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Treasury Bills Investing-Procedure?
Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/22/2011 Posts: 1,325
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Drunkard give the specifics eg how much is the contribution, who is in charge of the investments ( his/her qualifications/track record)which equities, time frame etc etc
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Rank: User Joined: 5/3/2011 Posts: 559
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Nabwire wrote:Drunkard give the specifics eg how much is the contribution, who is in charge of the investments ( his/her qualifications/track record)which equities, time frame etc etc The minimum investment in $10,000 and the Maximum for non-management members is $20,000, The fund is managed by 16 people which are also the majority owners of the fun, the people who manage the fund are part-time and hold full-time jobs, the do not take any management fee and only take 30% of the profits. There is no minimum duration of the investment but if you withdraw within six months there is zero return but you'll get back full capital within 24hrs of request for withdraw and you lose the privilage to invest in it again, otherwise all the returns are paid to the investors by the 10th business day at the beginning of each year. 30% is invested in US equity and fixed income and 20% goes to internaltion derivative market, 50% is invested in Kenyan and Africa. Fund managers are ordinary people, non of them is over 30yrs but all have backgrounds and work in financial institutions and public accounting firms.
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/13/2011 Posts: 5,964
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Drunkard wrote:Nabwire wrote:Drunkard give the specifics eg how much is the contribution, who is in charge of the investments ( his/her qualifications/track record)which equities, time frame etc etc The minimum investment in $10,000 and the Maximum for non-management members is $20,000, The fund is managed by 16 people which are also the majority owners of the fun, the people who manage the fund are part-time and hold full-time jobs, the do not take any management fee and only take 30% of the profits. There is no minimum duration of the investment but if you withdraw within six months there is zero return but you'll get back full capital within 24hrs of request for withdraw and you lose the privilage to invest in it again, otherwise all the returns are paid to the investors by the 10th business day at the beginning of each year. 30% is invested in US equity and fixed income and 20% goes to internaltion derivative market, 50% is invested in Kenyan and Africa. Fund managers are ordinary people, non of them is over 30yrs but all have backgrounds and work in financial institutions and public accounting firms. and how will the thinking and actions of 16 heads be harmonised considering this isn't an industrial plant? Better have a full-time or available on call manager(s), trust me, I know. From the wordings the level of commitment is low..u have provided for easy exit even b4 u've started  no lock in, profit sharing in a year, what's the horizon here? Is it long?...aich!
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/22/2011 Posts: 1,325
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Cde Monomotapa wrote:Drunkard wrote:Nabwire wrote:Drunkard give the specifics eg how much is the contribution, who is in charge of the investments ( his/her qualifications/track record)which equities, time frame etc etc The minimum investment in $10,000 and the Maximum for non-management members is $20,000, The fund is managed by 16 people which are also the majority owners of the fun, the people who manage the fund are part-time and hold full-time jobs, the do not take any management fee and only take 30% of the profits. There is no minimum duration of the investment but if you withdraw within six months there is zero return but you'll get back full capital within 24hrs of request for withdraw and you lose the privilage to invest in it again, otherwise all the returns are paid to the investors by the 10th business day at the beginning of each year. 30% is invested in US equity and fixed income and 20% goes to internaltion derivative market, 50% is invested in Kenyan and Africa. Fund managers are ordinary people, non of them is over 30yrs but all have backgrounds and work in financial institutions and public accounting firms. and how will the thinking and actions of 16 heads be harmonised considering this isn't an industrial plant? Better have a full-time or available on call manager(s), trust me, I know. From the wordings the level of commitment is low..u have provided for easy exit even b4 u've started  no lock in, profit sharing in a year, what's the horizon here? Is it long?...aich! Drunkard, thanks, but no thanks. Reasons 1. $10,000 is alot of money to entrust to someone else when I can do it myself, most likely with better returns. 2.Ati managed by 16 people? At first I thought you meant 16 members, 16 managers? Holy smokes!! 3.The fund manager is part time, with a full time job. Hapana nimekataa, I follow the market religiously, I wouldnt trust my money with someone who does it part time. 4.The management takes 30% profit, so basically if you have a $100,000 kitty, and the management is able to double it, they will take $60,000? Or is the 30% subject to the initial capital? Still very steep fee, I'd rather do it myself through my brokerage firm, if I double the $100k, the brokerage firm only takes a flat fee of $7 5. Funds are paid on the 10th Business day of the year, meaning no dividends. You guys have structured this as a mutual fund, only problem is you pay out alot in management fees and still pocket the dividends 6. 30% is invested in US equities and fixed income. First of all imho 30% is too low!! Secondly im not into fixed income, I love risk 7. Fund managers work in Finance & Accounting firms, translates to they basically dont know what they are doing? Just coz you have a degree, especially an Accounting one, doesnt necessarily mean you know how to play the market. So basically it makes no Financial sense for me to join your group, unless you bring me on as a Consultant with hefty fees  I will only take 10% of invested income& profit. The only part that entices me about your portofolio is derivates trade, tell me more pliz
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Rank: User Joined: 5/3/2011 Posts: 559
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@Nabwire, First I don't remember inviting you so lets skip that part. Answers for the questions: 1) If you can do it yourself with better return, thats great, part of the reasons why we decided to pool fund together is because everyone of us have unique skills that we wanted to leverage.
2) Yes 16 managers, that doesn't mean 16 people sit and make decision on whether to invest in Bank of America or not, There are programmers to code trading softwares, there are acountants to check the numbers, there are economists to advice on economics and they're finance people. 3) Yes we're all part-time, we're not day-traders, most of the guys follow the market religiously during their day job and use that knowledge later during the day to execute, we also use programmed trading softwares during the day no need for human presences.
4) yes 30% profits, usually hedge fund take 2% management fee and 20% profit, so since we're not taking management fee, we will take 30% of profits, so if we double you $100 we take $30. we do not touch capital something other managers do.
5) Our investment objective do not include dividend returns and we invest in small cap stock that do not usually pay dividends.
6)yes the ratios are as indicated, when you're managing five figure amount, it is absolutely in line if you put all the money in risk investments, infact you can invest in one stock, but when the number turn to a six and above, you start looking at copula, Gamma, equalities,probabilities and hedging techniques at the same time look for arbitrage opportunities you're not going to just invest carelessly.
7) Fund managers work in Finance & Accounting firms, translates to they basically dont know what they are doing? Again, joining the group was not discuss anywhere and again in my experience in life I can tell you that, show me what you can do and I will show you someone else who can do it better, so don't bash people you don't know what they can do, so humble a little bit. Lastly, If I know you can make money for us, I will absolutely bet on you but first someone else must have recognize you as a great talent. Everyone here have met someone who talk too much and know too little. So what do you have?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/27/2011 Posts: 1,777
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bird_man wrote:So you take a loan of 1M to make about 70K that whole year? You had better even buy cows or plant something.1M for 70K..... At least you will make 70k from other people's money.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/22/2011 Posts: 1,325
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Drunkard Investing 101, take the emotions out, its not personal its just business. Actually I wouldnt be interested even in being a Consultant, coz I would have 16 headaches to deal with. About the Accounting bit, I was relating it to a relative who is CPA MBA , she makes good money but has no investments and has no clue how to invest. I wasnt trying to put them down or anything, I know abit of Accounting but I could def not do what she does and vice versa. On the programming bit, I like to keep things super simple Anyways good luck on your venture.
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Rank: User Joined: 5/3/2011 Posts: 559
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@Nabwire, It is not about you being interested, it is about us being interested in you, the question is are we going to be interested in your services? Part of the reason why it is investment by invitation is, we don't want people investing $100 and calling with $10,000 worth of questions.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/16/2007 Posts: 2,114
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amolo wrote:Another important thing is T Bills pay interest IN ADVANCE. Technically this means you can re-invest the interest the following week to earn interest on the interest. With a bit of luck depending on how you bid you can get interest rates above weighted average for the week (which is used for non competetive bids). 14.836% was weighted average of accepted bids for last week. Some people got higher interest, some lower according to how they bid. If you do not want to risk missing bid AVERAGE. @Amolo, In today's DN I have seen the average 91 day T-Bill bid price for last week's auction was 95.07 If I want to bid AVERAGE for next week's auction,what bid price would I use since the weighted average rate is unknown? Also,in the event of an over-subscription, what factors would be used to reject an application?
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 12/23/2010 Posts: 1,229
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Chaka wrote:amolo wrote:Another important thing is T Bills pay interest IN ADVANCE. Technically this means you can re-invest the interest the following week to earn interest on the interest. With a bit of luck depending on how you bid you can get interest rates above weighted average for the week (which is used for non competetive bids). 14.836% was weighted average of accepted bids for last week. Some people got higher interest, some lower according to how they bid. If you do not want to risk missing bid AVERAGE. @Amolo, In today's DN I have seen the average 91 day T-Bill bid price for last week's auction was 95.07 If I want to bid AVERAGE for next week's auction,what bid price would I use since the weighted average rate is unknown? Also,in the event of an over-subscription, what factors would be used to reject an application? When filling in the form, in the column for bid price, write "Non Competitive" instead of indicating a price.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/16/2007 Posts: 2,114
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Rank: Member Joined: 6/21/2010 Posts: 514 Location: Nairobi
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Nabwire wrote:erifloss wrote:Nabwire wrote:[quote=erifloss]Everything held constant for the year at the current rate of 20.696%, if one rolls over their investment the effective rate will be around 22.35% now where else can one get a safe return like this. 20% is roughly 5% every 3 months, even if we get generous and stretch it to 9% every 3 months, thats only 3% per month!! Nimekataa, there are stocks that rally 10% in a couple of days, I just dont get it. But then again, Im not loking for a safe return. I think you should check the average loss for the last 6 months alone at the NSE and also remember this is an elections year. To be true to ourselves foreigners are the ones who initiate most of the rallies and this year i don't see them coming in but getting out in droves. The economic environment is not also that promising. I'm totally happy with a 20% return.[/quote And here is where the true investors are separated from the wannabes. If you look at the market as being down and that foreigners are fleeing, you miss the half full analogy of this being a great buying opportunity. We all know markets are cyclical, so even if they are fleeing, they will be back  There is money to be made. I see alot of herd mentality here, Tbills are safe, they are not great. It takes great risk to make great money, why would one want to preserve their capital when they could grow it? (Granted there is a chance of "losing" the capital) A good example, EK has more than doubled in less than a week  Granted it is a huge risk coz the comapny may be going to bankruptcy, but no pain no gain. Why in hell would I tie up my money in Tbills for a paltry 3% per month???!!! http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=EK&ql=1
I think you are mistaking what a true investor is all about. A true investor thinks of returns both today and in the future. If i don't preserve my capital, what will i use in the future and remember capital is a scarce resource and if well preserved you'll always make good returns on it. That said, as you've been asked name one company that will give a return of 20%! 1. Interest rates are up with no signal of going down. 2. Though inflation has gone down, all indicators point to it going up which basically means interest rates might be pushed up further. 3. The largest consumers of our horticultural products and tourism are in a financial mess created by their own over-spending and over-borrowing. I don't see this sector growing any further with this trend and remember these are our highest forex earners. This simply means the forex rates will be on their way up again very soon.(Interest rates further up again). 4. If your are in the US, you know what is common about LinkedIn, Groupon, Zynga & Pandora. They all had IPOs in 2011, they are good investments, big but what strikes me is that all but LinkedIn are trading below their IPO prices (Its all over not in Kenya alone) 4. Elections! elections! elections! Simply said Nabwire, i like investing but i love my money more and i hate losing it if i don't see a glimpse of making anything out of any loss. T bills rein supreme as of now. Check these stats: http://www.knbs.or.ke/news/lei112011.pdf
http://www.knbs.or.ke/cpi/cpi122011.pdf
http://www.knbs.or.ke/news/gdp32011.pdf
Smart money had seen this way before and gone for Gold or Govt securities. 'They say money cannot buy me happiness but when i compare when i had none and now, i'm happier' Kevin O'leary
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Rank: User Joined: 5/3/2011 Posts: 559
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Hold on people, I think we've everything mixed up here, first different people have different risk appetites so there is no good for all advice here, someone who is more risk averse will go with T-BILLS and someone who is less risk averse will go with more risk investments. Also investment objective varies from people to people and across different age sets, some people are alittle older or a little stable and are looking to preserve their capital, some are young and looking to make money.
Lastly there is a difference between day-trading and investing, research has shown that buy and hold in the long run make more money than day trading and also in average day traders loose money!
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 12/23/2010 Posts: 1,229
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Drunkard wrote:Hold on people, I think we've everything mixed up here, first different people have different risk appetites so there is no good for all advice here, someone who is more risk averse will go with T-BILLS and someone who is less risk averse will go with more risk investments. Also investment objective varies from people to people and across different age sets, some people are alittle older or a little stable and are looking to preserve their capital, some are young and looking to make money.
Lastly there is a difference between day-trading and investing, research has shown that buy and hold in the long run make more money than day trading and also in average day traders loose money! Stocks vs T/Bills Risk appetite? You have to be a bit nuts not to take a guranteed 20% return on your money right now hoping for returns above 20% in the stock market
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Rank: User Joined: 5/3/2011 Posts: 559
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@ For Sport I wouldnT take the 20% stock and 20% bond guranteed and view it plainly like that, remember there is an inverse relationship between interest rates and the value of the bonds, also you must look at the relationship between spot rates and current T-BILL rates and the implication to the future market rate, in this case required rate of return. If you take a stream of cashflow from TBill and model it with a stream of cashflow from a mutual fund investing in stocks, there is a point on the duration of the bond where the returns converge at this point the intrinsic value of the two investments are equal but beyond this point the mutual fund investor start getting the alpha and the bond investor is exposed to reinvestment risk.
But again, if you're looking at bond and stock market as uncorralated then you can hold that view that.
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