wazua Thu, Jan 1, 2026
Welcome Guest Search | Active Topics | Log In

3 Pages<123>
Koigi vs Kikuyu
nostoppingthis
#21 Posted : Wednesday, February 22, 2012 10:04:04 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 8/24/2009
Posts: 5,909
Location: Nairobi
TAZ wrote:
nostoppingthis wrote:
2012 wrote:
nostoppingthis wrote:

Why does the political scene focus on these two communities and use the others as pawns?


Good question. And as one political annalist smile said, it will be easy for a wise fellow from the smaller tribes to be cunning and pita katikati with the support of the two tribes because they would rather give their votes someone else than lose to their rival.


I ask once again, would the pro-UK group give a compromise candidate from Meru or Embu of the smaller tribes!!?? I wait to see the day this will happen.....


Where is this candidate and has he\she strongly expressed any desire to go for the top seat? Why do people always assume that Kiuks can't vote for anyone else just because they've rejected RAO? He's the only candidate we've had from Nyanza since 1997 and it doesn't look like they'll be anyone else anytime soon.

Btw if you look at the voting patterns in the 1992 and 1997 elections you'd realize that KENYANS have always voted along tribal lines.....Kiuks shared votes between Matiba and MK, Nyanza had the Odinga dynasty while Western had the late Wamalwa. Its only in 2002 when they had a common enemy ndio walivote pamoja....it was done through the ballot and not propaganda.


As I said @Taz, if this happens, then Kenya would have changed....At this moment, I don't believe they are confident enough to defy their big brother and vie for the top seat...

You are very wrong on the highlighted part...And it is not assumption, until Kenyans see a different voting pattern from Central, that tag will remain...

didn't all Kenyans have hope on a baks presidency in 2002, what did he do once he clinched it? entrenched the tribalism Kenyans hoped would die with the past...In 2002, if it wasn't Baks, do you believe Kenyans would have voted any other candidate from another Kenyan community just to get rid of Mo1?
mnjoro
#22 Posted : Wednesday, February 22, 2012 10:11:28 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/21/2009
Posts: 573
I have no problem with RAO at all as the president.BUT problem is how do we outgrow Railaphobia after what we experienced in 2008.Seizing people's properties was the most undoing thing for him.This will haunt us for a very long time.
Majority of us that would want him in that house are waiting for that assurance.
YesuWangu
#23 Posted : Wednesday, February 22, 2012 10:45:32 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 8/11/2010
Posts: 1,588
Jaluo wrote:
@ harrydre said

“The Luo should rise and realize Odinga is not a god. For the last like 20 years, there has not been any other Luo running for the top seat. That is luck of competitiveness and it's naïve”

@ Yesu Wangu said

‘….The Nyanza model is naive no doubt ‘’ …


Good people, Look at this way from the other side of the coin. RAO is a LEADER of the Luo people. He is not perfect and a leader should not necessarily be perfect or deified. Without a leader, a community’s voice will never be heard and it will be rudderless and resort to things like clannism : Look at the Somalis across the border.

My personal preference would be for RAO to sahau the presidency and go for something else like Nairobi Governor because he is too polarizing a figure.

As a presidential candidate (just like all the others), he has tu-maneno to explain like Maize Scandal, Kisumu Molasses Plant, flip-flopping, nepotism etc etc. The presidency will not define, confirm or alter the fact the he is the Luo leader.

I (and many others) could and will vote for other presidential candidates but RAO will remain the undisputed Luo leader until this leadership mantle is passed on to the next leader. Fidel doesn’t have the qualifications so rest assured the Odinga hegemony will eventually end; but another will rise. And we are happy with that.

Those who cannot comprehend this dichotomy surely cannot see a priest in a black frock standing in a mountain of sugar.

It is not naïvete, It is not ‘Tin God’ worship and all other negative images that people come up with. We do not need ‘Ukombozi’ as Raphael Tuju put it (On Tuju- he needs some education on what ''Community'' is ). We do not need to rise. (Rise and go where- South Sudan?) We are not looking for an alternative leader. We are not looking for an alternative model. We are looking to live as Kenyan Luo’s in a democratic, meritocratic and peaceful Kenya with 40 other tribes as our Kenyan brothers.

This is an African model and it works for us; we don’t need to abolish our culture and evolve into a White Man overnight. We have a leader, we need to accept that and not resort to tribalism against our neighbour’s or hate Okuyo’s and others for no coherent reason. We embrace our Kenyan-ness first and accept our Luo-ness second.


Mr. Jaluo, are you saying what I think you are saying? That in that manner you have avoided 'clannism' and other minute local political differences in your area?

E.g. such as subtle local political jabs that leadership ought not to pass this and that river etc.

Is this what the leaders of such places are trying to eliminate but for some strange reason they cast disparaging remarks at your region where the model has worked?

nostoppingthis
#24 Posted : Wednesday, February 22, 2012 10:52:03 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 8/24/2009
Posts: 5,909
Location: Nairobi
mnjoro wrote:
I have no problem with RAO at all as the president.BUT problem is how do we outgrow Railaphobia after what we experienced in 2008.Seizing people's properties was the most undoing thing for him.This will haunt us for a very long time.
Majority of us that would want him in that house are waiting for that assurance.


Did he organize, finance and execute this atrocities?
TAZ
#25 Posted : Wednesday, February 22, 2012 11:07:08 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/14/2007
Posts: 4,152
@ Nostoppingthis....Why are you ignoring the fact that the Odinga's have controlled Luo Nyanza for more than 20 years. At the moment there's no one else apart from RAO, can anyone really convince Kenyans in that region to defy the Captain?

I've always been of the opinion that 2002 elections were exceptional in that Kenyans were voting AGAINST the Moi regime and not necessarily for MK....we all wanted change! I think MK got the ticket because he was the leading contender and had majority support. Once again i invite you to look at the voting patterns in 1992 & 1997 elections. Kenyans usually follow their "tribal Kings", all communities have them (even the small ones). I believe we have some great minds in Nyanza and Central, people who are genuine reformers who can bring about the change in this country problem is that we keep fronting the same candidates who have been rejected before in other regions.

Take a look at the US, over the years so many African-American Presidential nominees have failed to do what Obama did in 2008. He was not the first or the only one to make the ballot. He managed to convince Americans of all races to vote for him....he had a vision for the Country and he shared it effectively with everyone. Hapa Kenya its all about playing victim, ati sijui "its our time" mara "we supported you in the last elections so you should also support us now". Btw we are dealing with politicians (both sides) who have been in govt all along, what change could they possibly bring ama lazima wakuwe in State House ndio akili ifanye!
McReggae
#26 Posted : Wednesday, February 22, 2012 11:21:43 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/17/2008
Posts: 23,365
Location: Nairobi
@TAZ,
You forget the lapse between Jaramogi and Raila's leadership of the Luo, Jaramogi preferred Orengo in Luo Nyanza, Raila fought to be the Luo leader, it wasn't given on a silver platter, it's unfortunate for the phobia that we have against Raila we forget the sacrifices he has undergone in this country, history is what makes him appeal to the Luo, you don't expect a johnny come lately like Tuju to shikana with some people from outside and convince guys otherwise, today UK appeal to the kikuyus more beacuse of his ICC tributlations, this makes the likes PK and MK be throught to the dustbin the voters, and this you can't take away from them!!!!
..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
mnjoro
#27 Posted : Wednesday, February 22, 2012 11:48:43 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/21/2009
Posts: 573
nostoppingthis wrote:
mnjoro wrote:
I have no problem with RAO at all as the president.BUT problem is how do we outgrow Railaphobia after what we experienced in 2008.Seizing people's properties was the most undoing thing for him.This will haunt us for a very long time.
Majority of us that would want him in that house are waiting for that assurance.


Did he organize, finance and execute this atrocities?

Who seized others properties?
Jaluo
#28 Posted : Wednesday, February 22, 2012 12:17:53 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 6/22/2011
Posts: 72
Location: Joburg
@YesuWangu


Not quite. Unajua in maisha there are always grey areas, it’s never quite clear-cut black and white.

Let me use an analogy of a normal household; at some point, someone has to take a hard decision when faced with hard life choices and LEAD. The decision could be right or wrong. That person is usually the ‘MAN’ or the ‘LEADER’. If that 'MAN’ turns out to be a drunkard, idler, vagabond, tribalist, warlike,fence-sitter and layabout etc, the whole house sinks and becomes his mirror image. The opposite is true.

Have you noticed the way when a very wealthy man (e.g. Gerishon Kirima) passes on, that’s when squabbles and issues crawl off the woodwork because the ‘LEADER is gone?
'' The European condemns the Africans for having two wives yet he keeps two mistresses'' - Jomo Kenyatta
Lolest!
#29 Posted : Wednesday, February 22, 2012 4:32:18 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
McReggae wrote:
@TAZ,
You forget the lapse between Jaramogi and Raila's leadership of the Luo, Jaramogi preferred Orengo in Luo Nyanza, Raila fought to be the Luo leader, it wasn't given on a silver platter, it's unfortunate for the phobia that we have against Raila we forget the sacrifices he has undergone in this country

sacrifices gani? But I agree, he's earned the kingship. It was not just thrust on him.
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
poundfoolish
#30 Posted : Wednesday, February 22, 2012 5:07:49 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/2/2009
Posts: 2,458
Location: Nairobi
there are only two solid blocks in Kenya..

Luo and Kikuyu, with the rest to fight for...
even the Ruto sideshow is just that..for show.. 'ikifika kwa tepe' as Pufwoli puts it.. RV (Kalenjin vote) will be 50/50... Kisii Nyanza 40/60, Wezdern 80/20, Coast vote 30/70, N.eastern 50/50, Nairobi 50/50...

thus that run-off is welcome..
Rahatupu
#31 Posted : Thursday, February 23, 2012 10:23:37 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 1,982
Location: matano manne
mnjoro wrote:
nostoppingthis wrote:
mnjoro wrote:
I have no problem with RAO at all as the president.BUT problem is how do we outgrow Railaphobia after what we experienced in 2008.Seizing people's properties was the most undoing thing for him.This will haunt us for a very long time.
Majority of us that would want him in that house are waiting for that assurance.


Did he organize, finance and execute this atrocities?

Who seized others properties?


@mnjoro, I believe UK derives his support from his "heroic" acts of commission during Jan/Feb of 2008. By then this "people" had and still did not clearly know who their enemies were. WR's "people" slaughtered hundreds of Okuyus in Eld, burned them in churches.....and took away their shambas. While no kaleo was deprived of his land very few that died.
Today the okuyu kingdom does not realize that their hero has betrayed them by sleeping with the enemy WR!!!!!
mnjoro
#32 Posted : Thursday, February 23, 2012 10:44:53 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/21/2009
Posts: 573
Much as we may talk about politicians,have any of you guys realized we are as political as they are.
Consinder their behaviour and its excatly repricated here.they accuse each other on the public gallery whilest dining together JUST as we have and are planning to eat Mbuzi together.
I believe its only @nonstoppingthis who can stop these politics here.
Lolest!
#33 Posted : Thursday, February 23, 2012 11:03:26 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
Rahatupu wrote:


@mnjoro, I believe UK derives his support from his "heroic" acts of commission during Jan/Feb of 2008. By then this "people" had and still did not clearly know who their enemies were. WR's "people" slaughtered hundreds of Okuyus in Eld, burned them in churches.....and took away their shambas. While no kaleo was deprived of his land very few that died.
Today the okuyu kingdom does not realize that their hero has betrayed them by sleeping with the enemy WR!!!!!

RAO was not innocent either. Every time he comes close to power the 'kingdom' has to suffer.

Rememeber the incident when NARC came to power when sme 20 or so youths from the kingdom were killed by 'Raila supporters' who had refused to pay rent in Mathare?

Remember Raila's innocent words on the Kiambaa incident?

There is a well known fact that there was one man who could have stopped the violence in 07/08 but he didn't!
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
Rahatupu
#34 Posted : Thursday, February 23, 2012 11:29:09 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 1,982
Location: matano manne
Lolest! wrote:
Rahatupu wrote:


@mnjoro, I believe UK derives his support from his "heroic" acts of commission during Jan/Feb of 2008. By then this "people" had and still did not clearly know who their enemies were. WR's "people" slaughtered hundreds of Okuyus in Eld, burned them in churches.....and took away their shambas. While no kaleo was deprived of his land very few that died.
Today the okuyu kingdom does not realize that their hero has betrayed them by sleeping with the enemy WR!!!!!

RAO was not innocent either. Every time he comes close to power the 'kingdom' has to suffer.

Rememeber the incident when NARC came to power when sme 20 or so youths from the kingdom were killed by 'Raila supporters' who had refused to pay rent in Mathare?

Remember Raila's innocent words on the Kiambaa incident?

There is a well known fact that there was one man who could have stopped the violence in 07/08 but he didn't!


From the Koigi article, what I want to emphasise like he did is that the okuyu stunt themselves by partnering with WR or agreeing to form whatever tribal alliances period. Worse they partner with the ones who always dine with them lakini "adui ni hao wao"
masukuma
#35 Posted : Thursday, February 23, 2012 11:52:19 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,822
Location: Nairobi
Rahatupu wrote:
Lolest! wrote:
Rahatupu wrote:


@mnjoro, I believe UK derives his support from his "heroic" acts of commission during Jan/Feb of 2008. By then this "people" had and still did not clearly know who their enemies were. WR's "people" slaughtered hundreds of Okuyus in Eld, burned them in churches.....and took away their shambas. While no kaleo was deprived of his land very few that died.
Today the okuyu kingdom does not realize that their hero has betrayed them by sleeping with the enemy WR!!!!!

RAO was not innocent either. Every time he comes close to power the 'kingdom' has to suffer.

Rememeber the incident when NARC came to power when sme 20 or so youths from the kingdom were killed by 'Raila supporters' who had refused to pay rent in Mathare?

Remember Raila's innocent words on the Kiambaa incident?

There is a well known fact that there was one man who could have stopped the violence in 07/08 but he didn't!


From the Koigi article, what I want to emphasise like he did is that the okuyu stunt themselves by partnering with WR or agreeing to form whatever tribal alliances period. Worse they partner with the ones who always dine with them lakini "adui ni hao wao"

As a Kikuyu from Rift Valley (As I am) ,Koigi should know that the peace for our people lies in peace with the Kalenjin nation. We are so mixed up in places like Kuresoi, Molo, Likia, Mauche Njoro, Ngata, Kabarak, Rongai e.t.c. that it becomes to our benefit to actually seek an alliance with them. We have suffered in times past as our idealists from Central province pick up wars on our behalf. There was a move to break our union with Central province and explore a political union with our neighbours in rift valley. Believe me when I say this- this union between Uhuru and Ruto is very practical and useful for us kikuyus of 'ruguru'. the rest can meza wembe!
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
Lucid_Iam
#36 Posted : Thursday, February 23, 2012 11:52:52 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 9/30/2011
Posts: 483
poundfoolish wrote:
there are only two solid blocks in Kenya..

Luo and Kikuyu, with the rest to fight for...
even the Ruto sideshow is just that..for show.. 'ikifika kwa tepe' as Pufwoli puts it.. RV (Kalenjin vote) will be 50/50... Kisii Nyanza 40/60, Wezdern 80/20, Coast vote 30/70, N.eastern 50/50, Nairobi 50/50...

thus that run-off is welcome..


You clearly don't understand the Kalenjin nation. The rest I agree with.
masukuma
#37 Posted : Thursday, February 23, 2012 11:56:40 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,822
Location: Nairobi
Lucid_Iam wrote:
poundfoolish wrote:
there are only two solid blocks in Kenya..

Luo and Kikuyu, with the rest to fight for...
even the Ruto sideshow is just that..for show.. 'ikifika kwa tepe' as Pufwoli puts it.. RV (Kalenjin vote) will be 50/50... Kisii Nyanza 40/60, Wezdern 80/20, Coast vote 30/70, N.eastern 50/50, Nairobi 50/50...

thus that run-off is welcome..


You clearly don't understand the Kalenjin nation. The rest I agree with.

The Kalenjin Nation has never been divided! they vote as a bloc
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
nostoppingthis
#38 Posted : Thursday, February 23, 2012 12:11:20 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 8/24/2009
Posts: 5,909
Location: Nairobi
mnjoro wrote:
Much as we may talk about politicians,have any of you guys realized we are as political as they are.
Consinder their behaviour and its excatly repricated here.they accuse each other on the public gallery whilest dining together JUST as we have and are planning to eat Mbuzi together.
I believe its only @nonstoppingthis who can stop these politics here.


Every time politics is brought up, tension rise in wazua....I think it is best we become modest and sober with such discussions, than deteriorate to the infamous @Paulkukubo days (other were busy cheering as @Paulkukubo hit below the belt, as this was in line with their political believes/inclination.

It doesn't look like any discussion here will even change the way you vote (maybe with regards to specific individuals)...so, Let these thread be...it was to discuss the issues raised by Koigi...
Rahatupu
#39 Posted : Thursday, February 23, 2012 12:12:41 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 1,982
Location: matano manne
masukuma wrote:
Rahatupu wrote:
Lolest! wrote:
Rahatupu wrote:


@mnjoro, I believe UK derives his support from his "heroic" acts of commission during Jan/Feb of 2008. By then this "people" had and still did not clearly know who their enemies were. WR's "people" slaughtered hundreds of Okuyus in Eld, burned them in churches.....and took away their shambas. While no kaleo was deprived of his land very few that died.
Today the okuyu kingdom does not realize that their hero has betrayed them by sleeping with the enemy WR!!!!!

RAO was not innocent either. Every time he comes close to power the 'kingdom' has to suffer.

Rememeber the incident when NARC came to power when sme 20 or so youths from the kingdom were killed by 'Raila supporters' who had refused to pay rent in Mathare?

Remember Raila's innocent words on the Kiambaa incident?

There is a well known fact that there was one man who could have stopped the violence in 07/08 but he didn't!


From the Koigi article, what I want to emphasise like he did is that the okuyu stunt themselves by partnering with WR or agreeing to form whatever tribal alliances period. Worse they partner with the ones who always dine with them lakini "adui ni hao wao"

As a Kikuyu from Rift Valley (As I am) ,Koigi should know that the peace for our people lies in peace with the Kalenjin nation. We are so mixed up in places like Kuresoi, Molo, Likia, Mauche Njoro, Ngata, Kabarak, Rongai e.t.c. that it becomes to our benefit to actually seek an alliance with them. We have suffered in times past as our idealists from Central province pick up wars on our behalf. There was a move to break our union with Central province and explore a political union with our neighbours in rift valley. Believe me when I say this- this union between Uhuru and Ruto is very practical and useful for us kikuyus of 'ruguru'. the rest can meza wembe!

@Masukuma, the alliance is built on quicksand, given that the vote is mainly determined by "central" okuyus the difference in the voting pattern will not alter any violence targeting the "ruguru" okuyus. In a worst case scenario they'd still be burnt in churches.

What peace?? Did they rape, maim, kill, burn or loot any kaleo women, children, shambas etc?
poundfoolish
#40 Posted : Thursday, February 23, 2012 12:56:04 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/2/2009
Posts: 2,458
Location: Nairobi
masukuma wrote:
Lucid_Iam wrote:
poundfoolish wrote:
there are only two solid blocks in Kenya..

Luo and Kikuyu, with the rest to fight for...
even the Ruto sideshow is just that..for show.. 'ikifika kwa tepe' as Pufwoli puts it.. RV (Kalenjin vote) will be 50/50... Kisii Nyanza 40/60, Wezdern 80/20, Coast vote 30/70, N.eastern 50/50, Nairobi 50/50...

thus that run-off is welcome..


You clearly don't understand the Kalenjin nation. The rest I agree with.

The Kalenjin Nation has never been divided! they vote as a bloc


I hate to indulge much into the Kalenjin nation vote, but why, please do tell, did UDM decide not to give the party to WR... who were the forces behind it, denying the torch bearer a MERE party..
WR has some local powerful forces to reckon with.. the problem is that they are quiet, calculating and moneyed..and many
Users browsing this topic
Guest (2)
3 Pages<123>
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Copyright © 2026 Wazua.co.ke. All Rights Reserved.