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CBK's CBR shocker @ 16.5% - Playing Serious Hard Ball?!
Impunity
#111 Posted : Tuesday, November 08, 2011 10:59:11 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 3/2/2009
Posts: 26,333
Location: Masada
mwanahisa wrote:
Stanchart has today issued a notice that they are raising their base rate to a whopping 23%. The other day, I was informed some unsecured borrowers are being charged at 13% above base rate of 19% at CFC Stanbic (an astonishing 32%).

Things are indeed thick!!


Some os my friends took unsecured load 2 years ago at 14.75% payable within 5 years, What is their FATE?

Sad Sad
Portfolio: Sold
You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.

2012
#112 Posted : Tuesday, November 08, 2011 11:10:07 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/9/2009
Posts: 6,592
Location: Nairobi
Impunity wrote:
mwanahisa wrote:
Stanchart has today issued a notice that they are raising their base rate to a whopping 23%. The other day, I was informed some unsecured borrowers are being charged at 13% above base rate of 19% at CFC Stanbic (an astonishing 32%).

Things are indeed thick!!


Some os my friends took unsecured load 2 years ago at 14.75% payable within 5 years, What is their FATE?

Sad Sad


The fate is 23-25%. But advise them to look through the contracts. Some have a plus x% and minus x% mostly 3% where the loan celling. But there's also the last line that says the bank reserve all right or something like that in the stupid fine print.

BBI will solve it
:)
accelriskconsult
#113 Posted : Tuesday, November 08, 2011 11:11:51 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 4/2/2011
Posts: 629
Location: Nai
Scubidu wrote:
This is the best argument ive heard against everything ive said. A friend of mine decided to blast me for my views.

its madness... your inflation cannot be domestic demand driven, it is imports driven, ie oil predominantly, raising interest rates will not impact that. current account deficit because consumption is not credit driven. all it will do is kill productivity of the dying domestic manufacturing sector (coz they can't borrow locally at these rates), while encouraging imports, implying a structurally high CA deficit, implying you need world bank again

inflation expectations can only be combated by higher rates if people believe the higher rates are effective. however, there is no consumer borrowing, so it can't be relevant


I'm inclined think there's something i must have missed. This is why in economics no one is right. There's there's more to this story...


Applause argument well thought out. The CBK is ill equipped to target inflation. As many of you will attest to (based on the soft loans that friends have been requesting, number of harambees. goat eatings, consumers seemed to be facing a credit crunch as early as March this year). Whence the money responsible for distorting prices was coming from is a mystery to me. It does not feel like there is a lot of liquidity out there to be mopped up. Certainly, industries such as retail and construction will contract this quarter. Certainly in an economy where banks do not adjust deposit rates upwards but only adjust the lending rates, the effectiveness of increasing interest rates is questionable. Savvy consumers wont rush to deposit their liquid assets with banks (hence zero mopping of cash in form of bank deposits). Certainly liquidity will end up with the CBK in T Bills and Bonds. Unless this money is pumped into infrastucture projects (and we know how slowly absorption takes place), the economy will contract. How fast can treasury put the money in use, is the key factor in resolving the problem.

Banks as usual will refuse to increase deposit rates and resort to interbank/central bank borrowing. Should the CBK continue lending to banks? I have my reservations!
Sufficiently Philanga....thropic
#114 Posted : Tuesday, November 08, 2011 11:18:04 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 9/23/2010
Posts: 2,225
Location: Sundowner,Amboseli
I have a feeling you are talking about yourself!
But even so, this is just temporary.
2013 and thereafter will see as reclaiming ourselves!
@SufficientlyP
Scubidu
#115 Posted : Tuesday, November 08, 2011 9:54:43 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 9/4/2009
Posts: 700
Location: Nairobi
accelriskconsult wrote:
Scubidu wrote:
This is the best argument ive heard against everything ive said. A friend of mine decided to blast me for my views.

its madness... your inflation cannot be domestic demand driven, it is imports driven, ie oil predominantly, raising interest rates will not impact that. current account deficit because consumption is not credit driven. all it will do is kill productivity of the dying domestic manufacturing sector (coz they can't borrow locally at these rates), while encouraging imports, implying a structurally high CA deficit, implying you need world bank again

inflation expectations can only be combated by higher rates if people believe the higher rates are effective. however, there is no consumer borrowing, so it can't be relevant


I'm inclined think there's something i must have missed. This is why in economics no one is right. There's there's more to this story...


Applause argument well thought out. The CBK is ill equipped to target inflation. As many of you will attest to (based on the soft loans that friends have been requesting, number of harambees. goat eatings, consumers seemed to be facing a credit crunch as early as March this year). Whence the money responsible for distorting prices was coming from is a mystery to me. It does not feel like there is a lot of liquidity out there to be mopped up. Certainly, industries such as retail and construction will contract this quarter. Certainly in an economy where banks do not adjust deposit rates upwards but only adjust the lending rates, the effectiveness of increasing interest rates is questionable. Savvy consumers wont rush to deposit their liquid assets with banks (hence zero mopping of cash in form of bank deposits). Certainly liquidity will end up with the CBK in T Bills and Bonds. Unless this money is pumped into infrastucture projects (and we know how slowly absorption takes place), the economy will contract. How fast can treasury put the money in use, is the key factor in resolving the problem.

Banks as usual will refuse to increase deposit rates and resort to interbank/central bank borrowing. Should the CBK continue lending to banks? I have my reservations!


Well thought out... not really... he lacked info, and his solution was exactly inspiring.

He said "The obsession with the currency is just pointless. It's just a number. even the price of gold is declining. sometimes, its better to just do nothing."

He didn't know that the current a/c has now risen from US$2.5 bn in Jan to US$4.0 bn in Sep (short US$1 bn every quarter). That's what causes an exchange rate crisis. And all this during a time when the market is illiquid? The overall BOP dropped from US$199 mn to a deficit of US$220 mn in 9 months. The last time we had a deficit was in July 2009 and in August 2009 we received a general SDR allocation from IMF for BOP support (something many such as Kizee1 doesn't like).

So you want to defend an overvalued shilling... i mentioned all the methods CBK has used to do that, but how do you attract hot money? Forget doing nothing, didn't work well for governor... especially just before an election year.

But let's look at things in a simplistic way, so there has been no liquidity in the market since March, but for some reason banks deposit rates aren't rising. That indeed is strange; how do the banks survive. Somebody must be subsidizing them? And whoever is subsidizing them must be creating the inflation. So the answer is yes... CBK must continue to lend to banks cos no one else seems to be doing it.
“We are the middle children of history man, no purpose or place. We have no great war, no great depression. Our great war is a spiritual war, our great depression is our lives!" – Tyler Durden
hisah
#116 Posted : Wednesday, November 09, 2011 7:12:36 AM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 8/4/2010
Posts: 8,977
@scubidu - I've been wondering why the banks deposit rates are not spiking... But when they do & in a short burst of time, it wont be funny. I hope this scenario does not play out for that money crunch in this CBR environ will squeezed hard.
$15/barrel oil... The commodities lehman moment arrives as well as Sovereign debt volcano!
tony stark
#117 Posted : Wednesday, November 09, 2011 8:59:43 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 7/8/2008
Posts: 947
Why don't they just issue a foreign bond.
Whatever our rating currently is he would still be able to get a cheaper rate without killing domestic borrowing and the economy.
Even with the greece default cloud hanging over our heads I am sure he would still be able to raise the money because everyone is holding on to cash and the other investments avenues are all very grim.
Issue a foreign bond(get you dollars), reduce the CBR(encourage domestic growth) increase import duties on non manufacturing, processed consumables(I know this is not CBK role but should be plan of the strategy, stop listening to world bank or IMF! Never listen to them f***ing devils!
Mainat
#118 Posted : Wednesday, November 09, 2011 9:38:33 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 11/21/2006
Posts: 1,590
The governor has not been up to the task and IMF has stepped to run our monetary policy as well as the fiscal policy.
Sehemu ndio nyumba
Scubidu
#119 Posted : Wednesday, November 09, 2011 1:14:56 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 9/4/2009
Posts: 700
Location: Nairobi
hisah wrote:
@scubidu - I've been wondering why the banks deposit rates are not spiking... But when they do & in a short burst of time, it wont be funny. I hope this scenario does not play out for that money crunch in this CBR environ will squeezed hard.


Liquidity is skewed. Deposit rates are spiking for some folk (Tier 2&3) but not for others. Tier 1s that are expanding their balance sheets quickly like Equity and KCB feel the liquidity crunch but still enjoy cost leadership. The CBK must help the sector i believe that's why overnight is not pegged on today's interbank.
“We are the middle children of history man, no purpose or place. We have no great war, no great depression. Our great war is a spiritual war, our great depression is our lives!" – Tyler Durden
Scubidu
#120 Posted : Wednesday, November 09, 2011 1:18:46 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 9/4/2009
Posts: 700
Location: Nairobi
tony stark wrote:
Why don't they just issue a foreign bond.
Whatever our rating currently is he would still be able to get a cheaper rate without killing domestic borrowing and the economy.
Even with the greece default cloud hanging over our heads I am sure he would still be able to raise the money because everyone is holding on to cash and the other investments avenues are all very grim.
Issue a foreign bond(get you dollars), reduce the CBR(encourage domestic growth) increase import duties on non manufacturing, processed consumables(I know this is not CBK role but should be plan of the strategy, stop listening to world bank or IMF! Never listen to them f***ing devils!


It's not easy to do this!
“We are the middle children of history man, no purpose or place. We have no great war, no great depression. Our great war is a spiritual war, our great depression is our lives!" – Tyler Durden
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