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Doctors strike
Sober
#61 Posted : Monday, December 05, 2011 6:41:02 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 11/27/2007
Posts: 3,604
From my understanding a Clinical Officer is a medical doctor but with diploma qualification. They can do the same thing as doctors and as long as they are on duty there shouldnt be a cause of alarm.
Otherwise i would like to thank the entire support staff in the health sector for the sacrifice they make in heelping us.
African parents don't know how to say sorry.. the closest you will get to a sorry is a 'have you eaten'
sumuni
#62 Posted : Monday, December 05, 2011 8:10:02 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 6/24/2007
Posts: 111
Location: Afrique
Sober wrote:
From my understanding a Clinical Officer is a medical doctor but with diploma qualification. They can do the same thing as doctors and as long as they are on duty there shouldnt be a cause of alarm.
Otherwise i would like to thank the entire support staff in the health sector for the sacrifice they make in heelping us.

I beg to differ with you as your understanding is a bit flawed. A clinical officer's training does not delve into the subtle intricacies of disease aetiology and pathology. it merely serves to empower them to diagnose common illnesses with overt symptoms. Hence the reason why one course takes 3 years and the other 5 years. the CO course is a course that was designed for a few SSA countries to address the acute shortage of doctors in those countries. They do have their role in primary health care but will never be replacements for medical doctors. Same applies for dental and pharmacy diploma holders.
Einstein once said a little knowledge is a dangerous thing....You do not want someone treating you for ulcers just because you've been having this pain in your upper abdomen yet it could be a sign of a more serious underlying malaise. so, there's cause for worry and serious dialogue.
It is a curious fact that of all the illusions that beset mankind, none is quite as curious as that tendency to suppose that we are mentally and morally superior to those who differ from us in opinion.
MJ
#63 Posted : Monday, December 05, 2011 9:16:21 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 11/20/2007
Posts: 47
Sober wrote:
From my understanding a Clinical Officer is a medical doctor but with diploma qualification. They can do the same thing as doctors and as long as they are on duty there shouldnt be a cause of alarm.
Otherwise i would like to thank the entire support staff in the health sector for the sacrifice they make in heelping us.


Truth is, a clinical officer is not a medical doctor. He is a clinician yes, but with limited training and skills, for example-they cannot be deployed for any surgical procedures. it's like equating a technician to an engineer!

Dash
#64 Posted : Tuesday, December 06, 2011 6:57:12 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 3/24/2010
Posts: 677
Location: Nairobi
Day two? Just seen on facebook the way the docs are mulikaing mwizi on the docs who are going against the rest and continuing practicing. So they send word to all the other health centers around the area to transfer all the patients to the practicing doctor to overwhelm him with workLaughing out loudly
jamplu
#65 Posted : Tuesday, December 06, 2011 7:22:36 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 3/25/2010
Posts: 939
Location: Nai
Doctors deserve better pay but they also need to guarantee Kenyans they will dedicate all their time in their Public hospital stations if their demands are met.
tony stark
#66 Posted : Tuesday, December 06, 2011 9:10:04 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 7/8/2008
Posts: 947
jamplu wrote:
Doctors deserve better pay but they also need to guarantee Kenyans they will dedicate all their time in their Public hospital stations if their demands are met.


What you are seeing is actually a mini civil war between the doctors. You have a small group of established consultants who are against the system changing and maintaining the status quo. I will explain the status quo later. On the other side of this war is the young doctors and all doctors(young and old) disenfranchised by the system and this doesn't involve pay only.
The status quo is work for the Government for several years, after 3-5 years being paid peanuts in hard to reach areas with professional and personal isolation you can qualify for a government sponsorship.
You do you master in surgery, paediatrics, medicine etc. then you work for the government. This can be anywhere from the cities to major towns rarely the hard to reach areas. Once you get registered as a consultant you finally get back to a big town or city and establish your clinic. You now have the opportunity to make cash. Majority the "private" doctors middle class nairobians and kenyans in general see are masquerading GoK doctors. But do you blame him he has been waiting for 5 years med school+4-5 years as a medical officer+ 4 years post med school + 4-5 years master + 4 years as a consultant. 20-25 years after finishing form 4 is when he starts earning 300K- 500K when you are in your mid to late 40s.
PS: to get here you have been using loans to fund your postgraduate studies and living and life in general. Your up to your neck in debt and people are surprised when a Doctor ask for 400K for an operation. Its wrong to charge exorbitantly and isn't it surprising that most doctors can't even afford to get treated in some of the hospitals they work eg nairobi hospital and aga khan at health insurance is out of reach.

What the strike is really advocating for is a different way of doing things. First improve services in the shags and doctors wont mind working and living there infact majority of people would love to work and live outside Nairobi. Introduce new ways training that does not involve coming to KNH for 5 year and probably train from the districts. If that cant happen then pay the doctors who work in KNH doing their master. 80% of this student work for 0 shillings per month and pay fees to UON. Please note this is not a full time job it is a life draining job where you work day and night and read in the remaining time.

If services and training improve, the chances of a doctor settling in Kitale or even Lodwar for that matter increase.

If the salary improves you wont have to masquerade in private practice at all PS:Moonlighting is also another life draining activity that doctors have to go through to make ends meet. and private hospitals also exploit the same doctors cause they know the doctors don't have an alternative.

Therefore salaries are not the only thing doctors are fighting for and it is not the key to the problem.

maligumu
#67 Posted : Tuesday, December 06, 2011 12:58:32 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 2/22/2010
Posts: 510
Location: De egg
Where is Minister for Medical Services .
Too quiet !
Peace be with you
bwenyenye
#68 Posted : Tuesday, December 06, 2011 2:24:47 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 5/24/2007
Posts: 1,805
tony stark wrote:
jamplu wrote:
Doctors deserve better pay but they also need to guarantee Kenyans they will dedicate all their time in their Public hospital stations if their demands are met.


What you are seeing is actually a mini civil war between the doctors. You have a small group of established consultants who are against the system changing and maintaining the status quo. I will explain the status quo later. On the other side of this war is the young doctors and all doctors(young and old) disenfranchised by the system and this doesn't involve pay only.
The status quo is work for the Government for several years, after 3-5 years being paid peanuts in hard to reach areas with professional and personal isolation you can qualify for a government sponsorship.
You do you master in surgery, paediatrics, medicine etc. then you work for the government. This can be anywhere from the cities to major towns rarely the hard to reach areas. Once you get registered as a consultant you finally get back to a big town or city and establish your clinic. You now have the opportunity to make cash. Majority the "private" doctors middle class nairobians and kenyans in general see are masquerading GoK doctors. But do you blame him he has been waiting for 5 years med school+4-5 years as a medical officer+ 4 years post med school + 4-5 years master + 4 years as a consultant. 20-25 years after finishing form 4 is when he starts earning 300K- 500K when you are in your mid to late 40s.
PS: to get here you have been using loans to fund your postgraduate studies and living and life in general. Your up to your neck in debt and people are surprised when a Doctor ask for 400K for an operation. Its wrong to charge exorbitantly and isn't it surprising that most doctors can't even afford to get treated in some of the hospitals they work eg nairobi hospital and aga khan at health insurance is out of reach.

What the strike is really advocating for is a different way of doing things. First improve services in the shags and doctors wont mind working and living there infact majority of people would love to work and live outside Nairobi. Introduce new ways training that does not involve coming to KNH for 5 year and probably train from the districts. If that cant happen then pay the doctors who work in KNH doing their master. 80% of this student work for 0 shillings per month and pay fees to UON. Please note this is not a full time job it is a life draining job where you work day and night and read in the remaining time.

If services and training improve, the chances of a doctor settling in Kitale or even Lodwar for that matter increase.

If the salary improves you wont have to masquerade in private practice at all PS:Moonlighting is also another life draining activity that doctors have to go through to make ends meet. and private hospitals also exploit the same doctors cause they know the doctors don't have an alternative.

Therefore salaries are not the only thing doctors are fighting for and it is not the key to the problem.



Well put @Tony. I have always argued here that pay alone will not improve anything for the public. The facilities are what you guys should be striking for ( pay included).

Now, who is that lovely chic (Oops Doc!) I saw on TV at lunchtime..... I am not feeling very well, where does she work...Applause Applause Applause Applause Applause Applause Applause
I Think Therefore I Am
alma
#69 Posted : Tuesday, December 06, 2011 2:58:07 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/20/2007
Posts: 4,432
It all sounds so noble of the doctors, changing the "system". but lets be honest...morality and money don't usually go hand in hand.

Lets not have a strike and claim its for "the country". You want a pay rise and that's it. Hii ingine ya working 20 years to make 500k ni upus. I sell charcoal and will never make that money in 600 yrs.

So doctor's please. You have gone on strike for money.

As you do so, some people are dying. The gov't will use that against you and the strike will come to naught.

Do it better please....like all of you move to botswana or something like that. If you are that good, you don't need the kenyan gov't.
Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
McReggae
#70 Posted : Tuesday, December 06, 2011 3:06:41 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/17/2008
Posts: 23,365
Location: Nairobi
alma wrote:
It all sounds so noble of the doctors, changing the "system". but lets be honest...morality and money don't usually go hand in hand.

Lets not have a strike and claim its for "the country". You want a pay rise and that's it. Hii ingine ya working 20 years to make 500k ni upus. I sell charcoal and will never make that money in 600 yrs.

So doctor's please. You have gone on strike for money. .


...so very true, today if their salary demands are met without a single facility improvement they would all run back to work!!!!
..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
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