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How Corporate America really view Africa
Drunkard
#1 Posted : Thursday, October 20, 2011 12:47:34 AM
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For Sport
#2 Posted : Thursday, October 20, 2011 10:09:31 AM
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Same old stereotypes
Same old excuses

some day corporate america will wake up to find that the beauty contest in which african countries tripped over themselves to attract foreign private capital ended ages ago....the Chinese and others from the East will be firmly here
Cde Monomotapa
#3 Posted : Thursday, October 20, 2011 11:07:11 AM
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For Sport wrote:
Same old stereotypes
Same old excuses

some day corporate america will wake up that the beauty contest in which african countries tripped over themselves to attract foreign private capital ended ages ago....the Chinese and others from the East will be firmly here

True but on the flip KFC have seen the light early. More to come, private capital is attracted to growth in its basic nature.
jasonhill
#4 Posted : Thursday, October 20, 2011 11:16:53 AM
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Joined: 1/22/2011
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Location: Chicago, IL, USA
Cde Monomotapa wrote:
For Sport wrote:
Same old stereotypes
Same old excuses

some day corporate america will wake up that the beauty contest in which african countries tripped over themselves to attract foreign private capital ended ages ago....the Chinese and others from the East will be firmly here

True but on the flip KFC have seen the light early. More to come, private capital is attracted to growth in its basic nature.


Fried Chicken? To me that perpetuates a stereotype if anything.

Also at over $20 per bucket of artery-clogging "goodness", KFC is doing more harm to the local Kenyan economy than good.

We need investments that create REAL professional jobs and infrastructure in Kenya, and not just at the retail level. And we need to increase exports, not increase the amount of imports such as chicken, which competes with locally-grown, locally-prepared chicken which is better tasting and healthier anyhow.

The stereotypes are far worse than that document even mentions, and the fact that Western media never shows anything but African slums, and Western primary and secondary education also perpetuates this, and that the diaspora isn't put to work as salespeople and "brand ambassadors"- makes it worse. All they ever taught us in school about Africa is that that's where we came from, everyone is starving, and that Africans will kill us if we return. They showed us pictures of slums and starving children in Ethiopia. Oh yes, they also mentioned Liberia.

There are three reasons for this; God-forbid the economic loss to the US if African-Americans started retiring, doing business with, investing in, and traveling to Africa, and two, the UK has had a gentlemen's agreement with the US that Africa "belongs to them". Three, blocking capital inflows to Africa, as well as actively hindering development of infrastructure and effective governance, in this fashion keeps countries on the aid dole and in a perfect position to be exploited.

Well over 99% of Americans don't know that any of Africa has electricity, let alone Internet. The questions people ask here in the states about Africa if you mention to them that you are traveling there are downright shocking, and conflicts are no excuse- Mexico, which happens to be on the same continent as the US (and I mention that because Americans think, at least in practice that Africa is just one huge country, not a continent), is in the middle of a multi-year massacre/drug war. That hasn't stopped investment, business, and even tourism.

The best thing that Kenya could do at the moment regarding this is to produce a 30-minute television program that highlights all Kenya has to offer, and pay for it to air on American stations. Even if it aired on TVOne at night, it would at least be an opportunity for people in the US to know something positive, anything positive, about Africa. Because right now, the representation is CNN, AJZ, and Fox, and it's all bad, and it's intentional- it's a complex game, and it's time to start playing to win.

Best,

Hill
Cde Monomotapa
#5 Posted : Thursday, October 20, 2011 11:50:52 AM
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@JH DOW CHEMICALS & MARIOTT are next in line coming into Kenya. Africa will take away more & more global jobs and capital, sit back and watch. Gladly, real investors don't base their decisions on the media entirely. They do their own research.
jasonhill
#6 Posted : Thursday, October 20, 2011 12:26:22 PM
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Location: Chicago, IL, USA
Cde Monomotapa wrote:
@JH DOW CHEMICALS & MARIOTT are next in line coming into Kenya. Africa will take away more & more global jobs and capital, sit back and watch. Gladly, real investors don't base their decisions on the media entirely. They do their own research.


@Comrade, that's good news about Dow and Mariott. There are local professionals in both chemicals and hospitality that will benefit, as well as local sourcing of goods and services that those two enterprises will need.

I wonder if Mariott will purchase Mariot, East Africa's Mariott knock-off, or will pursue them in court to get them to stop using the name (minus one "t") and the logo.

But I beg to differ a small bit about investment decision making; media plays a huge role. Imagine your stockholders, not having done the in-depth research, finding out that you are investing heavily in a region that they deem to be a huge risk... or if you manage a fund that people put their money into and you start to swing it toward Africa, while the common folks that invest in it think that the idea is crazy- there is still a lot of marketing that has to go into investing in Africa, and without the proper "brand representation" to combat the bad press, it's a very hard sell. Good PR is badly needed.

Best,

Hill
Cde Monomotapa
#7 Posted : Thursday, October 20, 2011 12:42:54 PM
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I was talking of the real mariot. It is a single T? Thanks. Bottom line, mass FDI is headed into SSA. This is where the Super Boom & Super Bust will occur off a stiff cocktail of African, Western & Eastern capital. P.S Personally, if I took the media and especially Western, to heart then I wouldn't be happily invested in Zim in an economy now running on the USD and doing 9-10% GDP growth at that (in USD terms). Most media is BS.
jasonhill
#8 Posted : Thursday, October 20, 2011 12:55:36 PM
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Joined: 1/22/2011
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Location: Chicago, IL, USA
No you were correct at first, the real Mariott has two "t"s. The knockoff has one "t". I just wonder how Mariott will handle that- US companies are very sensitive about branding and will "go to war" over similar names and logos. It's not a small issue for US businesses.

Zim is a good example- a good place to invest, but here in the US, they make jokes all day about the value of a Zim dollar, and no investment advisor would dare mention to a client, even in jest, about investing in Zim. Most media is propaganda, but the common investor doesn't know (or doesn't care to know) that.

Here's something interesting:

http://www.tripadvisor.c...-Nairobi-Vacations.html

One of the first things you see is a travel advisory. They might as well print "your life is in danger, don't go!" because that is how most Westerners see such things.

But for Mexico, in the middle of a drug war in which tens of thousands have been killed and people are being tortured and killed by the scores every day, even in the upscale areas:

http://www.tripadvisor.c...lf_Coast-Vacations.html

Getting that travel warning lifted is very, very important. Not to make light of it, but there have been what, three high profile kidnappings in .ke recently? There are more than that in any region of the US in a month, and certainly far, far, FAR more than that in Mexico every week for years.

Best,

Hill
Cde Monomotapa
#9 Posted : Thursday, October 20, 2011 1:14:45 PM
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Posts: 5,964
Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly talk about skewed perception on trip advisor. I'll agree we need big PR for Africa. As I stand now, i'm more interested in FDI into SSA than leisure as that will automatically improve when we get the former right. Nevertheless, Zim & Zambia are poised for a mega tourism & PR boost after their successful joint bid to host the UN-World Tourism Org.summit in 2013, at the Wonder of the World, Victoria Falls which Zim & Zam share. That will be a 150+ countries delegation in one resort town. In the 20yrs of the WTO summits, it will be the 2nd in Africa after Senegal in '05. Ofcourse, Zim & Zam have to get their act together too to make it a success smile all in all, it is an oppurtunity to +vely potray Africa and Zim especially.
Drunkard
#10 Posted : Thursday, October 20, 2011 4:26:15 PM
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Joined: 5/3/2011
Posts: 559
jasonhill wrote:
[quote=Cde Monomotapa][quote=For Sport]Same old stereotypes
Same old excuses

There are three reasons for this; God-forbid the economic loss to the US if African-Americans started retiring, doing business with, investing in, and traveling to Africa, and two, the UK has had a gentlemen's agreement with the US that Africa "belongs to them". Three, blocking capital inflows to Africa, as well as actively hindering development of infrastructure and effective governance, in this fashion keeps countries on the aid dole and in a perfect position to be exploited.

to win.

Best,

Hill


Welcome back sir, for the first time I agree with you in alot of what you said. I want to point out one thing though, there is a difference between American Corporations and American government. I have never worked for US government so I don't know if they make a roundtable meeting and decide which country their corporation are going to invest in and which one are not. What I do know is US corporations make independent business judgement on where to invest and where not to invest based on their fiduciary duties to their investors not because the government or public think they shouldn't. Take for instance Walmart, there has been wide outcry in the US about Walmart business practises in Asia, but Walmart hasn't blink even for a minute another example is Exxon mobil, hunderds of warnings and advisories about doing business in North Africa but Exxon do not blink. My point is US corporation will do business anywhere they think can give them competitive edge regardless of what the US Government says.

Yes I agree with you about the influence of the media on the perception of Africa and I cannot say how much embarrase I am everyday about whats going on in my country and continent as a whole, but I don't think we should blame the media for that, starving people is a reality, corruption is a reality so we need to deal with these issues. I don't know how anyone can justify the disconnect between political aspiration and economic aspiration of the people of Africa. How can a people keep supporting and electing crooks to political offices and at the same time expect these same crooks to deliver them to the promise land? How can anyone defend a government that protect the rich at the expense of the poor so obviously like our government did to Ocampo 6 at the expense of IDPs?
Cde Monomotapa
#11 Posted : Thursday, October 20, 2011 5:24:39 PM
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Walmart got into SA this year BTW with intentions of working their way up the African continent.
jasonhill
#12 Posted : Thursday, October 20, 2011 5:35:01 PM
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Joined: 1/22/2011
Posts: 322
Location: Chicago, IL, USA
Drunkard wrote:
jasonhill wrote:
[quote=Cde Monomotapa][quote=For Sport]Same old stereotypes
Same old excuses

There are three reasons for this; God-forbid the economic loss to the US if African-Americans started retiring, doing business with, investing in, and traveling to Africa, and two, the UK has had a gentlemen's agreement with the US that Africa "belongs to them". Three, blocking capital inflows to Africa, as well as actively hindering development of infrastructure and effective governance, in this fashion keeps countries on the aid dole and in a perfect position to be exploited.

to win.

Best,

Hill


Welcome back sir, for the first time I agree with you in alot of what you said. I want to point out one thing though, there is a difference between American Corporations and American government. I have never worked for US government so I don't know if they make a roundtable meeting and decide which country their corporation are going to invest in and which one are not. What I do know is US corporations make independent business judgement on where to invest and where not to invest based on their fiduciary duties to their investors not because the government or public think they shouldn't. Take for instance Walmart, there has been wide outcry in the US about Walmart business practises in Asia, but Walmart hasn't blink even for a minute another example is Exxon mobil, hunderds of warnings and advisories about doing business in North Africa but Exxon do not blink. My point is US corporation will do business anywhere they think can give them competitive edge regardless of what the US Government says.

Yes I agree with you about the influence of the media on the perception of Africa and I cannot say how much embarrase I am everyday about whats going on in my country and continent as a whole, but I don't think we should blame the media for that, starving people is a reality, corruption is a reality so we need to deal with these issues. I don't know how anyone can justify the disconnect between political aspiration and economic aspiration of the people of Africa. How can a people keep supporting and electing crooks to political offices and at the same time expect these same crooks to deliver them to the promise land? How can anyone defend a government that protect the rich at the expense of the poor so obviously like our government did to Ocampo 6 at the expense of IDPs?


Why hello Rol10ut/DrunKard,

Good to hear that you are still hanging in there ol' chap. Thank you for your fairly supportive words.

First, I think that you have to remember that American corporations pretty much own the American government. This is because of lobbying and campaign finance practices, so their efforts are one and the same. Look at all the corporate positioning in the Wikileaks files.

Second, the reason that public outcry about Walmart and Exxon Mobil doesn't affect their decision making is because at the end of the day, Americans need the oil, and they need the cheap groceries. Walmart's market dominance is second to none; there aren't many alternatives at the price point. Same with big oil. So love them or hate them, you'll be complaining while in their checkout line.

Third, true, there is starvation, corruption, and a disconnect between political and economic aspiration in Africa, but that's true of any and every continent and country in the world to a degree. I don't see how it could be determined that African nations have these issues any more so than say, India.

One major point to all my "big ideologies" as you call them is that it doesn't help anyone to be embarrassed about the problems we face; we need to focus on the positives of Africa, not the negatives. We've all been focusing on the negatives, and the situation hasn't improved. The fact of the matter is that, such as with my example about travel warnings about Mexico versus Kenya, there is indeed a a media "blackout" on all things positive going on in Africa. Any African that has lived in the US more than a year can plainly see it. And this has to be worked around with a solid PR campaign.

But you being embarrassed is not the answer; every Kenyan in the diaspora should be a "brand ambassador". Be proud, and focus on the good things. You can't get anyone excited and wanting to invest if you yourself aren't excited and ready to do so yourself.

When's the last time you told someone about the solid yields on Kenyan Bonds?

Best,

Hill
Drunkard
#13 Posted : Thursday, October 20, 2011 5:46:25 PM
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Cde Monomotapa wrote:
Walmart got into SA this year BTW with intentions of working their way up the African continent.


I don't know if I want to see Walmart retail stores in Africa just yet,I'd prefer to see them working with suppliers.
Thiong'o
#14 Posted : Thursday, October 20, 2011 6:07:39 PM
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I think this link has some useful infor. on this discussion

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-14949538
Drunkard
#15 Posted : Thursday, October 20, 2011 6:56:10 PM
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Posts: 559
[quote=Thiong'o]I think this link has some useful infor. on this discussion

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-14949538[/quote]

I have been smashed so many times in the forum for having poor grammar and that is where our education system fail our kids, we focus on things that doesn't matter while everyone else focus on things that do matter. We focus more on mastering grammar instead of mastering the logics. When I was in college I met international students from Japan they had been in US for 2 yrs and they were speak as good as Americans when it come to the accent then I met fresh summer exchange program students from Korea and they were speaking better english than most Kenyans with 10+ yrs of living in America, so I was curios and I ask them how their schooling system work, especially the English teaching and they told me that in Korea learning spoken english is key in every english teaching institution. The government already identified that their future trading partners are going to be the West and for decades they've up their spoke english to make sure that their people will be able to communicate as clear as possible with the trading partners infact they hire, british and american english teachers just to make sure that their kids get prepare. What are we doing? Mastering written english not spoken and after 16 yrs of english teaching and english as the official language a good part of the population still call election erection!

Another thing, we go to school too much, we do not let our kids think for themselve we teach them everything, you wanna learn excel? one year of college; you want to get a CPA? 2yrs of college; you wanna sit for CFA? Strathmore will teach you. In other countries kids learn these stuff on their own.
Drunkard
#16 Posted : Thursday, October 20, 2011 7:24:27 PM
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So no matter how much we think China is coming up, it is out of US that the new ideas will come from, like it or not. Why is that? becuase they teach their students to go think for themselve. Take for instance in 2010 half of the total patents came from the USA 108,000 out of 220,000 patents in 2010 came from the US.
Nabwire
#17 Posted : Saturday, October 22, 2011 12:30:47 AM
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Did I read that right? Ati in some countries people teach themselves how to be a CPA &CFA? Drunkard, unless CPA has a different meaning that I dont know. Even if you taught yourself, you still have to get the degree from an accredited school.
But you are right, Africa should focus on quality education.
For Sport
#18 Posted : Saturday, October 22, 2011 9:21:59 AM
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Joined: 12/23/2010
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Drunkard wrote:
So no matter how much we think China is coming up, it is out of US that the new ideas will come from, like it or not. Why is that? becuase they teach their students to go think for themselve. Take for instance in 2010 half of the total patents came from the USA 108,000 out of 220,000 patents in 2010 came from the US.


A function of superior law/legal protection of intellectual property rights or a function of superior thinking/innovation ??
the deal
#19 Posted : Saturday, October 22, 2011 10:37:39 AM
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Location: Windhoek/Nairobbery
Unless you travel...live...invest in Africa...you will not know Africa's real story!
jasonhill
#20 Posted : Saturday, October 22, 2011 11:24:35 AM
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Joined: 1/22/2011
Posts: 322
Location: Chicago, IL, USA
For Sport wrote:
Drunkard wrote:
So no matter how much we think China is coming up, it is out of US that the new ideas will come from, like it or not. Why is that? becuase they teach their students to go think for themselve. Take for instance in 2010 half of the total patents came from the USA 108,000 out of 220,000 patents in 2010 came from the US.


A function of superior law/legal protection of intellectual property rights or a function of superior thinking/innovation ??


A function of a superior amount of pilfered money, and excellent tax breaks on investments in R&D. Just to be clear, US schools do not teach students to go think for themselves. The issue here is not so much education- most Kenyan Uni students coming out of secondary school are FAR more educated than their US counterparts. The issue is capital, investment in R&D, funding of small businesses, and tax breaks for doing so.

R&D & money aside, what is stopping a Kenyan company from doing what Chinese firms do and just use the patents and designs for their own products? Lack of vision and willingness to do so. That's really all. There's no reason at all that Kenya can't be a net exporter in six years. But whatever the roadblocks, schooling is not it. Remember, Gates, Jobs, and other "pioneers of industry" dropped out of Uni very early, and secondary school in the US isn't very good at all. They weren't geniuses really, they just had good ideas, and did so in an environment that was supportive of R&D, investment, and small businesses.

It seems simple, but I can't stress enough how important it is to simply find the students with the best KCSE scores, get them together in a warehouse with computers, food, drinks, paper, pens, and tools- and cots and tents, and commit not to leave until something in developed. It has to be funded. Then, hire the best Jua Kali technicians to put it together. That's how it was done in Silicon Valley.

Best,

Hill
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