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Ocampo loses case against suspect
Rank: Elder Joined: 11/26/2008 Posts: 2,097
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Kratos wrote:Tebes wrote:masukuma wrote:the reason the kikuyu 'mungiki' attacked was because elements in the police refused to stop the violence. it was a backlash. you can check my comments during this time on the then stockskenya website as i explained everything. akina Anyang Nyongo were very careless with their words until they saw that luos too can bleed from the edge of a panga! ] (*,)   Never knew this could come from Masukuma. Why, coz he said the truth? She may be right. Now LMO could just have taken her statement for use against ali and co. Impunity should just be put to an end. I have also been wondering why the missing 'O' in the Ocampo six? "Never regret, if its good, its wonderful. If its bad, its experience."
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 12/4/2009 Posts: 1,982 Location: matano manne
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Drunkard wrote:.... Do you people want Drunkard to explain simple question like this?; were the violence spontaneous? Yes and No, for this matter, Ocampo do not need to prove beyond reasonable doubt, this is not a trial, this is confirmation of charges the only thing Ocampo need to do at the moment is to show probable cause that violence were planned for the case to move to the next stage, however, the defense need to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the violence were not planned for the case to be thrown out; the worst thing that can happen to Ocampo is to be asked to provide additional evidences to support his claims, the best thing that can happen to the defence is a delay of confirmation until Ocampo provide more evidence.
.... There is no question in anyone's mind that, at some stage, the violence were planned, how else did the attackers know where and who is Kikuyu, Kale, luo, luhya? Lets not be foolishly tribal, the violence lasted for 1 full month so there must have been some sort of planning at some stage, you cannot tell a Judge sitting in ICC that for one month people attacked blindly with no plan at all, that is silly. The question is were the people in ICC responsible? at that is what we're trying to get into. All Ocampo need to do is to show probable cause which I think he has already, but when the case move to trial then he will have to prove beyond reasonable doubt. By the way is Ocampo a luo? just wondering!
...... Instead of focusing on third party who is not even in ICC, Uhuru and Muthaura lawyers should have lay all their blames on Ruto and CO and make all Kikuyus to look like the victims trying to defend themselve, infact the center of PEV brutality is church burning which Kikuyus were the victims, self defense cases work better than down right refusal to acknowledge what everyone knows! 
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/30/2006 Posts: 635
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Was the victim's lawyer called Anyah or Wanya? seems Ocampo has been clever to use black lawyers in his team
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,822 Location: Nairobi
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nostoppingthis wrote:Kratos wrote:Tebes wrote:masukuma wrote:the reason the kikuyu 'mungiki' attacked was because elements in the police refused to stop the violence. it was a backlash. you can check my comments during this time on the then stockskenya website as i explained everything. akina Anyang Nyongo were very careless with their words until they saw that luos too can bleed from the edge of a panga! ] (*,) Never knew this could come from Masukuma. Why, coz he said the truth? I thought @masukuma is a she? Wacha matusi bwana! All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,822 Location: Nairobi
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Tebes wrote:Kratos wrote:Tebes wrote:masukuma wrote:the reason the kikuyu 'mungiki' attacked was because elements in the police refused to stop the violence. it was a backlash. you can check my comments during this time on the then stockskenya website as i explained everything. akina Anyang Nyongo were very careless with their words until they saw that luos too can bleed from the edge of a panga! ] (*,) Never knew this could come from Masukuma. Why, coz he said the truth? She may be right. Now LMO could just have taken her statement for use against ali and co. Impunity should just be put to an end. I have also been wondering why the missing 'O' in the Ocampo six? She tena? Let me try and explain what exactly happened in Jan 2008 in Nakuru and Naivasha! Innorro had been preaching peace thru out and people expected that the government would act but didn't. the reason they didn't is because people in the police sympathetic to ODM did not want to act. so ordinary policemen refused to act when Githima and parts of Kaptembwo burnt (We have property and relatives there - i got this information at 'realtime'). the police would stop kikuyus who tried to ask for help and dismissed them with statements like - 'si mulisema kazi iendelee?'. people got so angry and when news spread that the kaleos would sweep all the way from Naks ot naivasha. vijana's jitokezad with makeshift weapons. but they did not find the Kaleos coz the Kaleos were been 'dropped' and picked - they were from mauche. the luos and luhyas were laughing and had declared kaptembwo a no kikuyu zone. vita ikaanza hapo - since they couldn't find the kaleos, they struck the luos. Luos from other parts in naks had to camp in Afraha stadium. this only happened after GITHIMA burnt and KAPTEMBWO was a no kikuyu zone. it happened on the evening of the same day. hii mambo ya planning is nonsense. Ali actually helped in quelling this nonsense when he shuffled policemen and Kisii, meru and Somali policemen were deployed in the hot areas. Anyang nyongo called for peace after seeing his kinmen pulled from a mololine and katakatwad into pieces on TV. the naivasha attacks were somehow diffrent, my sister inlaw was teaching there at the time and some luo prison wardens were arrogating themselves - sparks flew and people burnt. I was always on phone with her during that period.
the rest of you people are like okampo - you have no clue what happened and how things escalated. All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2007 Posts: 8,776 Location: Cameroon
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@mathukuma, Im with you on that one. In recent days, I have been traversing the former central province and that is the exact mood everywhere. We might wish to bury our heads in the sand, spewing arrogance from the comfort of our offices/ homes, but on the ground, things are not as good as I would personally wish. Many here feel shortchanged by the ICC, having suffered the brunt of the PEV far greater than anyone else, and yet the REAL MASTERMINDS behind the unprecedented tribal mayhem still roam free, with apparently no concrete reason/ground to nab them. Truth be told, SOME GUY cannot get any votes from central, if the current contempt and apathy on the ground is anything to go by. The few who support the process do it coz they want Ruto n co. nailed. Which begs the question, who is going to heal this country, which currently smells like the former Yugoslavia...... I personally get pissed by comments like "finally impunity is being contained and justice is being served". How can that be, when those who actually plunged this country to chaos in order to gain power 'by all means' continue to politic, posing as (fake) reformers, while opening unhealed wounds? That aside, who will silence the Luo/kikuyu/Kelenjin and end the incessant war of words every other minute? Who will end the suspiscion? ICC?? Really?? As of today, I feel Luos and other RAO diehards are deriving a false/mistaken sense of justice from the ICC, sice their political enemies are facing jail in the face. Are they aware of the foul mood on the ground by these other communities and the potential risk that comes with it? Justice MUST BE SEEN TO BE DONE if the ICC process is to bear any fruits for ALL KENYANS. Too bad the damage is already done, MO's list wasnt sufficiently inclusive ab initio. I was 100% certain of a peaceful 2012 elections, not anymore, more like 50-50....I'm sure politicians have learnt their lesson though. And the bitterness continues............. PS, Im open to namecalling and/or getting usered. TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/17/2008 Posts: 23,365 Location: Nairobi
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Ukenyatta on twitter: Just getting into the courtroom. Thanks for the prayers and support. ......best episode reserved for today!!!!!! ..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 12/3/2010 Posts: 1,141 Location: Londokwe
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McReggae wrote:Ukenyatta on twitter:
Just getting into the courtroom. Thanks for the prayers and support.
......best episode reserved for today!!!!!! Any 'live text' update ? I dont want to miss as I missed yesterday . 2012 is here.Kenya is Ours.Be Part of The Peace Keeping Mission To Protect Our Motherland.Say No To Violence and Tribal Hatred .If you can read this,wewe ni mtu amesoma, usifikirie kama mtu hajaenda shule .Ni Hayo Tu
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Rank: Member Joined: 2/24/2010 Posts: 637 Location: Nairobi
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masukuma wrote:Tebes wrote:Kratos wrote:Tebes wrote:masukuma wrote:the reason the kikuyu 'mungiki' attacked was because elements in the police refused to stop the violence. it was a backlash. you can check my comments during this time on the then stockskenya website as i explained everything. akina Anyang Nyongo were very careless with their words until they saw that luos too can bleed from the edge of a panga! ] (*,) Never knew this could come from Masukuma. Why, coz he said the truth? She may be right. Now LMO could just have taken her statement for use against ali and co. Impunity should just be put to an end. I have also been wondering why the missing 'O' in the Ocampo six? She tena? Let me try and explain what exactly happened in Jan 2008 in Nakuru and Naivasha! Innorro had been preaching peace thru out and people expected that the government would act but didn't. the reason they didn't is because people in the police sympathetic to ODM did not want to act. so ordinary policemen refused to act when Githima and parts of Kaptembwo burnt (We have property and relatives there - i got this information at 'realtime'). the police would stop kikuyus who tried to ask for help and dismissed them with statements like - 'si mulisema kazi iendelee?'. people got so angry and when news spread that the kaleos would sweep all the way from Naks ot naivasha. vijana's jitokezad with makeshift weapons. but they did not find the Kaleos coz the Kaleos were been 'dropped' and picked - they were from mauche. the luos and luhyas were laughing and had declared kaptembwo a no kikuyu zone. vita ikaanza hapo - since they couldn't find the kaleos, they struck the luos. Luos from other parts in naks had to camp in Afraha stadium. this only happened after GITHIMA burnt and KAPTEMBWO was a no kikuyu zone. it happened on the evening of the same day. hii mambo ya planning is nonsense. Ali actually helped in quelling this nonsense when he shuffled policemen and Kisii, meru and Somali policemen were deployed in the hot areas. Anyang nyongo called for peace after seeing his kinmen pulled from a mololine and katakatwad into pieces on TV.the naivasha attacks were somehow diffrent, my sister inlaw was teaching there at the time and some luo prison wardens were arrogating themselves - sparks flew and people burnt. I was always on phone with her during that period.
the rest of you people are like okampo - you have no clue what happened and how things escalated. N you were happy about it from the way you r expressing it.For your information an uncle of mine was evicted from sondu and his property looted by Luos but i dont find your comments humane enough. The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/17/2008 Posts: 23,365 Location: Nairobi
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'user' wrote:McReggae wrote:Ukenyatta on twitter:
Just getting into the courtroom. Thanks for the prayers and support.
......best episode reserved for today!!!!!! Any 'live text' update ? I dont want to miss as I missed yesterday . Uhuru just walked, not shua if he has his Ipad2 that he carries everyday to court!!! ..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/17/2008 Posts: 23,365 Location: Nairobi
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Beth Mugo,Joseph Gitari, Joseph N Thuo, Mp Kioni,Kibwana in the gallery!!! ..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/22/2008 Posts: 1,139
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simonkabz wrote:@mathukuma, Im with you on that one. In recent days, I have been traversing the former central province and that is the exact mood everywhere. We might wish to bury our heads in the sand, spewing arrogance from the comfort of our offices/ homes, but on the ground, things are not as good as I would personally wish. Many here feel shortchanged by the ICC, having suffered the brunt of the PEV far greater than anyone else, and yet the REAL MASTERMINDS behind the unprecedented tribal mayhem still roam free, with apparently no concrete reason/ground to nab them. Truth be told, SOME GUY cannot get any votes from central, if the current contempt and apathy on the ground is anything to go by. The few who support the process do it coz they want Ruto n co. nailed. Which begs the question, who is going to heal this country, which currently smells like the former Yugoslavia......
I personally get pissed by comments like "finally impunity is being contained and justice is being served". How can that be, when those who actually plunged this country to chaos in order to gain power 'by all means' continue to politic, posing as (fake) reformers, while opening unhealed wounds?
That aside, who will silence the Luo/kikuyu/Kelenjin and end the incessant war of words every other minute? Who will end the suspiscion? ICC?? Really?? As of today, I feel Luos and other RAO diehards are deriving a false/mistaken sense of justice from the ICC, sice their political enemies are facing jail in the face. Are they aware of the foul mood on the ground by these other communities and the potential risk that comes with it? Justice MUST BE SEEN TO BE DONE if the ICC process is to bear any fruits for ALL KENYANS.
Too bad the damage is already done, MO's list wasnt sufficiently inclusive ab initio. I was 100% certain of a peaceful 2012 elections, not anymore, more like 50-50....I'm sure politicians have learnt their lesson though. And the bitterness continues.............
PS, Im open to namecalling and/or getting usered. @Simonkabz, I could not have put it better than that. As I had put it earlier in wazua,the "saints" behind PEV in kenya are walking freely on our streets. "You're not supposed to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who says it". Malcolm X
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,822 Location: Nairobi
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keraka wrote:masukuma wrote:Tebes wrote:Kratos wrote:Tebes wrote:masukuma wrote:the reason the kikuyu 'mungiki' attacked was because elements in the police refused to stop the violence. it was a backlash. you can check my comments during this time on the then stockskenya website as i explained everything. akina Anyang Nyongo were very careless with their words until they saw that luos too can bleed from the edge of a panga! ] (*,) Never knew this could come from Masukuma. Why, coz he said the truth? She may be right. Now LMO could just have taken her statement for use against ali and co. Impunity should just be put to an end. I have also been wondering why the missing 'O' in the Ocampo six? She tena? Let me try and explain what exactly happened in Jan 2008 in Nakuru and Naivasha! Innorro had been preaching peace thru out and people expected that the government would act but didn't. the reason they didn't is because people in the police sympathetic to ODM did not want to act. so ordinary policemen refused to act when Githima and parts of Kaptembwo burnt (We have property and relatives there - i got this information at 'realtime'). the police would stop kikuyus who tried to ask for help and dismissed them with statements like - 'si mulisema kazi iendelee?'. people got so angry and when news spread that the kaleos would sweep all the way from Naks ot naivasha. vijana's jitokezad with makeshift weapons. but they did not find the Kaleos coz the Kaleos were been 'dropped' and picked - they were from mauche. the luos and luhyas were laughing and had declared kaptembwo a no kikuyu zone. vita ikaanza hapo - since they couldn't find the kaleos, they struck the luos. Luos from other parts in naks had to camp in Afraha stadium. this only happened after GITHIMA burnt and KAPTEMBWO was a no kikuyu zone. it happened on the evening of the same day. hii mambo ya planning is nonsense. Ali actually helped in quelling this nonsense when he shuffled policemen and Kisii, meru and Somali policemen were deployed in the hot areas. Anyang nyongo called for peace after seeing his kinmen pulled from a mololine and katakatwad into pieces on TV.the naivasha attacks were somehow diffrent, my sister inlaw was teaching there at the time and some luo prison wardens were arrogating themselves - sparks flew and people burnt. I was always on phone with her during that period.
the rest of you people are like okampo - you have no clue what happened and how things escalated. N you were happy about it from the way you r expressing it.For your information an uncle of mine was evicted from sondu and his property looted by Luos but i dont find your comments humane enough. Boss, I am reporting as it WAS - humane or not. I am not trying to sneak in words like 'organizational' or 'common plan' to all incidences of violence. Infact my relatives have never gone back to their property in Kaptembo - my mum in fact owns 3 plots there and she has never gone back. in 1997, my uncle was ejected from the same area and he came to our place. But the fact of the matter is that the Luo arm of ODM only called for 'peace' when they witnessed the occurrences of Naivasha. I am originally from Naks but was living in Kikuyu then. I can report that the Luos of Sagana, Kikuyu, Kinoo e.t.c. received 'notice' to 'hama' by Mungiki and they went to the police station- if it was that bad (planned kumaliza) they would have been fyekad. but it's not what happened. All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/26/2008 Posts: 2,097
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simonkabz wrote:@ Justice MUST BE SEEN TO BE DONE if the ICC process is to bear any fruits for ALL KENYANS.
Too bad the damage is already done, MO's list wasnt sufficiently inclusive ab initio. I was 100% certain of a peaceful 2012 elections, not anymore, more like 50-50....I'm sure politicians have learnt their lesson though. And the bitterness continues.............
PS, Im open to namecalling and/or getting usered. Justice is not just to the victims, if any or all the O6 are exonorated then they will heve received their justice wich they are dearly fighting for. For sure the list is in all manner "selected" and what with the riddle of the missing "O" in the list. "Never regret, if its good, its wonderful. If its bad, its experience."
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/17/2008 Posts: 23,365 Location: Nairobi
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The govt has always claimed all the time that they are doing everything to nab the perpetrators of PEV, thimioni, BS and co say these people are around and roaming our streets everyday.....is our gava this incompetetent that all the tom, harry and dick at wazua know the guilty ones yet they can't arrest them 4yrs after the crime was committed....mmmhhh!!! ..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
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Rank: Elder Joined: 5/26/2009 Posts: 1,793
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this madam anatetea uhuru Is soo fired up, ...even the expression on anyah's face is groom today.
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Rank: Member Joined: 10/9/2009 Posts: 311
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If nothing else, UK's lawyers seem a little more prepared than Muthaura's. Khan and team were fumbling sometimes with EVD numbers. Too early to tell though. Witness cross examination is the msema kweli. Katika Jangwa la Jangili ndipo Pwagu hupata Pwaguzi.
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Rank: Member Joined: 9/14/2011 Posts: 132 Location: Darasani
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Justice is not when harm begets your rival or enemy, for that matter. Call of tribal, but that's what i think people supporting a certain 'reformer' (who insisted reform has to cost lives of those who don't support him) thinks LMO is a Daniel. All you can do is all you can do; but all you can do is enough!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2007 Posts: 8,776 Location: Cameroon
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Queen's counsel I guess. Not bad at all. TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/22/2009 Posts: 2,449 Location: Africa
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simonkabz wrote:Queen's counsel I guess. Not bad at all. i wonder how much they're being paid. Can't be cheap but well worth it
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Ocampo loses case against suspect
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