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Koigi vs Kikuyu
nostoppingthis
#1 Posted : Monday, February 20, 2012 3:50:25 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 8/24/2009
Posts: 5,909
Location: Nairobi
This guy is bold to write this....

www.kenyastockholm.com/2...e-kikuyu-problems-koigi/
nostoppingthis
#2 Posted : Tuesday, February 21, 2012 12:29:00 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 8/24/2009
Posts: 5,909
Location: Nairobi
Some excerpts from the article

By asking me to support Uhuru, the young man was asking me to put Uhuru above the law and support his exemption from ICC, whether guilty or not, because the king is never wrong. And Churches have followed suit in Eldroret, Kiambu and Nakuru. They are praying for Uhuru and Ruto as if they are national heroes and not suspects of crimes against humanity. Imagine churches praying for suspects of genocide in Rwanda before they were taken to UN Tribunal at Arusha or suspects of perpetrating the holocaust before they were taken to Nuremberg in Germany....

....., Uhuru is born with royal blue blood of kingship over the Kikuyu and possession of this blue blood is all he needs to be the King of the Kikuyu and Kenya. Subsequently, any Kikuyu who questions this logic is a traitor and any Kenyan who doubts its correctness is anti-Kikuyu, mistaken and malicious. Uhuru himself said in the Murang’a meeting that any Kikuyus who will not toe the line, they will go for them in their homes......

....But how did the Kikuyu get where they are? First and foremost, they have allowed themselves to be manipulated with money. Second their ethnic chiefs have terrified them to believe they must have a king to survive against other communities that have kings Ruto, Raila and Kalonzo. And most important, Kikuyus have lost their freedom to think beyond their community.....

....As supporters of Uhuru cite his strengths, even Kikuyu professors, lawyers, doctors and bishops refuse to look at his disqualifications such as inherited leadership, corroboration with and penchant for dictatorship, inheritance of enormous lands and inherent inability to champion eradication of poverty, corruption and negative ethnicity whose wave he hopes to ride to State House.....

.....Ironically, most victims of crimes against humanity have been Kikuyu men, women and children.....

.....And how can a community unable to accept a simple fact like leadership cannot be confined to one family only be expected or trusted to provide leadership in other areas of society and economy of Kenya?.....

....Just to defend Uhuru and campaign for his kingship, Kikuyus have become politically dwarfed, diminished, de-nationalized and reduced to a mere community when they could be larger and bigger as Kenyans, East Africans, Africans and citizens of the world!To save Uhuru, I see the Kikuyu losing Kenya (hood). Is this price worthy it?.....

Why would this man speak against his community in this fashion? Is this a sober argument on his part?
alma
#3 Posted : Tuesday, February 21, 2012 12:36:47 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/20/2007
Posts: 4,432
that article so old but I always find myself reading it after I listen to my Kikuyu brethren speak. Nothing has changed since he wrote it. If only he behaved as he writes.
Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
Lucid_Iam
#4 Posted : Tuesday, February 21, 2012 12:38:39 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 9/30/2011
Posts: 483
He makes a lot of sense. Now we need another one to write about Luo and Odinga and how this communities should disentangle themselves from these families then we will have half sorted the political problems of Kenya.
Njung'e
#5 Posted : Tuesday, February 21, 2012 12:46:13 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/7/2007
Posts: 11,935
Location: Nairobi
ZZZZZzzzzzzzzzz!!
Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm.
TAZ
#6 Posted : Tuesday, February 21, 2012 12:48:33 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/14/2007
Posts: 4,152
Lucid_Iam wrote:
He makes a lot of sense. Now we need another one to write about Luo and Odinga and how this communities should disentangle themselves from these families then we will have half sorted the political problems of Kenya.


Applause Applause Applause Applause
livie
#7 Posted : Tuesday, February 21, 2012 12:59:31 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/1/2008
Posts: 834
nostoppingthis wrote:
Some excerpts from the article

By asking me to support Uhuru, the young man was asking me to put Uhuru above the law and support his exemption from ICC, whether guilty or not, because the king is never wrong. And Churches have followed suit in Eldroret, Kiambu and Nakuru. They are praying for Uhuru and Ruto as if they are national heroes and not suspects of crimes against humanity. Imagine churches praying for suspects of genocide in Rwanda before they were taken to UN Tribunal at Arusha or suspects of perpetrating the holocaust before they were taken to Nuremberg in Germany....

....., Uhuru is born with royal blue blood of kingship over the Kikuyu and possession of this blue blood is all he needs to be the King of the Kikuyu and Kenya. Subsequently, any Kikuyu who questions this logic is a traitor and any Kenyan who doubts its correctness is anti-Kikuyu, mistaken and malicious. Uhuru himself said in the Murang’a meeting that any Kikuyus who will not toe the line, they will go for them in their homes......

....But how did the Kikuyu get where they are? First and foremost, they have allowed themselves to be manipulated with money. Second their ethnic chiefs have terrified them to believe they must have a king to survive against other communities that have kings Ruto, Raila and Kalonzo. And most important, Kikuyus have lost their freedom to think beyond their community.....

....As supporters of Uhuru cite his strengths, even Kikuyu professors, lawyers, doctors and bishops refuse to look at his disqualifications such as inherited leadership, corroboration with and penchant for dictatorship, inheritance of enormous lands and inherent inability to champion eradication of poverty, corruption and negative ethnicity whose wave he hopes to ride to State House.....

.....Ironically, most victims of crimes against humanity have been Kikuyu men, women and children.....

.....And how can a community unable to accept a simple fact like leadership cannot be confined to one family only be expected or trusted to provide leadership in other areas of society and economy of Kenya?.....

....Just to defend Uhuru and campaign for his kingship, Kikuyus have become politically dwarfed, diminished, de-nationalized and reduced to a mere community when they could be larger and bigger as Kenyans, East Africans, Africans and citizens of the world!To save Uhuru, I see the Kikuyu losing Kenya (hood). Is this price worthy it?.....

Why would this man speak against his community in this fashion? Is this a sober argument on his part?


if he said that then we r in funk!!!
wat of those of us who took wives from the mountainside?
If you are going to be thinking only one thing, you might as well be thinking big. -Donald J . Trump
nostoppingthis
#8 Posted : Tuesday, February 21, 2012 1:06:11 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 8/24/2009
Posts: 5,909
Location: Nairobi
TAZ wrote:
Lucid_Iam wrote:
He makes a lot of sense. Now we need another one to write about Luo and Odinga and how this communities should disentangle themselves from these families then we will have half sorted the political problems of Kenya.


Applause Applause Applause Applause


Why does the political scene focus on these two communities and use the others as pawns?
Lolest!
#9 Posted : Tuesday, February 21, 2012 1:28:25 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
I do not begrudge Uhuru merely because he inherited his political seat. It is okay for anyone to take the line of their parents and even seek to do better than them! Attacking beneficiaries of inheritance is like sayin the son of a good businessman has no right being a good business man!

Kenyatta, Odinga and Mudavadi dynasties are doing well. But I believe Uhuru's ratings would be much lower if the ICC had not charged him. He became martyr overnight with the tribe feeling that he was suffering on their behalf.

The common belief in GEMA is that Uhuru actually did participate in the revenge attacks but they believe that is what saved them-thus his Odinga-like popularity!
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
2012
#10 Posted : Tuesday, February 21, 2012 1:38:36 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/9/2009
Posts: 6,592
Location: Nairobi
nostoppingthis wrote:

Why does the political scene focus on these two communities and use the others as pawns?


Good question. And as one political annalist smile said, it will be easy for a wise fellow from the smaller tribes to be cunning and pita katikati with the support of the two tribes because they would rather give their votes someone else than lose to their rival.

BBI will solve it
:)
nostoppingthis
#11 Posted : Tuesday, February 21, 2012 4:13:38 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 8/24/2009
Posts: 5,909
Location: Nairobi
2012 wrote:
[quote=nostoppingthis]
deleted


nostoppingthis
#12 Posted : Tuesday, February 21, 2012 4:15:34 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 8/24/2009
Posts: 5,909
Location: Nairobi
2012 wrote:
nostoppingthis wrote:

Why does the political scene focus on these two communities and use the others as pawns?


Good question. And as one political annalist smile said, it will be easy for a wise fellow from the smaller tribes to be cunning and pita katikati with the support of the two tribes because they would rather give their votes someone else than lose to their rival.


I ask once again, would the pro-UK group give a compromise candidate from Meru or Embu of the smaller tribes!!?? I wait to see the day this will happen.....
Lolest!
#13 Posted : Tuesday, February 21, 2012 4:45:09 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
nostoppingthis wrote:

I ask once again, would the pro-UK group give a compromise candidate from Meru or Embu of the smaller tribes!!?? I wait to see the day this will happen.....

why not?

why are you assuming UK's core support is in House of Mumbi and not in GEMA?
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
kangi
#14 Posted : Tuesday, February 21, 2012 5:05:53 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 7/23/2009
Posts: 526
nostoppingthis wrote:
2012 wrote:
nostoppingthis wrote:

Why does the political scene focus on these two communities and use the others as pawns?


Good question. And as one political annalist smile said, it will be easy for a wise fellow from the smaller tribes to be cunning and pita katikati with the support of the two tribes because they would rather give their votes someone else than lose to their rival.


I ask once again, would the pro-UK group give a compromise candidate from Meru or Embu of the smaller tribes!!?? I wait to see the day this will happen.....


Its gonna happen,....actually this year with the run off being a reality.
Accept no one's definition of your life; define your life.
TAZ
#15 Posted : Tuesday, February 21, 2012 5:16:52 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/14/2007
Posts: 4,152
nostoppingthis wrote:
2012 wrote:
nostoppingthis wrote:

Why does the political scene focus on these two communities and use the others as pawns?


Good question. And as one political annalist smile said, it will be easy for a wise fellow from the smaller tribes to be cunning and pita katikati with the support of the two tribes because they would rather give their votes someone else than lose to their rival.


I ask once again, would the pro-UK group give a compromise candidate from Meru or Embu of the smaller tribes!!?? I wait to see the day this will happen.....


Where is this candidate and has he\she strongly expressed any desire to go for the top seat? Why do people always assume that Kiuks can't vote for anyone else just because they've rejected RAO? He's the only candidate we've had from Nyanza since 1997 and it doesn't look like they'll be anyone else anytime soon.

Btw if you look at the voting patterns in the 1992 and 1997 elections you'd realize that KENYANS have always voted along tribal lines.....Kiuks shared votes between Matiba and MK, Nyanza had the Odinga dynasty while Western had the late Wamalwa. Its only in 2002 when they had a common enemy ndio walivote pamoja....it was done through the ballot and not propaganda.
luttz
#16 Posted : Tuesday, February 21, 2012 6:38:02 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 3/18/2008
Posts: 377
@ Lolest: Kweli kabisa,we should not be blamed because we are born of certain families, we all have parents whether poor, rich, peasants, thieves, rapists etc. And we all strive to be better than them, at least in our thinking.

@ Taz, hapana, not all tribes vote in tribal patterns or in a certain way. Western has always been divided, Huko kwa Wiper, the same and same to expansive Rift Valley, and Coast. The biggest problem in this country lies in Central and Nyanza and now the Kales are joining the ranks. one is tempted to thin that when one RAO, WSR or UK is elected president all Luos, Kales and Kiuks will eat 3 quality meals in a day, take their kids to school, et al. But we know the truth, why can't we change our people?
"You've never lived until you've almost died; for those who have fought for it, life has a flavour the protected will never know."
pariah
#17 Posted : Tuesday, February 21, 2012 11:49:22 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/24/2011
Posts: 833
QUOTING Luttz "one is tempted to thin that when one RAO, WSR or UK is elected president all Luos, Kales and Kiuks will eat 3 quality meals in a day, take their kids to school, et al. But we know the truth, why can't we change our people?"


I have asked so many of my friends this question, even those that I believe are far more intelligent than I am just sing the tribal song all the way. It is a shame even the jobless people who are mostly jobless because of the shenanigans of current leaders are campaigning for them in forums as this one. Then they ll go to church/mosque and pray for jobs!!!!!!!! Jisaidie kwanza kabla uombe Mungu, if you vote any of the current leaders we ll still be where we are for a loooooong time, it doesnt matter the tribe or colour, none of them has a vision for kenya. I wish I can believe RT's manifesto .......
harrydre
#18 Posted : Wednesday, February 22, 2012 5:30:52 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/10/2008
Posts: 9,131
Location: Kanjo
I believe Kiuks can vote for someone else even a Luo it's just RAO they ain't comfortable with. There is something about him...LOL..if G7 goes for Tuju for example, he will get the GEMA votes, and so is Eugene or MM.The Luo should rise and realize Odinga is not a god. For the last like 20 years, there has not been any other Luo running for the top seat. That is luck of competitiveness and it's naive
i.am.back!!!!
YesuWangu
#19 Posted : Wednesday, February 22, 2012 7:21:16 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 8/11/2010
Posts: 1,588
harrydre wrote:
I believe Kiuks can vote for someone else even a Luo it's just RAO they ain't comfortable with. There is something about him...LOL..if G7 goes for Tuju for example, he will get the GEMA votes, and so is Eugene or MM.The Luo should rise and realize Odinga is not a god. For the last like 20 years, there has not been any other Luo running for the top seat. That is luck of competitiveness and it's naive


There is this disconnect I keep noticing. The Nyanza model is naive no doubt but why then is it being copied by the very ones who condemn it?

Please tie together this hypocrisy for me. I don't understand it.

Jaluo
#20 Posted : Wednesday, February 22, 2012 9:42:39 AM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 6/22/2011
Posts: 72
Location: Joburg
@ harrydre said

“The Luo should rise and realize Odinga is not a god. For the last like 20 years, there has not been any other Luo running for the top seat. That is luck of competitiveness and it's naïve”

@ Yesu Wangu said

‘….The Nyanza model is naive no doubt ‘’ …


Good people, Look at this way from the other side of the coin. RAO is a LEADER of the Luo people. He is not perfect and a leader should not necessarily be perfect or deified. Without a leader, a community’s voice will never be heard and it will be rudderless and resort to things like clannism : Look at the Somalis across the border.

My personal preference would be for RAO to sahau the presidency and go for something else like Nairobi Governor because he is too polarizing a figure.

As a presidential candidate (just like all the others), he has tu-maneno to explain like Maize Scandal, Kisumu Molasses Plant, flip-flopping, nepotism etc etc. The presidency will not define, confirm or alter the fact the he is the Luo leader.

I (and many others) could and will vote for other presidential candidates but RAO will remain the undisputed Luo leader until this leadership mantle is passed on to the next leader. Fidel doesn’t have the qualifications so rest assured the Odinga hegemony will eventually end; but another will rise. And we are happy with that.

Those who cannot comprehend this dichotomy surely cannot see a priest in a black frock standing in a mountain of sugar.

It is not naïvete, It is not ‘Tin God’ worship and all other negative images that people come up with. We do not need ‘Ukombozi’ as Raphael Tuju put it (On Tuju- he needs some education on what ''Community'' is ). We do not need to rise. (Rise and go where- South Sudan?) We are not looking for an alternative leader. We are not looking for an alternative model. We are looking to live as Kenyan Luo’s in a democratic, meritocratic and peaceful Kenya with 40 other tribes as our Kenyan brothers.

This is an African model and it works for us; we don’t need to abolish our culture and evolve into a White Man overnight. We have a leader, we need to accept that and not resort to tribalism against our neighbour’s or hate Okuyo’s and others for no coherent reason. We embrace our Kenyan-ness first and accept our Luo-ness second.
'' The European condemns the Africans for having two wives yet he keeps two mistresses'' - Jomo Kenyatta
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