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Kenya’s lost moment and the arrival of the Chinese company
Rank: Elder Joined: 9/23/2009 Posts: 8,083 Location: Enk are Nyirobi
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eboomerang wrote:Gathige wrote:@eboomerang
Nice article sir....
The Chinese model is basically a "government in business". The state literally owns a stake in each major company and foreign operations financed through state banks.
My 2 cents!
Thank you and your comments are spot on! I have been circumventing to also raise this point but glad you brought it up. all the projects are funded by EXIIM bank, after the GOK signs a MOU with the PRC govt. Life is short. Live passionately.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 12/3/2010 Posts: 1,141 Location: Londokwe
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simonkabz wrote:Very informed article. But with the kind of works done by the ministry of public works, I beg to sleep. the type of greed we have with kenyans from small to big we are doomed. good ideas but they just remain that. @ eb ...the comment on black niggaz in your blog reflects the reality on the ground.give a nigga 50 m for roads he will buy a 35m plot in karen transfer 10 m to jersey .put 2m in bank for the court judges and police and 3m for wheelbarrows.yes only 3m will go the road. there are many good policy documents gathering dust in govt offices. we all know what should be done hatujiwezi!!! 2012 is here.Kenya is Ours.Be Part of The Peace Keeping Mission To Protect Our Motherland.Say No To Violence and Tribal Hatred .If you can read this,wewe ni mtu amesoma, usifikirie kama mtu hajaenda shule .Ni Hayo Tu
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/2/2011 Posts: 4,818 Location: -1.2107, 36.8831
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Am yet to read the whole article, but as a local engineer working in South Sudan, am obliged to reply. First, the system is a mess. Thats is the engineering system in Kenya. If you have to do the Thika Road, you will be required to; i. Study at University of Nairobi for your BSc. (this is so for you to be registered as an Engineer), ii. practice under a very, very, very old engineer for at least 5 years ( the engineers act require only 3 years, but you wont't manage the professional interview with them) iii. buy, copy and adjust project design reports, drawings and calculations from other 'non-registerable' well educated kenyans iv. know someone in the interviewing panel, v. Head to registrar of companies and register one, vi. Head to Ministry of Roads and/or Public Works and register with them by forging work experience, machineries and staff members, vii. Register with Kenya National Highways Authority (KeNHA) and be classed in A-F Contractors (you can get any class depending with cash on hand) viii. Tender and camp at the KeNHA and MoR offices for weeks to ensure you 'oil' the right people, ix. hire, old, lazy, retired 'registered' engineers and young, fresh, confused, weakly trained engineering graduates, x. Finally, add the project supervision team (engineers, technicians, accountants, surveyors etc) in to your pay roll, in different names and titles. Then Thika Road will be 'COMPLETED' atleast 2 years after project completion date, 'everyone' will be happy and we just wait for POTHOLES in the onset of the first rains. THIS SYSTEM SUCKS! Receive with simplicity everything that happens to you.” ― Rashi
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Rank: Member Joined: 3/30/2009 Posts: 56
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From experience. Company X, largely locally owned and very experienced is contracted to build a massive housing estate. They incorporate the israelis who have the appropriate experience and work starts. Shells of 5,000 houses are built and then X begins a phased approach to completing the houses.
Phase I, top quality finishing, the houses are a hit and really move.
X gets more cash to continue and that is when the politicos move in and relieve them of the working capital. The project stalls, X is villified and wound up.
A second local outfit is given Phase II and they (of course cut corners, go to bed with the politicos) and the result are a poorly done phase.
Phase III is given to a chinese company and they deliver a master piece, done on time, using quality material and are a marvel.
Phase IV is done by a local company and you guessed it, shoddy.
Lessons:
A local company can deliver, where expertise is short, can collabo to draw on relevant international exeprience.
Even good local companies eventually end up being corrupted by the political class. So,even Naikuni will eventually be corrupted at some point.
What to do? As long as our justice system doesnt work - deliver justice on time and commensurate with the crime (a chicken thief gets 20 years, a hotel thief is still walking free 20 years after the crime) I'm all for giving the chinese all our public sector jobs, funded by Exim.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/21/2011 Posts: 2,032
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Very true, I agree 100%. It is for the same reason we may not achieve vision 2030. Take the southern bypass for example. This will cost 17b and it will be very hard for any notable part of the money to find its way in the Kenyan economy. The Chinese, once they win a contract, do not rent anyone’s house. They build camps with site offices and accommodation so they never leave this facility even on weekends – no spending on entertainment. All the cement will come from China. Most of the workers save for drivers and masons will come from China. In the final analysis, a huge portion of the 17b will find its way back to china and then you and I are left servicing the loan to the last cent. I have a feeling the large presence of Chinese contractors has led to depreciation of the shilling – every end month, these Chinese have to be paid in dollars. Not that I have a soft heart for Kenyan contractors , KURA and KENHA. They are responsible for this mess in the first place!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2007 Posts: 8,776 Location: Cameroon
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peep wrote:From experience. Company X, largely locally owned and very experienced is contracted to build a massive housing estate. They incorporate the israelis who have the appropriate experience and work starts. Shells of 5,000 houses are built and then X begins a phased approach to completing the houses.
Phase I, top quality finishing, the houses are a hit and really move.
X gets more cash to continue and that is when the politicos move in and relieve them of the working capital. The project stalls, X is villified and wound up.
A second local outfit is given Phase II and they (of course cut corners, go to bed with the politicos) and the result are a poorly done phase.
Phase III is given to a chinese company and they deliver a master piece, done on time, using quality material and are a marvel.
Phase IV is done by a local company and you guessed it, shoddy.
Lessons:
A local company can deliver, where expertise is short, can collabo to draw on relevant international exeprience.
Even good local companies eventually end up being corrupted by the political class. So,even Naikuni will eventually be corrupted at some point.
What to do? As long as our justice system doesnt work - deliver justice on time and commensurate with the crime (a chicken thief gets 20 years, a hotel thief is still walking free 20 years after the crime) I'm all for giving the chinese all our public sector jobs, funded by Exim. That is the reason I beleive in benevolent dictators. TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
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Rank: Member Joined: 6/27/2011 Posts: 301 Location: Nairobi
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peep wrote:From experience. Company X, largely locally owned and very experienced is contracted to build a massive housing estate. They incorporate the israelis who have the appropriate experience and work starts. Shells of 5,000 houses are built and then X begins a phased approach to completing the houses.
Phase I, top quality finishing, the houses are a hit and really move.
X gets more cash to continue and that is when the politicos move in and relieve them of the working capital. The project stalls, X is villified and wound up.
A second local outfit is given Phase II and they (of course cut corners, go to bed with the politicos) and the result are a poorly done phase.
Phase III is given to a chinese company and they deliver a master piece, done on time, using quality material and are a marvel.
Phase IV is done by a local company and you guessed it, shoddy.
Lessons:
A local company can deliver, where expertise is short, can collabo to draw on relevant international exeprience.
Even good local companies eventually end up being corrupted by the political class. So,even Naikuni will eventually be corrupted at some point.
What to do? As long as our justice system doesnt work - deliver justice on time and commensurate with the crime (a chicken thief gets 20 years, a hotel thief is still walking free 20 years after the crime) I'm all for giving the chinese all our public sector jobs, funded by Exim. Truly, their are many issues that would need to be addressed in order to provide the necessary environment. That is why it is after some analysis that we see those are the real problems that need to be addressed and the solution to those problems is not to bring in a foreign work force, it solves nothing, really. In relation to you comment on Naikuni, I still believe we are capable of identifying a good CEO whether local or foreigner, they are there.
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Rank: Member Joined: 6/27/2011 Posts: 301 Location: Nairobi
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dunkang wrote:Am yet to read the whole article, but as a local engineer working in South Sudan, am obliged to reply.
First, the system is a mess. Thats is the engineering system in Kenya. If you have to do the Thika Road, you will be required to;
i. Study at University of Nairobi for your BSc. (this is so for you to be registered as an Engineer),
ii. practice under a very, very, very old engineer for at least 5 years ( the engineers act require only 3 years, but you wont't manage the professional interview with them)
iii. buy, copy and adjust project design reports, drawings and calculations from other 'non-registerable' well educated kenyans
iv. know someone in the interviewing panel,
v. Head to registrar of companies and register one,
vi. Head to Ministry of Roads and/or Public Works and register with them by forging work experience, machineries and staff members,
vii. Register with Kenya National Highways Authority (KeNHA) and be classed in A-F Contractors (you can get any class depending with cash on hand)
viii. Tender and camp at the KeNHA and MoR offices for weeks to ensure you 'oil' the right people,
ix. hire, old, lazy, retired 'registered' engineers and young, fresh, confused, weakly trained engineering graduates,
x. Finally, add the project supervision team (engineers, technicians, accountants, surveyors etc) in to your pay roll, in different names and titles.
Then Thika Road will be 'COMPLETED' atleast 2 years after project completion date, 'everyone' will be happy and we just wait for POTHOLES in the onset of the first rains.
THIS SYSTEM SUCKS! As one who works in that area, your sentiments are well understood. Do your best, who knows, the future may present you a chance to effect some changes in that system.
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Rank: Member Joined: 6/27/2011 Posts: 301 Location: Nairobi
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limanika wrote:Very true, I agree 100%. It is for the same reason we may not achieve vision 2030. Take the southern bypass for example. This will cost 17b and it will be very hard for any notable part of the money to find its way in the Kenyan economy. The Chinese, once they win a contract, do not rent anyone’s house. They build camps with site offices and accommodation so they never leave this facility even on weekends – no spending on entertainment. All the cement will come from China. Most of the workers save for drivers and masons will come from China. In the final analysis, a huge portion of the 17b will find its way back to china and then you and I are left servicing the loan to the last cent.....
Excellent!!! that is what we are trying to say. The best we can do for our youth is to create a " kazi kwa vijana" program and offer them slashers and rakes to cut grass a long the roads. Remember that this is an entire government's initiative to combat youth unemployment. If that is not upumbavu, I don't know what is.
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Rank: Chief Joined: 3/24/2010 Posts: 6,779 Location: Black Africa
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Rank: Elder Joined: 5/24/2007 Posts: 1,805
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I still think we were not ready for a change in how we did business. If we had taken the way you recommend, we would be not more than a quarter way of where we are now. We needed the infrastructure done as a matter of urgency after the M01 debacle. The amount of business opportunities created have had a much bigger impact then the savings lost had we set up our own companies. As for the mid size contractors, only about 5% of Kenyan roads are tarmacked so there is still alot of room to grow with simpler project. The jokers we had in this industry did not even buy equipment but oped to 'share' despite all the billions they got. That said, your idea is splendid, but the last 7 years were not its time. Maybe the next 10 years. I Think Therefore I Am
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 12/3/2010 Posts: 1,141 Location: Londokwe
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we've just lost 1.2billion to our local contractors after they repaired a roof of milimani courts. soon after the roof could not start aerials on top of them.nkt to nk mwaniki bros nkt to local contractors.thumbs up to chinese contractors 2012 is here.Kenya is Ours.Be Part of The Peace Keeping Mission To Protect Our Motherland.Say No To Violence and Tribal Hatred .If you can read this,wewe ni mtu amesoma, usifikirie kama mtu hajaenda shule .Ni Hayo Tu
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 12/3/2010 Posts: 1,141 Location: Londokwe
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we've just lost 1.2billion to our local contractors after they repaired a roof of milimani courts. soon after the roof could not start aerials on top of them.nkt to nk mwaniki bros nkt to local contractors.thumbs up to chinese contractors 2012 is here.Kenya is Ours.Be Part of The Peace Keeping Mission To Protect Our Motherland.Say No To Violence and Tribal Hatred .If you can read this,wewe ni mtu amesoma, usifikirie kama mtu hajaenda shule .Ni Hayo Tu
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Rank: Member Joined: 6/27/2011 Posts: 301 Location: Nairobi
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'user' wrote:we've just lost 1.2billion to our local contractors after they repaired a roof of milimani courts. soon after the roof could not start aerials on top of them.nkt to nk mwaniki bros nkt to local contractors.thumbs up to chinese contractors As painful as it is, we need to consider that there are some Kenyans out there who are capable of doing a decent job, let's not loose hope yet. I know the guy below is an architect but just to demonstrate that some people out there are able and willing to do it if only they are accorded the necessary support. http://architecturekenya.com/2010/08/03/kenyan-architect-builds-big-dreams-in-botswana-2/http://www.tecturainternational.com/index.html#
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Rank: Member Joined: 6/27/2011 Posts: 301 Location: Nairobi
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Good point, I will add some contact information. I'm not on twitter at the moment, perhaps I should consider that at some point. I'm not sure what i'd be tweeting about
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2007 Posts: 8,776 Location: Cameroon
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eboomerang wrote:limanika wrote:Very true, I agree 100%. It is for the same reason we may not achieve vision 2030. Take the southern bypass for example. This will cost 17b and it will be very hard for any notable part of the money to find its way in the Kenyan economy. The Chinese, once they win a contract, do not rent anyone’s house. They build camps with site offices and accommodation so they never leave this facility even on weekends – no spending on entertainment. All the cement will come from China. Most of the workers save for drivers and masons will come from China. In the final analysis, a huge portion of the 17b will find its way back to china and then you and I are left servicing the loan to the last cent.....
Excellent!!! that is what we are trying to say. The best we can do for our youth is to create a " kazi kwa vijana" program and offer them slashers and rakes to cut grass a long the the roads. Remember that this is an entire government's initiative to combat youth unemployment. If that is not upumbavu, I don't know what is. @eboom bang on! That KKV thing is the most absurd thing I have heard this decade. Its simply ridiculous to even abuse the innocent Swahili language that much! TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 3/26/2010 Posts: 10 Location: chicago, il
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Great article brother. I would like to say that while I agree with your argument, I beg to differ on one point. This is how i see it...... The Chinese are not that great. There are competent and capable Kenyans , who love Kenya but have chose to stay away. Why, we may ask? because the system is broken. The chinese are able to build these magnificent structures simply because they have created a system that promotes these sort of achievements, and not because they possess an innate quality we don't. The problem in kenya is so wide spread that it will take an exceptional leader to bring meaningful change. I say that we need to look at the chinese for the public-private partnership based system they have created and not for their expertise.I am sad that I am living in a lifetime that Africa is being colonized again and you wonder, don't we ever learn? the Kenyan policy makers are at heart of the problem. And so are the leaders and their ilk.How could they not see the chinese agenda? carrotts and sticks. A MAN FOREWARNED IS A MAN FOREARMED
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Rank: Member Joined: 6/27/2011 Posts: 301 Location: Nairobi
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Sadly, its seems that the birds are now coming home to roost. Workers are taking industrial action left, right and center including very critical areas such as health care and education. We have continually raised the red flag indicating that the development path our government is pursuing is not sustainable and infact it is at the expense of the citizens. One article that appeared on the Daily Nation( Stop pay rises to curb inflation, firms advise) is a clear indication of the results of unsustainable growth. To quote a part of the article.... "We need to generate more income for the country for inflation to come down and the shilling to drop to between Sh80 and Sh85 to the dollar for the economy to start to grow,” the chairman of the Kenya Private Sector Alliance, Mr Patrick Obath, said". In my view, this is exactly what the government failed to do in the beginning; establish a national economic activity that will generate revenue for the government before embarking on heavy loan driven investments. It is in this line of thought that I faulted the vision2030 thing on my blog. How else can we help really?
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Rank: Member Joined: 3/10/2008 Posts: 301 Location: Abu Dhabi
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Nice way of thinking, and agree we should all be heading in that direction.
Problem is, in all deals there's no "free lunch". For Kenyan contractors, some hands have to fed in the name of corruption, while for the Chinese contractors, they have bigger things at stake such as resources (which I beleive are in the fine print of the agreements)
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Rank: Elder Joined: 5/1/2010 Posts: 3,024 Location: Hapa
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Just read that the planned Isiolo resort will be developed by Japanese Port Consultants, the same company that was awarded a contract to develop a terminal at Lamu port. Is there smoke here? Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee. - Muhammad Ali🐝
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