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ICC Witness accounts
Rank: Elder Joined: 5/26/2009 Posts: 1,793
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the judges are very pissed with mr. otieno. poor grammer, bad memory, very tensed, ....not a very helpful witness to mr. ali.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/14/2009 Posts: 2,057
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stupid Otieno saying that he is not aware that mungiki were in Naivasha !! And by saying this he was meant to be helping Ali ?? Bure kabisa ...he was more of a prosecution witness ! If you are an eagle don't hang around with chickens; chickens don't fly....
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 12/3/2010 Posts: 1,141 Location: Londokwe
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i think we can only blame Ali's defence lawyers.just like the other witnesses,he was saying what he was coached to say before the court 2012 is here.Kenya is Ours.Be Part of The Peace Keeping Mission To Protect Our Motherland.Say No To Violence and Tribal Hatred .If you can read this,wewe ni mtu amesoma, usifikirie kama mtu hajaenda shule .Ni Hayo Tu
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2007 Posts: 8,776 Location: Cameroon
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On the flipside, has Oti demystified the allegation of police inaction and bias? Aside fm him completely pissing Trendafilova, the prosecution still failed to NAIL Ali thr this witness. It spent all it's time trying to controvert the witness rather than fix the police/Ali. My 2 Ksh. TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
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Rank: Member Joined: 2/11/2011 Posts: 240 Location: jamuhuri ya kenya
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simonkabz wrote:Aside fm him completely pissing Trendafilova ekaterina was pissed, but i don't think the witness was looking at the defense side to get any hints on how to answer the question, maybe he was intimidated by the look on the judges faces hence decided to look at the familiar aces i.e the defense
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/23/2008 Posts: 3,966
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jimmy1 wrote:simonkabz wrote:Aside fm him completely pissing Trendafilova ekaterina was pissed, but i don't think the witness was looking at the defense side to get any hints on how to answer the question, maybe he was intimidated by the look on the judges faces hence decided to look at the familiar aces i.e the defense I thought so too. Then when someone is not articulate it becomes harder. That's a hot seat at the witness box, and many of us would be cringing were we in his shoes. All of us in Kenya would understand his behavior and reaction, so lets not crucify the poor man. But he did show police were as helpful as they could with their stretched resources. Luck is when Preparation meets Opportunity. ~ Lucius Annaeus Seneca
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 5/31/2008 Posts: 1,076
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Otieno was a mistake! The defence counsel should have noticed this well in time. I guess his account wont be relied upon. That is not to mean Ali's case gets any worse. In fact the lawyers presentation was enough. Despite Otieno, it has become clear that the Police didnt deliberately let Mungiki attack people in Naivasha and Nakuru. That lets Ali off the hook. Dunia ni msongamano..
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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The prosecution was trying to show that Otieno is unreliable. I think they achieved it. However he did not in any way implicate Ali or the police or mungiki
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 2/12/2008 Posts: 1,178
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Lolest! wrote:The prosecution was trying to show that Otieno is unreliable. I think they achieved it. However he did not in any way implicate Ali or the police or mungiki Think about this way. Most of the Waki Report and KNHRC reports are based on accounts of such witnesses. Now, if some of the witnesses proves unreliable, not sure of what they are saying or couched how reliable is the waki report? Consider also that Prosecution is also heavily relying on those 2 reports. To the learned friends on wazua. If a witness gives 2 differents accounts of the same event, which one is dismissed? IMO Otieno's accounts might just be what the judges needs to ask LMO to go do proper investigations.
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Rank: User Joined: 8/6/2010 Posts: 594
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jimmy1 wrote:simonkabz wrote:Aside fm him completely pissing Trendafilova ekaterina was pissed, but i don't think the witness was looking at the defense side to get any hints on how to answer the question, maybe he was intimidated by the look on the judges faces hence decided to look at the familiar aces i.e the defense Who said you must maintain eye contact with the judges or prosecutor? Is it in the statutes? Trendafilova was provoking Otieno. You have to take someone the way they are, if shy, not a good stage actor etc. The courts interest should have been what Otieno was ssying and not where he was looking unless he was taking cue (que) from a source.  "One man gives freely, yet gains even more; another withholds unduly, but comes to poverty. A generous man will prosper; he who refreshes others will himself be refreshed." Rev Canon Karanja.
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Rank: User Joined: 8/6/2010 Posts: 594
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willin2learn wrote:Lolest! wrote:The prosecution was trying to show that Otieno is unreliable. I think they achieved it. However he did not in any way implicate Ali or the police or mungiki Think about this way. Most of the Waki Report and KNHRC reports are based on accounts of such witnesses. Now, if some of the witnesses proves unreliable, not sure of what they are saying or couched how reliable is the waki report? Consider also that Prosecution is also heavily relying on those 2 reports. To the learned friends on wazua. If a witness gives 2 differents accounts of the same event, which one is dismissed? IMO Otieno's accounts might just be what the judges needs to ask LMO to go do proper investigations. Sport on. "One man gives freely, yet gains even more; another withholds unduly, but comes to poverty. A generous man will prosper; he who refreshes others will himself be refreshed." Rev Canon Karanja.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/17/2008 Posts: 23,365 Location: Nairobi
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twisting to suit!!!!! ..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/19/2007 Posts: 2,047
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Lolest! wrote:The prosecution was trying to show that Otieno is unreliable. I think they achieved it. However he did not in any way implicate Ali or the police or mungiki he he he this is like an octopus.....everything is so interlinked,interrelated......reminds me of goldernburg....you turn on side,the whole 'octopus' turn around
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Rank: Elder Joined: 5/26/2009 Posts: 1,793
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Insurgent wrote:jimmy1 wrote:simonkabz wrote:Aside fm him completely pissing Trendafilova ekaterina was pissed, but i don't think the witness was looking at the defense side to get any hints on how to answer the question, maybe he was intimidated by the look on the judges faces hence decided to look at the familiar aces i.e the defense Who said you must maintain eye contact with the judges or prosecutor? Is it in the statutes? Trendafilova was provoking Otieno. You have to take someone the way they are, if shy, not a good stage actor etc. The courts interest should have been what Otieno was ssying and not where he was looking unless he was taking cue (que) from a source. maintaining a direct contact especially while testifying signfies honesty.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 8/11/2010 Posts: 1,588
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willin2learn wrote:Lolest! wrote:The prosecution was trying to show that Otieno is unreliable. I think they achieved it. However he did not in any way implicate Ali or the police or mungiki Think about this way. Most of the Waki Report and KNHRC reports are based on accounts of such witnesses. Now, if some of the witnesses proves unreliable, not sure of what they are saying or couched how reliable is the waki report? Consider also that Prosecution is also heavily relying on those 2 reports. To the learned friends on wazua. If a witness gives 2 differents accounts of the same event, which one is dismissed? IMO Otieno's accounts might just be what the judges needs to ask LMO to go do proper investigations. I was thinking the opposite. Mr. Otieno was still a defence witness at Wakis commission for the same Ali and Monari was still the defence lawyer. Now on both occasions, the defence witness has been proved to be unreliable. Him and him alone. That does not in anyway prove the Waki Commission and its Report unreliable. After Mr. Oti has been shown clear as day to be that terribly consistently unreliable, that his testimony (for the same person with the same lawyer) differ depending on the occasion and location, his defence really has no defence. Monari should have noted the failure of the Mr. Oti experiment at Waki where Ali was accused. Repeating the same experiment again will still give the same results. Ali will still be accused again for the second time with Mr. Oti as his witness just like in the good old days. On the flip side, it isnt true that this disaster of Mr. Oti is RAO fault? Please dont be harsh on me.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,822 Location: Nairobi
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kenmac wrote:Insurgent wrote:jimmy1 wrote:simonkabz wrote:Aside fm him completely pissing Trendafilova ekaterina was pissed, but i don't think the witness was looking at the defense side to get any hints on how to answer the question, maybe he was intimidated by the look on the judges faces hence decided to look at the familiar aces i.e the defense Who said you must maintain eye contact with the judges or prosecutor? Is it in the statutes? Trendafilova was provoking Otieno. You have to take someone the way they are, if shy, not a good stage actor etc. The courts interest should have been what Otieno was ssying and not where he was looking unless he was taking cue (que) from a source. maintaining a direct contact especially while testifying signfies honesty. the guy is telling his story...that's it. i reckon the more unpolished he looks the more credible he becomes. as long as his story is straight. considering Ocampo has not brought a single witness to be asked questions by the accused. it waters down his case. The right to face your accuser is very important. All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 5/26/2009 Posts: 1,793
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perhaps they also observe body language
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/17/2008 Posts: 23,365 Location: Nairobi
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masukuma wrote:the guy is telling his story...that's it. i reckon the more unpolished he looks the more credible he becomes. as long as his story is straight. considering Ocampo has not brought a single witness to be asked questions by the accused. it waters down his case. The right to face your accuser is very important. ...the more reason the cases will proceed to full trial so he can bring them!!! ..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/17/2008 Posts: 23,365 Location: Nairobi
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The live witness now: The mungiki are a gang for hire just like the many other gangs in the country!! ..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,822 Location: Nairobi
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McReggae wrote:masukuma wrote:the guy is telling his story...that's it. i reckon the more unpolished he looks the more credible he becomes. as long as his story is straight. considering Ocampo has not brought a single witness to be asked questions by the accused. it waters down his case. The right to face your accuser is very important. ...the more reason the cases will proceed to full trial so he can bring them!!! the court is not there to prove Ocampo right...I don't think Ocampo and co. know just how much sh*t they have just picked up? They were used to dealing with disorganized rebels who had clear cut cases from Congo....if he thinks Kenya is Congo - atashangaa! so far - it is not looking good for him. All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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