@Seppuku,

I think I agree with you 100%, people worry so much about serving God through the church structures while it is obvious that service to man is service to God, help your neighbor instead of sending money to Vatican or to a pastor to buy flashy cars.

I think most people are brainwashed by the churches and the pastors, I have never tithed all my life, why shoud I? I believe in a supernatural being a creatore of human but why would someone hand me a book, pick a few verses and ask me for my money?

I am a good man, I am not a killer otherwise I woould be in jail, I am not a thieve otherwise I wouldn't have a job, I alway give a few cash to the homeless guy across the street so that he doesn't break into my Car, I do not throw trash because I like my neighborhood clean, I do not break the law because I will lose my job if I do that, I am emotionally stable and happy with everything and if I am not happy with my situation I do not sit and pray and wait for some supernatural God to figure things out for me, I get up and sort my stuff out, so why should I go to church and hand out money?

jemimah thiongo once sung something in the song...UMBEA... asking..
"wewe hutoa ngapi kati ya sadaka ama zako zaliwa zingali mfukoni?"
if you don't tithe don't contribute

I think saying that Christians must tithe takes away the true spirit of cheerful giving and substitutes it with mandatory payment. In the book of Acts, we see Christians giving much more than the tithe but going to the extent of selling their property in order to give to the church and the poor. We do not get a mention of the tithe yet they give much more!

Dear brothers and sisters, why should we limit ourselves to giving 10%? Many Christians get so hung up on the idea of giving 10% that it becomes a religious act that does nothing to please God. Hence the debate on whether to 'tithe from gross or net income'. What God loves most is a cheerful giver: 'Whatever you give is acceptable if you give it eagerly. And give according to what you have, not what you don't have'.(2 Cor 8:12)
It is possible for one to tithe and feel so satisfied (Nimelipa deni ya mwezi huu) that they overlook other people who may be in real need.
We are saved by God's grace and not by our works, and certainly not how much we give.
God loves a cheerful giver, regardless of the ammount (doesn't have to be money, can be anything we own).
One more thing, giving does not have to be to the church for it to please God. Jesus repeatedly talked of giving to the needy (Mathew 6 and many others). Any kind of cheerful giving is service to God, regardless of whom you're giving to.
Even so, it is our duty as followers of Christ to take care of our local churches by giving to them as much as we are able to. After all, they have many expenses to meet: salaries, rent, utilities etc.

The question of what we would be doing if highly hypothetical. May be we would all be Muslims.

May be Africans would have invaded Europe and then realised that Christianity is a "better" faith than their traditional ones.

May be my father and mother would never have met and I would therefore not exist!

May be....

May be...

May be...

So let's not go in that direction.



I used to think along these lines some years back. Then I was hit by a flash of wisdom in the form of two questions:

Q1] Do I have the wisdom to tell which is the more urgent need in society? Am I "qualified" to choose between, say, providing a home for orphans or feeding the poor?

My answer to this was: NO

Q2] Who deserves the credit from society for doing all this good work?

My answer: certainly not me! The needy pray to God for help, therefore the credit should go to Him. If that credit goes to His church, then that's good enough for me.

My 2 cents on this (no pun intended) is that tithing has to be experienced personally.

First give your life to God, so that you consent to Him owning you and all you have. Arguments regarding gross / net become irrelevant.

Second read what the bible says about tithing. You can experiment by living by tithing (or not). No doubt the benefits (or lack thereof) will be experienced.

or on women keeping their heads covered

Kumbe such a good discussion was goin on!

Hello Mtu biz.

What about the sabbath?

Rev 14:12 still talks about the commandments of God. At the end of the world we still see the law of God and faith of Jesus. And both, together make up the patience of the saints, at the end of the world. Faith without works is dead.

Anyway, about tithe, isnt a plain 'thus says the Lord' sufficient to ensure compliance whether we feel like obeying or not? I think it should. If it helps, He is even quoted verbatim, not paraphrased. Malachi 3:7-12. We should not obey only when we feel like. Obedience is better than sacrifice. 1 Samuel 15:22.

And so, man shall not live by bread alone but by every word.. , (Matthew 4:4 & Deuteronomy 8:3). Every word. Yes, every word, both old and new testament words.

I relish the opportunity to engage in good old fashioned bible study with the 'new-testament-only' christians so that we search the scriptures like the Bereans to see if these things are true.

There is complete harmony between the old and new testaments and not a single word in the old testament should be disregard. This assertion should pique the the pentecostal and charismatic christians and they should feel free to grill me on this.

For example lets compare Malachi 3:6 and Hebrews 13:8 & Matthew 4:4 & Deuteronomy 8:3 just to start with.

Its unfortunate that wolves in sheep clothing have twisted the word of God to suit their own ends and to mislead the people. However,
as we embark on this bible study its good to keep in mind that 'And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:' Acts 17:30.

There will come a time when no one will hide behind his pastor or priest.