wazua Sun, Nov 17, 2024
Welcome Guest Search | Active Topics | Log In | Register

3 Pages<123>
uncertain future for real estate? bubble bust?
Etwani
#21 Posted : Wednesday, November 02, 2011 1:07:18 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 9/8/2011
Posts: 23
I think real estate development will continue to grow for two main reasons - diaspora money (backed by weak Ksh)and continued use of external financiers
Injere
#22 Posted : Wednesday, November 02, 2011 1:16:02 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 4/7/2010
Posts: 130
To be honest, the writting is on the wall - there will be a correction shortly. The supply of apartments and vacancies has increased.

Wanted to check something with you guys. I have been shown a few units in Nyayo Embakasi, the new phase. This place has thousands on units! Question is: Is this a worthy investment? Prices range about 5M- 5.5M and rents of approx 25-27k. My first concern is the supply - these are thousands of units!! Is capital appreciation a pie in the sky here?
For Sport
#23 Posted : Wednesday, November 02, 2011 2:32:10 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 12/23/2010
Posts: 1,229
According to a survey conducted by the CBK last year, there were about 15,000 mortgage loan accounts (residential properties) in the country. Average loan size is in the 4 - 6.6 m range.

Look up "Mortgage Finance in Kenya: Survey Analysis."

The industry will not crash as a result of a few of them defaulting.
Mainat
#24 Posted : Wednesday, November 02, 2011 3:15:47 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/21/2006
Posts: 1,590
V common misconception re mortgages..According to CBK's june monthly as at end of June, bank loans for real estate, construction and building were Ksh112bn i.e. just over 10% of all loans. If you add in a portion of Ksh118bn to private households, its even higher...
Sehemu ndio nyumba
For Sport
#25 Posted : Wednesday, November 02, 2011 4:20:55 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 12/23/2010
Posts: 1,229
Injere wrote:
To be honest, the writting is on the wall - there will be a correction shortly. The supply of apartments and vacancies has increased.

Wanted to check something with you guys. I have been shown a few units in Nyayo Embakasi, the new phase. This place has thousands on units! Question is: Is this a worthy investment? Prices range about 5M- 5.5M and rents of approx 25-27k. My first concern is the supply - these are thousands of units!! Is capital appreciation a pie in the sky here?


You first asked this question a year ago.
Within the year, a lot has changed. Another phase was sold - at a higher price. If you were thinking of taking a loan to invest, now wouldnt be such a great time. You can ask for opinions here but you must at some point decide.
Injere
#26 Posted : Thursday, November 03, 2011 10:02:20 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 4/7/2010
Posts: 130
ForSport - Thanks! it's true, i still havent made up my mind on this one...still dithering! What's the price of the current lot? Do you know if it's been sold out already?
For Sport
#27 Posted : Thursday, November 03, 2011 12:47:30 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 12/23/2010
Posts: 1,229
Injere wrote:
ForSport - Thanks! it's true, i still havent made up my mind on this one...still dithering! What's the price of the current lot? Do you know if it's been sold out already?


Last ad I saw was for 6.1m for the 3 b/r flat. The same units were sold at 5.28m during the last phase.
I dont know whether they are sold out but you could call NSSF and find out...
githundi
#28 Posted : Thursday, November 03, 2011 1:00:04 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/19/2010
Posts: 1,308
Location: nairobi metropolitan
For Sport wrote:
Injere wrote:
ForSport - Thanks! it's true, i still havent made up my mind on this one...still dithering! What's the price of the current lot? Do you know if it's been sold out already?


Last ad I saw was for 6.1m for the 3 b/r flat. The same units were sold at 5.28m during the last phase.
I dont know whether they are sold out but you could call NSSF and find out...

stanchart has an offes for Nyayo embakasi. Variable rate @ 11.9 and fixed rate for 1st 5 yrs @ 13.5, Term 20 yrs max. If salaried, i can assist on contacts.
Democracy does not belong to the dead
Injere
#29 Posted : Thursday, November 03, 2011 1:08:08 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 4/7/2010
Posts: 130
Thanks @Githundi/ @ForSport - I will follow up on this issue appropriately. Appreciated.
githundi
#30 Posted : Thursday, November 03, 2011 2:51:57 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/19/2010
Posts: 1,308
Location: nairobi metropolitan
Is the demand more than supply? If demand is measured by purchasing power, not just the need for homes, the supply and demand figures are fairly balanced. Note most of purchases for homes, land and vehicles are financed by loans from the banks, and as such, the rise in interest rates will discourage borrowing, or at least the amount the bank is willing to lend. This is because the higher instalments will reduce what one can qualify for while increasing the risk of default for those who have existing loans. The ability to buy will reduce, and consequently reduce real demand on real estate. In the short term at the current interest rates, i expect the prices to stabalize or slightly stagnate. It is for the same reasons that the demand for personal cars will continue to go down as it has always been fuelled by personal loans. Despite the depreciation of the shilling, and contrary to expectations, it will be a buyers market for these cars as result of erosion of disposable income and drying up of personal loans.
Democracy does not belong to the dead
254.co.ke
#31 Posted : Thursday, November 03, 2011 3:34:40 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/17/2006
Posts: 143
After reading this latest report from Hass Consult...http://www.hassconsult.co.ke/in...mp;id=447&Itemid=169...there is possibility of property prices stagnating or even coming down.
Moorings
#32 Posted : Friday, November 04, 2011 8:38:48 AM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 1/3/2011
Posts: 67
Location: nairobi
a colleague put up Ksh. 20m of his seed money and borrowed Ksh. 70m from KCB to put up several apartments for sale in Ongata Rongai. The going has been very trying, he is forced to go back for overdrafts and will have to sell the apartments for much more if he expects to make due with the banks and a modest return. Problem is, interest rate have gone up and few people can afford them coupled with the fact that the prices have gone up.
Cde Monomotapa
#33 Posted : Friday, November 04, 2011 9:27:17 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/13/2011
Posts: 5,964
Moorings wrote:
a colleague put up Ksh. 20m of his seed money and borrowed Ksh. 70m from KCB to put up several apartments for sale in Ongata Rongai. The going has been very trying, he is forced to go back for overdrafts and will have to sell the apartments for much more if he expects to make due with the banks and a modest return. Problem is, interest rate have gone up and few people can afford them coupled with the fact that the prices have gone up.

Ask him to rent the units. Ronga has a thriving rental mkt right now. Plots for devt. sell more in Ronga.
For Sport
#34 Posted : Saturday, November 05, 2011 1:30:28 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 12/23/2010
Posts: 1,229
Injere wrote:
Thanks @Githundi/ @ForSport - I will follow up on this issue appropriately. Appreciated.


Looks like they're closing applications at the end of Dec.
NSSF's Housing Estate Feted for Best Practice
Genghis Khan
#35 Posted : Monday, November 07, 2011 7:51:08 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/5/2010
Posts: 335
Location: Nairobi
Cde Monomotapa wrote:
Moorings wrote:
a colleague put up Ksh. 20m of his seed money and borrowed Ksh. 70m from KCB to put up several apartments for sale in Ongata Rongai. The going has been very trying, he is forced to go back for overdrafts and will have to sell the apartments for much more if he expects to make due with the banks and a modest return. Problem is, interest rate have gone up and few people can afford them coupled with the fact that the prices have gone up.

Ask him to rent the units. Ronga has a thriving rental mkt right now. Plots for devt. sell more in Ronga.

A large / spacious 2 bed unit can go for 20,000bob a month, a 3bed maybe 25k.

Monthly interest on 70m is almost 1m...

Unless he has 50units (fully occupied) the guy is in shit!
"I'd rather be lucky than clever... every time!" - ME
"The problem is not what we don't know... it's what we know for sure that just ain't!" - MARK TWAIN
"Space we can recover... time never!" - NAPOLEON BONAPARTE
Genghis Khan
#36 Posted : Monday, November 07, 2011 8:42:35 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/5/2010
Posts: 335
Location: Nairobi
I think the following would be studied to understand the short - medium term behaviour the economy in general and hence of the property market:

1. War on Al-Shabaab. Will it take 6months, 6years, more than 10yrs?

2. Tourism. Affected directly by the War. We've lost a good profit of the Dec-Mar peak season for 2011/2012. Next year we will lose it to elections. Remember in 2007 the economy was accelerating before the election, this time the economy is bad before elections.

3. East Africa Common Market. Jobs for Kenyans. Market for our product. I think Kenya and Rwanda are most progressive and would benefit most from such an arrangement (also SSudan when we let them in)

4. Oil. If there are indeed large reserves of oil then we are rich if only our leaders don't sell us out to megacorporations. They will, but how badly, how greedy will they be? There may be socio-political costs also: our old ethnic issues may come into play, county borders and local revenues, ancestral lands and compensation etc.


In the short term, 2-5 yrs...

High end property development and prices will slow / decline only marginally;
The low end rental will grow to cope with demand;
Rents will keep going up with interest rates and inflation;
Land prices will keep going up;

In the long term the economy is bullish especially if in the next 2-8yrs...

1. There is an energy cost solution: nuclear, geothermal, wind, hydro, cheaper oil, basically anything...

2. We do not forget to produce food and starve...

3. We become a manufacturing and service industry hub for the region...

4. We do not fight for stolen votes.

5. The constituion is implemented and local governments are WORKING and we can shoulder the cost.

What to do instead of putting up flats for rent/sale in kileleshwa

1. Food production: I would bet on horticulture for direct export.
2. Buy peri-urban land cheaply. Close to strategic towns eg. administrative (county heads), transport (airports, rail, sea ports) economic (Konza, oil towns etc.)
3. NSE post election.
"I'd rather be lucky than clever... every time!" - ME
"The problem is not what we don't know... it's what we know for sure that just ain't!" - MARK TWAIN
"Space we can recover... time never!" - NAPOLEON BONAPARTE
tony stark
#37 Posted : Monday, November 07, 2011 11:05:34 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/8/2008
Posts: 947
Genghis Khan wrote:
I think the following would be studied to understand the short - medium term behaviour the economy in general and hence of the property market:

1. War on Al-Shabaab. Will it take 6months, 6years, more than 10yrs?

2. Tourism. Affected directly by the War. We've lost a good profit of the Dec-Mar peak season for 2011/2012. Next year we will lose it to elections. Remember in 2007 the economy was accelerating before the election, this time the economy is bad before elections.

3. East Africa Common Market. Jobs for Kenyans. Market for our product. I think Kenya and Rwanda are most progressive and would benefit most from such an arrangement (also SSudan when we let them in)

4. Oil. If there are indeed large reserves of oil then we are rich if only our leaders don't sell us out to megacorporations. They will, but how badly, how greedy will they be? There may be socio-political costs also: our old ethnic issues may come into play, county borders and local revenues, ancestral lands and compensation etc.
Tony Stark wrote:
I would also add macro economic factors internal and external. Europe debt crises is leading to dollar appreciation as investors divest from the euro and that was part of the reason for shilling depreciation. The merits and demerits have been discussed elsewhere in Wazua and I wont belabor this point but will add it will have an impact on our economy.
The current interest rates are also a huge factor to consider. When will the CBK reduce their rates 1 year 5 years 10 years?


In the short term, 2-5 yrs...

High end property development and prices will slow / decline only marginally;
The low end rental will grow to cope with demand;
Rents will keep going up with interest rates and inflation;
Land prices will keep going up;

Tony Stark wrote:
I believe the selling prices will reduce or the rate of increase will not be high. I also think the rental yields will definitely improve. So if you are buying to rent it might make more sense especially with low income group houses.
Land is what I can not predict what will happen. I think it migt still continue to increase in value since the land buyers usually buy with SACCO loans or through SACCO and this are not affected by the CBK rate hikes. Therefore credit access to land buyers is not too affected to the best of my knowledge. I stand to be corrected.


In the long term the economy is bullish especially if in the next 2-8yrs...

1. There is an energy cost solution: nuclear, geothermal, wind, hydro, cheaper oil, basically anything...

2. We do not forget to produce food and starve...

3. We become a manufacturing and service industry hub for the region...

4. We do not fight for stolen votes.

5. The constituion is implemented and local governments are WORKING and we can shoulder the cost.

What to do instead of putting up flats for rent/sale in kileleshwa

1. Food production: I would bet on horticulture for direct export.
2. Buy peri-urban land cheaply. Close to strategic towns eg. administrative (county heads), transport (airports, rail, sea ports) economic (Konza, oil towns etc.)
3. NSE post election.
Tony Stark wrote:
I would agree with you but I would bet on horticulture for local consumption. Food prices and going through the roof and urban centres are growing quickly.
I would also bet on NSE now buying by slowly building the portfolio up.
I am not about land.


the deal
#38 Posted : Monday, November 07, 2011 1:30:42 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,534
Location: Windhoek/Nairobbery
New Blog Post: 3 Kenyan Stocks Whose Dividend Yield Beats Your Average Rental Yield http://www.contrarianinv...verage-rental-yield.html
tony stark
#39 Posted : Monday, November 07, 2011 3:04:54 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/8/2008
Posts: 947
[quote=the deal]New Blog Post: 3 Kenyan Stocks Whose Dividend Yield Beats Your Average Rental Yield http://www.contrarianinv...erage-rental-yield.html[/quote]

You just made me happy.
First of without the baseline figures I cant tell whether your calculation are correct or not.
I have a house bought off plan at 4.8 mil and the rent I will get from it is at least 35K. I am sure my rental yield will be 8.4% to begin with and obviously will have capital appreciation in the long term(>8 years)

Point 2 buruburu is not low income that is squarely in the middle class! My colleague has a block of flats in dandora and his yield is 15%. He acquired the land cheaply from a desperate guy.

The comparison you have just made is very subjective. Try harder.
the deal
#40 Posted : Monday, November 07, 2011 5:45:13 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,534
Location: Windhoek/Nairobbery
@tonystark stop being ignorant i said Hass Consult, go to their website u will find property prices and the average rent/month per location in Nairobi, your rental yield according to the parameters you have given me above is 8.75% still lower than the dividend yield of Kenol Kobil...now i want you to calculate yourself your net rental yield and you will see it's much lower.
Users browsing this topic
Guest (5)
3 Pages<123>
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Copyright © 2024 Wazua.co.ke. All Rights Reserved.