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ICC Witness accounts
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Insurgent
#51 Posted : Tuesday, October 04, 2011 9:09:37 AM
Rank: User

Joined: 8/6/2010
Posts: 594
willin2learn wrote:
Lolest! wrote:
The prosecution was trying to show that Otieno is unreliable. I think they achieved it. However he did not in any way implicate Ali or the police or mungiki


Think about this way. Most of the Waki Report and KNHRC reports are based on accounts of such witnesses. Now, if some of the witnesses proves unreliable, not sure of what they are saying or couched how reliable is the waki report? Consider also that Prosecution is also heavily relying on those 2 reports.

To the learned friends on wazua. If a witness gives 2 differents accounts of the same event, which one is dismissed?

IMO Otieno's accounts might just be what the judges needs to ask LMO to go do proper investigations.
Sport on.


"One man gives freely, yet gains even more; another withholds unduly, but comes to poverty. A generous man will prosper; he who refreshes others will himself be refreshed." Rev Canon Karanja.
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McReggae
#52 Posted : Tuesday, October 04, 2011 9:39:05 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/17/2008
Posts: 23,365
Location: Nairobi
twisting to suit!!!!!
..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
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famooz
#53 Posted : Tuesday, October 04, 2011 9:46:15 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 11/19/2007
Posts: 2,047
Lolest! wrote:
The prosecution was trying to show that Otieno is unreliable. I think they achieved it. However he did not in any way implicate Ali or the police or mungiki


he he he this is like an octopus.....everything is so interlinked,interrelated......reminds me of goldernburg....you turn on side,the whole 'octopus' turn around
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kenmac
#54 Posted : Tuesday, October 04, 2011 10:00:19 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 5/26/2009
Posts: 1,793
Insurgent wrote:
jimmy1 wrote:
simonkabz wrote:
Aside fm him completely pissing Trendafilova

ekaterina was pissed, but i don't think the witness was looking at the defense side to get any hints on how to answer the question, maybe he was intimidated by the look on the judges faces hence decided to look at the familiar aces i.e the defense

Who said you must maintain eye contact with the judges or prosecutor? Is it in the statutes? Trendafilova was provoking Otieno. You have to take someone the way they are, if shy, not a good stage actor etc. The courts interest should have been what Otieno was ssying and not where he was looking unless he was taking cue (que) from a source.


maintaining a direct contact especially while testifying signfies honesty.
......Ecclesiastes
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YesuWangu
#55 Posted : Tuesday, October 04, 2011 10:04:17 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 8/11/2010
Posts: 1,588
willin2learn wrote:
Lolest! wrote:
The prosecution was trying to show that Otieno is unreliable. I think they achieved it. However he did not in any way implicate Ali or the police or mungiki


Think about this way. Most of the Waki Report and KNHRC reports are based on accounts of such witnesses. Now, if some of the witnesses proves unreliable, not sure of what they are saying or couched how reliable is the waki report? Consider also that Prosecution is also heavily relying on those 2 reports.

To the learned friends on wazua. If a witness gives 2 differents accounts of the same event, which one is dismissed?

IMO Otieno's accounts might just be what the judges needs to ask LMO to go do proper investigations.


I was thinking the opposite. Mr. Otieno was still a defence witness at Wakis commission for the same Ali and Monari was still the defence lawyer.

Now on both occasions, the defence witness has been proved to be unreliable. Him and him alone. That does not in anyway prove the Waki Commission and its Report unreliable.

After Mr. Oti has been shown clear as day to be that terribly consistently unreliable, that his testimony (for the same person with the same lawyer) differ depending on the occasion and location, his defence really has no defence.

Monari should have noted the failure of the Mr. Oti experiment at Waki where Ali was accused. Repeating the same experiment again will still give the same results. Ali will still be accused again for the second time with Mr. Oti as his witness just like in the good old days.







On the flip side, it isnt true that this disaster of Mr. Oti is RAO fault? Please dont be harsh on me.
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masukuma
#56 Posted : Tuesday, October 04, 2011 10:13:59 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,823
Location: Nairobi
kenmac wrote:
Insurgent wrote:
jimmy1 wrote:
simonkabz wrote:
Aside fm him completely pissing Trendafilova

ekaterina was pissed, but i don't think the witness was looking at the defense side to get any hints on how to answer the question, maybe he was intimidated by the look on the judges faces hence decided to look at the familiar aces i.e the defense

Who said you must maintain eye contact with the judges or prosecutor? Is it in the statutes? Trendafilova was provoking Otieno. You have to take someone the way they are, if shy, not a good stage actor etc. The courts interest should have been what Otieno was ssying and not where he was looking unless he was taking cue (que) from a source.


maintaining a direct contact especially while testifying signfies honesty.


the guy is telling his story...that's it. i reckon the more unpolished he looks the more credible he becomes. as long as his story is straight. considering Ocampo has not brought a single witness to be asked questions by the accused. it waters down his case. The right to face your accuser is very important.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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kenmac
#57 Posted : Tuesday, October 04, 2011 10:19:57 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 5/26/2009
Posts: 1,793
perhaps they also observe body language
......Ecclesiastes
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McReggae
#58 Posted : Tuesday, October 04, 2011 10:20:15 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/17/2008
Posts: 23,365
Location: Nairobi
masukuma wrote:
the guy is telling his story...that's it. i reckon the more unpolished he looks the more credible he becomes. as long as his story is straight. considering Ocampo has not brought a single witness to be asked questions by the accused. it waters down his case. The right to face your accuser is very important.


...the more reason the cases will proceed to full trial so he can bring them!!!
..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
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McReggae
#59 Posted : Tuesday, October 04, 2011 4:51:59 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/17/2008
Posts: 23,365
Location: Nairobi
The live witness now: The mungiki are a gang for hire just like the many other gangs in the country!!
..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
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masukuma
#60 Posted : Tuesday, October 04, 2011 6:49:18 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,823
Location: Nairobi
McReggae wrote:
masukuma wrote:
the guy is telling his story...that's it. i reckon the more unpolished he looks the more credible he becomes. as long as his story is straight. considering Ocampo has not brought a single witness to be asked questions by the accused. it waters down his case. The right to face your accuser is very important.


...the more reason the cases will proceed to full trial so he can bring them!!!

the court is not there to prove Ocampo right...I don't think Ocampo and co. know just how much sh*t they have just picked up? They were used to dealing with disorganized rebels who had clear cut cases from Congo....if he thinks Kenya is Congo - atashangaa! so far - it is not looking good for him.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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