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Judge Kaul
freiks
#1 Posted : Monday, January 23, 2012 11:04:11 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 6/8/2010
Posts: 1,732
http://www.nation.co.ke/...0/-/rfkx51/-/index.html

I think this is the only Judge who used is head to think others used there heads so that they could have some work to do.

quote

"Judge Kaul said that contrary to his colleagues’ findings, he was also not satisfied that the crimes allegedly committed by Mr Muthaura and Mr Kenyatta “occurred pursuant to or in furtherance of a policy of an organization”.

He argues that he “remains unconvinced by the prosecutor’s potrayal” of the Mungiki and the police as “one organisation with a pre-defined allocation of roles” that was apparently unified in the goal of attacking civilians perceived as ODM supporters."

Life is an endless adventure
Kihangeri
#2 Posted : Tuesday, January 24, 2012 9:24:34 AM
Rank: User


Joined: 11/10/2010
Posts: 550
Location: Junction
freiks wrote:
http://www.nation.co.ke/News/German+judge+insists+suspects+should+have+been+tried+in+Kenya+/-/1056/1312648/-/item/0/-/rfkx51/-/index.html

I think this is the only Judge who used is head to think others used there heads so that they could have some work to do.

quote

"Judge Kaul said that contrary to his colleagues’ findings, he was also not satisfied that the crimes allegedly committed by Mr Muthaura and Mr Kenyatta “occurred pursuant to or in furtherance of a policy of an organization”.

He argues that he “remains unconvinced by the prosecutor’s potrayal” of the Mungiki and the police as “one organisation with a pre-defined allocation of roles” that was apparently unified in the goal of attacking civilians perceived as ODM supporters."



You need to understand that ICC is a charade, farce, sham and travesty controlled by the Waste to ensure African and other subhumans are kept in check. It is a case of 2 wolves and a Sheep debating what they are going to have for dinner.

Who finances the ICC? He who pays the rat, decides who is to be caught. Ati Koskey off the hook while Sang goes in. Only a wolf can make such a decision.

Can you believe Charles Taylor was a spy for CIA only for him to end up ICC. Can you believe Saddam used to be pro American but they ensured he died by hanging?
By inference, the man is all that Mr Phantom is not: an untrustworthy radical, divisive, too many enemies, a dictator, and a persistent liar...
Gaitho dialogues.


Kihangeri
#3 Posted : Tuesday, January 24, 2012 9:36:14 AM
Rank: User


Joined: 11/10/2010
Posts: 550
Location: Junction
And here is your answer.

The Obama administration has called for “accountability on the 2007-2008 post-election violence” following the confirmation of charges of four Kenyans by the International Criminal Court (ICC).

State Department spokeswoman Victoria Nuland urged the Kenyan government, the people of Kenya and the four cited individuals to continue to cooperate fully with the ICC proceedings.

http://www.nation.co.ke/.../-/yx4v1jz/-/index.html

All in all, I want all those involved in the Violence to be hanged. But when a few are selected with precision, then I fear we are being herded to lake Victoria.
By inference, the man is all that Mr Phantom is not: an untrustworthy radical, divisive, too many enemies, a dictator, and a persistent liar...
Gaitho dialogues.


2012
#4 Posted : Tuesday, January 24, 2012 9:51:03 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/9/2009
Posts: 6,592
Location: Nairobi
freiks wrote:
I think this is the only Judge who used is head to think others used there heads so that they could have some work to do.


You're so wrong. I respect the Judge who declined but you should know that this was a pretrial court and their work was only to confirm or decline charges. They will not handle the case when it goes to trial nor the appeals that are being launched. Their work concluded yesterday.

BBI will solve it
:)
CaptainGG
#5 Posted : Tuesday, January 24, 2012 10:26:45 AM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 10/13/2011
Posts: 67
Location: Kenya
The judge gave his verdict the way he sees it, the other two judges also gave their. Let us respect their decisions. However, does Judge kaul honestly believe rejecting the Kenyan cases will make the Kenyan Justice system handle them. He needs to face the reality. The victims can only get justice in the Hague.

Keriako Tobiko himself is facing integrity issues with his appointment, do you think he has the capacity and the goodwill to prosecute these guys locally. The government is also partisan is more concerned with protecting the suspects. If the ICC is meant for Africans, then behave in a more civilised manner and no one will take you to Hague. You want to kill and maim and remain free in the name of sovereignty. Give us a break guys.
McReggae
#6 Posted : Tuesday, January 24, 2012 10:37:51 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/17/2008
Posts: 23,365
Location: Nairobi
CaptainGG wrote:
The judge gave his verdict the way he sees it, the other two judges also gave their. Let us respect their decisions. However, does Judge kaul honestly believe rejecting the Kenyan cases will make the Kenyan Justice system handle them. He needs to face the reality. The victims can only get justice in the Hague.

Keriako Tobiko himself is facing integrity issues with his appointment, do you think he has the capacity and the goodwill to prosecute these guys locally. The government is also partisan is more concerned with protecting the suspects. If the ICC is meant for Africans, then behave in a more civilised manner and no one will take you to Hague. You want to kill and maim and remain free in the name of sovereignty. Give us a break guys.



....apparently that's the way kenyans love it, otherwise now we woould be talking of how to revive the caeses of Ali and Kosgey locally and also rop in more suspects and thugs, what does the president do, instruct the AG to constitute a leagal team to go through the ICC ruling.......only in kenya, the sovereign country!!!!!
..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
jamplu
#7 Posted : Tuesday, January 24, 2012 12:02:36 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 3/25/2010
Posts: 939
Location: Nai
Kihangeri wrote:
And here is your answer.

The Obama administration has called for “accountability on the 2007-2008 post-election violence” following the confirmation of charges of four Kenyans by the International Criminal Court (ICC).

State Department spokeswoman Victoria Nuland urged the Kenyan government, the people of Kenya and the four cited individuals to continue to cooperate fully with the ICC proceedings.

http://www.nation.co.ke/.../-/yx4v1jz/-/index.html

All in all, I want all those involved in the Violence to be hanged. But when a few are selected with precision, then I fear we are being herded to lake Victoria.


So would you been happy if Obama said that the 4 have no case to answer and that nothing happened in Kenya? The Govt of the day has done little to prove they can prosecute the suspects so tuwache tufanyiwe ile kazi tumeshindwa kufanya

Lucid_Iam
#8 Posted : Tuesday, January 24, 2012 1:34:48 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 9/30/2011
Posts: 483
Must Obama have an opinion on everything about every other country even where he and his country does not have mandate since US is not a signatory to Rome statute. Or is his country the biggest financier hence wishing to have control of the court.
Kihangeri
#9 Posted : Tuesday, January 24, 2012 2:12:31 PM
Rank: User


Joined: 11/10/2010
Posts: 550
Location: Junction
jamplu wrote:
Kihangeri wrote:
And here is your answer.

The Obama administration has called for “accountability on the 2007-2008 post-election violence” following the confirmation of charges of four Kenyans by the International Criminal Court (ICC).

State Department spokeswoman Victoria Nuland urged the Kenyan government, the people of Kenya and the four cited individuals to continue to cooperate fully with the ICC proceedings.

http://www.nation.co.ke/.../-/yx4v1jz/-/index.html

All in all, I want all those involved in the Violence to be hanged. But when a few are selected with precision, then I fear we are being herded to lake Victoria.


So would you been happy if Obama said that the 4 have no case to answer and that nothing happened in Kenya? The Govt of the day has done little to prove they can prosecute the suspects so tuwache tufanyiwe ile kazi tumeshindwa kufanya



This is where I need to trend on a fine line. Ruto, Uhuru, Raila, Koskey, Bett, Anyang'nyongo, etc should actually be taken to hell to burn forever. My worry is that America bank rolls ICC, calls the shots there, puts behind bars those US thinks would be a threat to Raila, and Raila gets full American backing. Raila, being who he is, sells Kenya to the Americans, we get screwed by the pigs for the next 20ys. If you cannot see what am seeing, sorry.

In short, anyperson who has brains above average can see the smoke screen. If anybody cared about Kenya, they would have gone to Tanzania and had a Rwandan type tribunal. That way, you arrest most of those who did the actual killing, raping, stealing and burning other ppls property. Sending only 4 of the killers to Malian jails adds no value Justice.

I repeat, I would wish to see ALL those who sat down, planned and implemented the PEV brought to book, castrated and then burnt alive.

Question, who were the others in the Waki list? Why can't we be told? Why are the others walking free? Will taking the Ocampo 4 to hague force the government to arrest the other 5000? Do you see what I mean? Am not defending anybody. All am saying is that something fishy is cooking in this ICC issue and Justice will be sacrificed at the alter of expediency.

America has killed thousands of ppl around the world and thus has no moral authority to comment on the ICC case. A pig cannot recommend to another pig on how to keep its piggery clean if its own is full of sh*t.
By inference, the man is all that Mr Phantom is not: an untrustworthy radical, divisive, too many enemies, a dictator, and a persistent liar...
Gaitho dialogues.


madammary
#10 Posted : Tuesday, January 24, 2012 4:46:34 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 9/23/2011
Posts: 175
Location: Nairobi
CaptainGG wrote:
The judge gave his verdict the way he sees it, the other two judges also gave their. Let us respect their decisions. However, does Judge kaul honestly believe rejecting the Kenyan cases will make the Kenyan Justice system handle them. He needs to face the reality. The victims can only get justice in the Hague.

Keriako Tobiko himself is facing integrity issues with his appointment, do you think he has the capacity and the goodwill to prosecute these guys locally. The government is also partisan is more concerned with protecting the suspects. If the ICC is meant for Africans, then behave in a more civilised manner and no one will take you to Hague. You want to kill and maim and remain free in the name of sovereignty. Give us a break guys.

it's not about kenyan courts having the capacity to try the perpetrators of violence, it's about the admissibility of the charges in the ICC the judge Kaul has issues with. Whether kenyan courts can do their work or not is a non-issue here. I still want justice for the IDP's but let's get real here.
freiks
#11 Posted : Tuesday, January 24, 2012 4:47:54 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 6/8/2010
Posts: 1,732
2012 wrote:
freiks wrote:
I think this is the only Judge who used is head to think others used there heads so that they could have some work to do.


You're so wrong. I respect the Judge who declined but you should know that this was a pretrial court and their work was only to confirm or decline charges. They will not handle the case when it goes to trial nor the appeals that are being launched. Their work concluded yesterday.


I really dont remember completely what happened before 2007 elections, either I found it the way I wanted or somebody wanted me to understand the way he wanted. Before elections PNU was totally on backfoot trying to find out how to win elections, ODM was out there claiming that they have already won the elections courtesy of opinion polls. Some police officers were killed while they were being posted to various police posts. Then the worst of all in most polling stations in ODM strongpoints PNU agents were chased away. I wonder what planning is all about if this was not planned. Back to the judges whoever wants to believe that their work is over must be dreaming that he is peeing. THERE WORK HAS JUST BEGAN
Life is an endless adventure
thuks
#12 Posted : Tuesday, January 24, 2012 8:34:13 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 10/8/2008
Posts: 1,575
http://www.nation.co.ke/...-/102nq8uz/-/index.html

With this kind of backlog, why are we not taking this "help" kindly? What if Hague were to take all cases that have been pending for years and helped us to sort them out - outsource?
I care!
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