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How Corporate America really view Africa
RVP
#21 Posted : Saturday, October 22, 2011 4:34:59 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 5/3/2010
Posts: 69
Interesting points. The BBC article correctly commends US universities. Another interesting angle is the proportion of foreigners in US schools. Not sure if their calculation of country by country grads factor the international students in the US who make their way back to their home countries.

http://chicago.cbslocal....nding-u-s-grad-schools/

[quote=Thiong'o]I think this link has some useful infor. on this discussion

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-14949538[/quote]
tony stark
#22 Posted : Saturday, October 22, 2011 4:42:57 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/8/2008
Posts: 947
the deal wrote:
Unless you travel...live...invest in Africa...you will not know Africa's real story!

Some sense in a thread full paternalistic commentators full of inane and useless advice. THANK YOU!

Any comment starting with "Africa should ....." is the comment of a fool and should be disregarded as such! We should, we can, a particular individual/group of people or company should ... etc are more appropriate.

Regards!
Nabwire
#23 Posted : Sunday, October 23, 2011 12:03:44 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/22/2011
Posts: 1,325


A function of superior law/legal protection of intellectual property rights or a function of superior thinking/innovation ??[/quote]

A function of a superior amount of pilfered money, and excellent tax breaks on investments in R&D. Just to be clear, US schools do not teach students to go think for themselves. The issue here is not so much education- most Kenyan Uni students coming out of secondary school are FAR more educated than their US counterparts. The issue is capital, investment in R&D, funding of small businesses, and tax breaks for doing so.

R&D & money aside, what is stopping a Kenyan company from doing what Chinese firms do and just use the patents and designs for their own products? Lack of vision and willingness to do so. That's really all. There's no reason at all that Kenya can't be a net exporter in six years. But whatever the roadblocks, schooling is not it. Remember, Gates, Jobs, and other "pioneers of industry" dropped out of Uni very early, and secondary school in the US isn't very good at all. They weren't geniuses really, they just had good ideas, and did so in an environment that was supportive of R&D, investment, and small businesses.

It seems simple, but I can't stress enough how important it is to simply find the students with the best KCSE scores, get them together in a warehouse with computers, food, drinks, paper, pens, and tools- and cots and tents, and commit not to leave until something in developed. It has to be funded. Then, hire the best Jua Kali technicians to put it together. That's how it was done in Silicon Valley.

Best,

Hill[/quote]


It makes no sense to bury your heads in the sand, no matter how much you may hate the US, they are still at the forefront, it would make more sense to learn from them then beat them at their own game. There is a saying that keep your friends close and your enemies even closer. Aswe speak, China and other Asian countries are heavily investing on US education, they send over their students coz they have realized that to compete with the US you have to learn their system and policies. At the top US colleges, majority of the students are from Asia. Its funny that you guys deride US education, you have to give credit where it is due. Jason Hill is right that US high schools are crappy and the average high school student from Kenya is much more intelligent than an American one, but what America has perfected is creating wealth out of that knowledge. Drunkard's point was that he is made funof coz of his English, when in the real world, his English doesnt matter as much as his skills. America focuses more on creating and developing skills, we focus more on being learned. Without productivity, there is no use in having eloquent English unless you are aspiring to be a teacher. One thing I have to hand to Americans is they ignore the noise and shoot for the target, you'll find Britons making fun of Americans that they dont speak fluent English but yet the American is making more money, its all about priorities! I dont buy that argument that the US has more tax breaks and more pilfered money, I can argue that Canada, France, Sweden etc also have the same, how come they are not at par with the US? America has instilled in its citizens since day one that everything is a competition, the goal is to become number one, become the best you can be at whateveryou do. Watch any American show, not soaps, its always about some kind of competition, from Jeopardy, Survivor, the Bachelorette even kids shows. They are trained to compete for everything, while the French on the other hand are used to being handed stuff.Jobs may have dropped out of school, but he made sure he took classes that were relevant to him. I think it goes without saying that had he not grown inAmerica, he would not have created Apple.
About developing the jua kali sector, Jason as an AA you are taking alot of things for granted. I didnt know about the importance of branding till I came to the US. They would still have to at some point be taught about marketing,branding, cutomer loyalty, proper pricing, profit margins, incentives,advertising, ROI, timelines &deadlines, patenting etc etc . Whats the use of coming up with something if someone else steals it, or you dont make a profit off of it due to bad pricing or underproduction. I read an article about this lady who was going to Africa and having the women there make hand bags for her company which she in turn would sell to Neiman Marcus. From the African womens's perspective, she was paying them a fair deal when in reality she was making maybe 500 times off of their sweat, its exploitation. It is very important to learn how their system works otherwise you are just throwing punches in the dark. Plus getting an education at their institutions creates a network, ask Obama's inside circle, they are all either people he went to Harvard with or people he worked with in Chicago.If you want to get ahead, you have to play their game!
Drunkard
#24 Posted : Sunday, October 23, 2011 1:27:02 AM
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Joined: 5/3/2011
Posts: 559
Nabwire,

I couldn't agree with you more. If we were smarter than them we would be atleast better than them in one thing. I think we've been drinking alot of kool-aids from our politicians, but unless you visit this countries you'll never know how far behind we're.

jasonhill
#25 Posted : Sunday, October 23, 2011 7:16:05 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/22/2011
Posts: 322
Location: Chicago, IL, USA
@nabwire

Chinese companies struggle with branding. They are generally terrible at it. However, they manufacture goods for export, and thus their meteoric economic rise. They are not "beating the US at their own economic game". They are redefining the game by playing by their own set of rules. That, is a winning strategy. This has nothing to do with "hate" or "preference". This is business. This isn't an emotional process.

Branding is important, but is not a "core" business. Branding is basically a part of marketing, which is very important, however, it is supplemental to the fact that manufacturing the actual product, as well as providing the value-add, is the basis of what's important, and what makes real money. I would not expect nor require Jua Kali technicians to have to know branding- that is what marketing departments and entire marketing firms are for.

Kenya could start 100 marketing and branding firms, and another 1000 resellers to boot; this is nothing compared to starting even ten large manufacturers of finished goods for export. Becoming a net exporter is key in reaching Vision 2030 goals, as is having a self-sustaining economy. This is where more focus should be put, with branding of the finished goods as part of the process. Branding by itself isn't of much use. You can have a product or service without branding, but you can't have branding without a product or service. And none of the branding is of much good globally without starting with "Brand Kenya" first and foremost.

I agree with you that America focuses more on creating and developing skills, whereas Kenya focuses more on being learned. That's part of my point- that education isn't the issue. being "smarter" is not the issue. Turning education into action, and action into a finished product- consistently- is the issue.

I also contend that the tax breaks and available capital are critically important; you can have great ideas and lots of competition, but at the end of the day, it takes money, and a supportive business environment in order to take an idea and turn it into a product, and then to commercialize it.

I disagree with you that, as you said "there is no use in having eloquent English unless you are aspiring to be a teacher." I think that the ability to communicate in a professional and articulate manner- if you are customer facing- in whatever language you communicate in- is very important, especially when seeking financing and support for your projects, as well as when garnering shareholder support and belief in your mission, and, when trying to get clients around the world- sales. But programmers, engineers, scientist... not really a need if they aren't presenting, soliciting investment, or aren't customer-facing.

Lastly, there is indeed great value in traveling and networking when attending US schools, however, if you don't plan ahead to commit to the cost and time financially and realistically, it's easy to find yourself in a network of under-class people that are of no help to you, dropping out of school, and into manoki work. So you must have a plan.

It is very important that we continue this dialog of Kenyans in the diaspora, Kenyans at home, and "new" Kenyans from abroad, that have legally immigrated in. Putting our heads together will yield solutions that will get us firmly IN the global business game, where we can start to see some solid wins and start to get ahead.

So like I always say, if you have an opportunity to go, do so, but be prepared for and honest about what lies ahead financially and mentally. It's not easy and is very tricky, but it is also very doable. And remember to send home all the money that you can.

Best,

Hill
Nabwire
#26 Posted : Sunday, October 23, 2011 12:02:53 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/22/2011
Posts: 1,325
I dont really fel like giving an all out debate on this issue, all I know is that good quality education triumphs all else. The filthy rich insist on giving their heirs good education even though its obvious that their heirs cannot outlive the inheritance, so who are we to think that we already know everything there is to know?
The jua kali angle, you are basically trying to have a monopoly on them where they are employed by you. I thought the whole concept of jua kali was self employment. When you turn that into a factory scenario churning out goods formulated by the A students, you are actually killing the creativity and ingenuity of the jua kali sector. You are not asking to be an equal partner insteadyou want to employ them in a mass factory. Eh isnt that the basic premise of capitalism and more importantly the premise of the American model which you say you are not interested in replicating?
I did not say speaking eloquent English is not good, I said putting the cart before the horse is rather stupid. Why speak eloquently yet you cant make any money from it, Id rather be a non English speaking Chinese/ Japanese anyday while making money than be a Lord of sijui Leicester yet broke!
jasonhill
#27 Posted : Sunday, October 23, 2011 12:23:12 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/22/2011
Posts: 322
Location: Chicago, IL, USA
Good education is important, but if it triumphs all else, how do you explain those that became billionaires without it? How do you explain those with PhDs working for those without any graduate schooling? And this is common all around the world.

I just don't want the focus on how to reach Vision 2030 goals to get lost on education, while important, that's simply not where the focus should be, except to say that there needs to be a higher percentage of the population that has access to it locally.

The "quality" of education is a moving goalpost; if Kenyan students left secondary memorizing every US schoolbook in existence, while being able to paraphrase them and complete every exercise from memory, some Western organization or Western-loving "academic" would self-hate the whole process and find yet another excuse of how to blame the fact that Kenya isn't middle income on education, and start wanting to more closely mirror the failing US system.

I say hogwash, let's start employing the educated, or not so educated, in factories which produce exports, not just talk. And if the West doesn't want the exports, for whatever myriad of excuses and reasons, forget them- focus on products that the rest of Africa, the Middle East, Asia, and Latin American will consume, with their expanding (versus the West's shrinking) middle classes.

As far as Jua Kali technicians, I would hire a number of those that would prefer more steady stable employment with benefits, for those that perform trades that are needed more consistently in the process. For those that would rather remain independent, I would use a project or contract-based scenario with an up-front quality control mechanism that based pay on the delivery of a complete, in-specification product. That's fair. I don't see the point in avoiding this model because you think that it is uniquely Western - it surely isn't. The West doesn't have a "patent" or "trademark" on buying or providing services for hire, which existed long before the West. Fair wages in decent working conditions; what else would you recommend?

In order to avoid hampering creativity, which seems to be one of your concerns, I would fund R&D separately from the operational processes- I don't think that the production line is a place to experiment and be creative. Experimentation should be separate, reviewed, related, tested, etc. and then approved before it influences and integrates into production.

And lastly, I believe that being able to articulate a point, no matter the language, is an important tool in the toolbox of a professional that must interact with people on a regular basis.

Best,

Hill

tony stark
#28 Posted : Sunday, October 23, 2011 4:02:12 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/8/2008
Posts: 947
This tirade is getting boring.
We know all of you are in America, or pretend to be, why don't you move your harangue to a diaspora blog in America. Your what if's solutions are to put it plainly nonsense and poppycock. As you are busy talking we are busy walking.
jasonhill
#29 Posted : Monday, October 24, 2011 9:34:31 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/22/2011
Posts: 322
Location: Chicago, IL, USA
tony stark wrote:
This tirade is getting boring.
We know all of you are in America, or pretend to be, why don't you move your harangue to a diaspora blog in America. Your what if's solutions are to put it plainly nonsense and poppycock. As you are busy talking we are busy walking.


@Tony, the title of the thread is "How Corporate America really view[s] Africa", which is a valid, investment-centric topic, so as long as the posts are on-subject they are welcome here. Your posts on this particular thread have not been helpful, because you've offered no solutions, no analysis, and no new ideas. Do you care to?

We welcome substantive input. Care to add any?

Best,

Hill
Drunkard
#30 Posted : Monday, October 24, 2011 6:59:04 PM
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Joined: 5/3/2011
Posts: 559
@ Mr Hill,

I don't know how much you know Kenyan education system or the sociaty as a whole, one thing I can tell you is that the article point out exactly what we're persived to be. Yes you could be the best educated but if anyone don't think so, whats the use of it? Nabwire pointed out branding and marketing and I am alittle surprised, you being the "executive" how naive you're on the branding and marketing. Look at google, apple, coca cola for instance, what can you say about the relationship between their revenue and the branding? So Nabriwe pointed out something very important, we can teach our students from 6am to 6pm but if we do not focus on the key things then it amount to nothing.You can be the best writer but if you're not fluent when you speak no one will know you can write because nobody will give you an opportunity to write, so speaking right should be first before we can have all the nice words, look at me for instance, I am the worst writer and it doesn't bother me because I don't get paid to write.

Again, I don't know how much you know about Kenya but refusing to accept the fact that we're doing alot of things wrong won't help. If you talk to our politicians they always have everything figured out, but the reality is we have very few things figured out. I see you have alot if "I would do this I would do that" but this is not about what anyone would do it is about what need to be done and the article clearly define what need to be done.

You talked about tax breaks and capital and research and development, this advice is for US and other developed countries but for countries like Kenya, first and foremost we need to implement alot of what the article pointed out. Take for instance the rule of law, R & D money can be set aside but without the rule of law, someone will pocket the entire budget and without political stability our credit rating will always be low leading to high interest rates on debts and poor access to capital for other developments.

Lastly schools around the US give students incentive to innovate because the understand the importance of innovation, business schools around the US atleast have some kind of innovation day, every student across US is trying to be the next google or facebook founder and schools are helping their students be that so that is part of the US education that kenya need to borrow.
Elder
#31 Posted : Monday, October 24, 2011 7:22:10 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/7/2010
Posts: 2,148
Location: elderville
For Sport wrote:
Drunkard wrote:
So no matter how much we think China is coming up, it is out of US that the new ideas will come from, like it or not. Why is that? becuase they teach their students to go think for themselve. Take for instance in 2010 half of the total patents came from the USA 108,000 out of 220,000 patents in 2010 came from the US.


A function of superior law/legal protection of intellectual property rights or a function of superior thinking/innovation ??

The patent system and law in the US is both a joke and a mess. Can't use the quantity to judge anything. This article sums it all up.
He who can express in words the ardour of his love, has but little love to express. - Petrach, Son. (That men by various ways arrive at the same end. - Montaigne, The Essays of.)
Drunkard
#32 Posted : Monday, October 24, 2011 7:52:49 PM
Rank: User


Joined: 5/3/2011
Posts: 559
Elder wrote:
For Sport wrote:
Drunkard wrote:
So no matter how much we think China is coming up, it is out of US that the new ideas will come from, like it or not. Why is that? becuase they teach their students to go think for themselve. Take for instance in 2010 half of the total patents came from the USA 108,000 out of 220,000 patents in 2010 came from the US.


A function of superior law/legal protection of intellectual property rights or a function of superior thinking/innovation ??

The patent system and law in the US is both a joke and a mess. Can't use the quantity to judge anything. This article sums it all up.



That is some else opinion, give yours!
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