wazua Thu, May 7, 2026
Welcome Guest Search | Active Topics | Log In

11 Pages«<56789>»
Bashir's reprisals?
madammary
#61 Posted : Tuesday, December 06, 2011 12:11:00 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 9/23/2011
Posts: 175
Location: Nairobi
Kratos wrote:
I am not in anyway a supporter of Bashir but I believe we need to set our priorities right. A man who has had his plot demolished at Syokimau will not suddenly be inspired by the Justice system if we were to arrest Bashir in his quest for justice. Have we finished with all the "petty" cases we have at the law courts such that we devote time to judgements that are irrelevant to the common mwananchi? Lets stop being pretentious and thinking that the world revolves around Kenya, it does not!

bro, the point u are missing is that we really want 'seperation of powers' and respect of the law adhered to. The syokimau demolitions were an Executive decision made due security concerns. The land was grabbed yes, but the Government was part and parcel of the mess that happened in syokimau. When a judge issued an order to stop the demolitions temporarily so as the case could be heard and maybe resolved, the government decided to take advantage of a technical hitch in the court order and rubbish the judge's order. Apparently the order was served to the wrong people(KAA) and the internal security guys and whoever else they work in cohort with, went on with the demolitions citing that they haven't received the court order though they knew of it's existence. So how is the judiciary to blame?
mnjoro
#62 Posted : Tuesday, December 06, 2011 12:14:06 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 2/21/2009
Posts: 573
madammary wrote:
Kratos wrote:
josiah33 wrote:
YesuWangu wrote:
Kratos wrote:
All these posts later and the proponents cannot say what we are gaining by the arrest warrant. Some Kenyans are such hypocrites! They want to take the high moral ground as if Kenya is any better than Sudan. Most people here don't even know how the war there came about. Before we remove the speck in our neighbours eye shouldn't we first remove the log in ours? This self importance Kenyans have will lead us no where. We do not live in an ideal world and the sooner we get used to it the better for everyone.


What we gain? Lets see.....um..... we gain by rushing to court and solving things in court. Remember some years back people of high morality were telling others of low morality 'Go to court'? Now they themselves don't want anything the court has decided. Talk of hypocrites!

We gain the rule of law, especially when moments of high emotions is around the corner next year. Maybe that is too minute to be mentioned?

What has made people now to change that they don't want things to go to court? Have they replaced the speck in their eyes with the log that they removed from their neighbors eyes?


Boss, you've said it all. Let's start respecting the constitution and upholding the rule of law if we want to become a better kenya.


Facts
1. Bashir is a popularly elected president of Sudan. (Unless someone has facts to the contrary)
2. Sudan is not a signatory of the ICC (We cant force them)
3. The Government of Kenya is not an enforcing arm of the ICC.(How many ICC member States have issued arrest warrants for him)

I am not in anyway a supporter of Bashir but I believe we need to set our priorities right. A man who has had his plot demolished at Syokimau will not suddenly be inspired by the Justice system if we were to arrest Bashir in his quest for justice. Have we finished with all the "petty" cases we have at the law courts such that we devote time to judgements that are irrelevant to the common mwananchi? Lets stop being pretentious and thinking that the world revolves around Kenya, it does not!

FACTS:
1.He might be popularly elected but that's still in doubt since there were massive opposition boycotts and allegations of fraud. He had said he will not seek re-election sometimes back seeing the revolts that were happening in the Arab world meaning he was beginning to doubt his popularity.
2.We are not forcing anything on Sudan and we are not telling them to arrest their own president.
3.Kenya is obliged to arrest Al Bashir if he sets foot in kenya since they agreed to be part and parcel of the Rome Statute. Bashir has travelled to a few countries since the warrants, some trips being cancelled the last minute after the hosts realised it would hurt there other agendas. Some presidents threatened to boycott some function if Al Bashir was present and he had had to reroute on a trip to china after his plane was refused passage over some country's airspace. As you can see governments are scared of him and he has not had the occassion to visit a country that is willing to arrest him or one that doesn't want anything to do with him. Uganda and Rwanda have declared they would arrest him if he sets foot in their countries.

With the way things are going,seems someone gave a golden opportunity to the west.They wanted and i believe still want Sudan and many other African countries to go the Libyan,Algerian and most importantly Egypt way.However Egypt way failed in Sudan when the arrest warrant was issued.The Wset had hoped Sudanese would riot and protest until Bashir get arrested.These guys after being frustrated retreated to their best strategy (lie in waiting for the best opportunity).Thus i ma not be in the know how this case was initiated and by who in Kenya but that ruling gave them the impetus.We are at war and this is not the best time to engage in other countries affairs and worse still not while our Doctors are on strike.Don,t think its time for the government to act carelessly.
McReggae
#63 Posted : Tuesday, December 06, 2011 12:19:01 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/17/2008
Posts: 23,365
Location: Nairobi
The kenyan govt reaction vis a vis the kenyan case at the ICC.....what say you???
..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
madammary
#64 Posted : Tuesday, December 06, 2011 12:22:44 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 9/23/2011
Posts: 175
Location: Nairobi
mnjoro wrote:
madammary wrote:
Kratos wrote:
josiah33 wrote:
YesuWangu wrote:
Kratos wrote:
All these posts later and the proponents cannot say what we are gaining by the arrest warrant. Some Kenyans are such hypocrites! They want to take the high moral ground as if Kenya is any better than Sudan. Most people here don't even know how the war there came about. Before we remove the speck in our neighbours eye shouldn't we first remove the log in ours? This self importance Kenyans have will lead us no where. We do not live in an ideal world and the sooner we get used to it the better for everyone.


What we gain? Lets see.....um..... we gain by rushing to court and solving things in court. Remember some years back people of high morality were telling others of low morality 'Go to court'? Now they themselves don't want anything the court has decided. Talk of hypocrites!

We gain the rule of law, especially when moments of high emotions is around the corner next year. Maybe that is too minute to be mentioned?

What has made people now to change that they don't want things to go to court? Have they replaced the speck in their eyes with the log that they removed from their neighbors eyes?


Boss, you've said it all. Let's start respecting the constitution and upholding the rule of law if we want to become a better kenya.


Facts
1. Bashir is a popularly elected president of Sudan. (Unless someone has facts to the contrary)
2. Sudan is not a signatory of the ICC (We cant force them)
3. The Government of Kenya is not an enforcing arm of the ICC.(How many ICC member States have issued arrest warrants for him)

I am not in anyway a supporter of Bashir but I believe we need to set our priorities right. A man who has had his plot demolished at Syokimau will not suddenly be inspired by the Justice system if we were to arrest Bashir in his quest for justice. Have we finished with all the "petty" cases we have at the law courts such that we devote time to judgements that are irrelevant to the common mwananchi? Lets stop being pretentious and thinking that the world revolves around Kenya, it does not!

FACTS:
1.He might be popularly elected but that's still in doubt since there were massive opposition boycotts and allegations of fraud. He had said he will not seek re-election sometimes back seeing the revolts that were happening in the Arab world meaning he was beginning to doubt his popularity.
2.We are not forcing anything on Sudan and we are not telling them to arrest their own president.
3.Kenya is obliged to arrest Al Bashir if he sets foot in kenya since they agreed to be part and parcel of the Rome Statute. Bashir has travelled to a few countries since the warrants, some trips being cancelled the last minute after the hosts realised it would hurt there other agendas. Some presidents threatened to boycott some function if Al Bashir was present and he had had to reroute on a trip to china after his plane was refused passage over some country's airspace. As you can see governments are scared of him and he has not had the occassion to visit a country that is willing to arrest him or one that doesn't want anything to do with him. Uganda and Rwanda have declared they would arrest him if he sets foot in their countries.

With the way things are going,seems someone gave a golden opportunity to the west.They wanted and i believe still want Sudan and many other African countries to go the Libyan,Algerian and most importantly Egypt way.However Egypt way failed in Sudan when the arrest warrant was issued.The Wset had hoped Sudanese would riot and protest until Bashir get arrested.These guys after being frustrated retreated to their best strategy (lie in waiting for the best opportunity).Thus i ma not be in the know how this case was initiated and by who in Kenya but that ruling gave them the impetus.We are at war and this is not the best time to engage in other countries affairs and worse still not while our Doctors are on strike.Don,t think its time for the government to act carelessly.

the kenyan government has already acted carelessly by trying to appease Al Bashir.
madammary
#65 Posted : Tuesday, December 06, 2011 12:26:25 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 9/23/2011
Posts: 175
Location: Nairobi
McReggae wrote:
The kenyan govt reaction vis a vis the kenyan case at the ICC.....what say you???

what i can say of the kenyan government with regard to the ICC is that it doesn't either know what it wants or they were ratifying ICC to please someone and hoped that they would never have to deal with this damn ICC thing.
mnjoro
#66 Posted : Tuesday, December 06, 2011 12:41:36 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 2/21/2009
Posts: 573
[quote=madammary]
When it comes to who stands to loose most,i don,t think the govt is careless.Think on the effects the no flying- zone and the other embargos would have on freight rates etc.In return would ICC lift charges on our suspects?
alma
#67 Posted : Tuesday, December 06, 2011 12:53:22 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/20/2007
Posts: 4,432
misguided africanism.

question is, did this "soveign" Bashir fellow allow the raping of women and killing of human beings?

Ati African nationalism, my foot!
Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
2012
#68 Posted : Tuesday, December 06, 2011 1:00:29 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/9/2009
Posts: 6,592
Location: Nairobi
I think this is a great moment and test for Kenya. If the Executive does not interfere with the Judiciary on this matter and we already know the CJ's position - then we sit would be a great plus fro this nation if Bashir cuts ties with Kenya. Kenyans faith with in the Judiciary will be renewed.
Question is, do we really need Bashir that badly? I don't think so.

BBI will solve it
:)
josiah33
#69 Posted : Tuesday, December 06, 2011 1:11:26 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 1/27/2011
Posts: 1,777
mnjoro wrote:
[quote=madammary]
When it comes to who stands to loose most,i don,t think the govt is careless.Think on the effects the no flying- zone and the other embargos would have on freight rates etc.In return would ICC lift charges on our suspects?

i doubt the judge had the intention of making it easy for the ocampo six, if anyone wants to make it easy for the ocampo six then it's some people in government. Let Al Bashir carry out his threats and become more alone. Let him gravitate towards Eritrea and support Al Shabaab and the international community and ICC would have more reason to make him pay for his crimes against humanity. Who knows, if kenya hadn't gone to plead with him, he would have been turned into a fugitive like Osama Bin Laden. The only thing that worries me is the Sudan's Comprehensive Peace Accord.
simonkabz
#70 Posted : Wednesday, December 07, 2011 12:33:07 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 3/2/2007
Posts: 8,776
Location: Cameroon
Parliament faults the executive for not preventing the ruling by the Judiciary. Interesting Government we have! A pure comedy to be proud of.
TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
11 Pages«<56789>»
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Copyright © 2026 Wazua.co.ke. All Rights Reserved.