:58:09 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 2/2/2012
Posts: 1,134
Location: Nairobi
I will always remember the scene I witnessed one evening a few years ago at the Ambassadeur and route 58 (Accra rd) bus stops. This was during the days of the KBS Metro Shuttle.


At Accra road, there was a long queue of Matatus running all the way back to River Road. Very few passengers and the matatus were charging Sh20 to Buruburu.

At Ambassadeur, there was a long queue of passengers running all the way round the building - down to Ronald Ngala Street and up Tom Mboya st. They were waiting for the Metro Shuttle which was charging Sh40.

Now what does that tell you?

All it takes is a serious businessperson to focus on passenger safety and comfort ahead of profit and the whole transport system will change.
Nobby
#38 Posted : Thursday, February 23, 2012 6:11:28 PM
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Joined: 2/8/2007
Posts: 625
Location: Nairobi
chiaroscuro wrote:
I will always remember the scene I witnessed one evening a few years ago at the Ambassadeur and route 58 (Accra rd) bus stops. This was during the days of the KBS Metro Shuttle.


At Accra road, there was a long queue of Matatus running all the way back to River Road. Very few passengers and the matatus were charging Sh20 to Buruburu.

At Ambassadeur, there was a long queue of passengers running all the way round the building - down to Ronald Ngala Street and up Tom Mboya st. They were waiting for the Metro Shuttle which was charging Sh40.

Now what does that tell you?

All it takes is a serious businessperson to focus on passenger safety and comfort ahead of profit and the whole transport system will change.



For this planned phase-out of the 14 seaters to fully succeed, the government must be involved by offering an alternative transport system. The most appropriate thing to do would be to set up a subsidized transport company that will compete directly with the matatus or partner with the other players to offer a new solution.
The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams.
murenj
#39 Posted : Thursday, February 23, 2012 6:40:20 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 7/22/2008
Posts: 851
Location: nairobi
Nobby wrote:
chiaroscuro wrote:
I will always remember the scene I witnessed one evening a few years ago at the Ambassadeur and route 58 (Accra rd) bus stops. This was during the days of the KBS Metro Shuttle.


At Accra road, there was a long queue of Matatus running all the way back to River Road. Very few passengers and the matatus were charging Sh20 to Buruburu.

At Ambassadeur, there was a long queue of passengers running all the way round the building - down to Ronald Ngala Street and up Tom Mboya st. They were waiting for the Metro Shuttle which was charging Sh40.

Now what does that tell you?

All it takes is a serious businessperson to focus on passenger safety and comfort ahead of profit and the whole transport system will change.



For this planned phase-out of the 14 seaters to fully succeed, the government must be involved by offering an alternative transport system. The most appropriate thing to do would be to set up a subsidized transport company that will compete directly with the matatus or partner with the other players to offer a new solution.

someone tried the same on lavingtone route.........boses would not be caught dead riding in the bus. The mbochs foud the bus too expe.. And opted for ma3s
QW25091985
#40 Posted : Thursday, February 23, 2012 6:42:52 PM
Rank: User


Joined: 1/24/2012
Posts: 1,675
Location: In Da Hood
murenj wrote:
Nobby wrote:
chiaroscuro wrote:
I will always remember the scene I witnessed one evening a few years ago at the Ambassadeur and route 58 (Accra rd) bus stops. This was during the days of the KBS Metro Shuttle.


At Accra road, there was a long queue of Matatus running all the way back to River Road. Very few passengers and the matatus were charging Sh20 to Buruburu.

At Ambassadeur, there was a long queue of passengers running all the way round the building - down to Ronald Ngala Street and up Tom Mboya st. They were waiting for the Metro Shuttle which was charging Sh40.

Now what does that tell you?

All it takes is a serious businessperson to focus on passenger safety and comfort ahead of profit and the whole transport system will change.



For this planned phase-out of the 14 seaters to fully succeed, the government must be involved by offering an alternative transport system. The most appropriate thing to do would be to set up a subsidized transport company that will compete directly with the matatus or partner with the other players to offer a new solution.

someone tried the same on lavingtone route.........boses would not be caught dead riding in the bus. The mbochs foud the bus too expe.. And opted for ma3s


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