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Ruto is terrified
Rank: Veteran Joined: 5/18/2008 Posts: 796
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@Mtibe No no no no... something will happen... Never again will people be surprised in their homes by their own neighbours /their friends. We should all be very afraid for if we do not deal with this culture of impunity today,the next time the slaughter will be much worse especially because revenge attacks will be instantaneous...
So yes,the politicians will not do anything but I fear for the rest of us..
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Rank: Member Joined: 9/25/2008 Posts: 52
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The diference between MK,RAO,IR,AN,UK and others is that they were on different ground but all were fighting the same battle. Believe me they cannot pull the trigger and run to the other end and be killed by the same bullet. The whole group is a recycled material of the fomer two regimes or their seeds. Nothing will be done and those reports will be shelved just like others before. 'Hii ni Kenya na iko na wenyewe,mtaduu?'
BOBB
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Rank: Member Joined: 9/17/2008 Posts: 5
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his best punishment is to face the hangman just like saddam for crimes against humanity.....
stop surviving and start thriving
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/7/2007 Posts: 11,935 Location: Nairobi
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Let our suspects argue some more.By the time they sit to talk,time will be up and Ocampo is rubbing his hands.Anyone who thinks ICC is toothless and will take years to prosecute this thugs is a dreamer.Even if this were to be the case,we are certainly assured the suspects will not be roaming our countrysides while awaiting conviction.They will be cooling off in some cells somewhere until they prove themselves innocent.And why would it matter whether it's my tribal king or not???......a murderer is a murderer is a murderer...... Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm.
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Rank: Member Joined: 10/6/2007 Posts: 60
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Lke it is going to do something about....
GONS....
Government of Northern Sudan.....
fat......
Grand.....
chance.....
Nothing personal.... Kila kitu kiasi...hata ujinga...
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 5/31/2008 Posts: 1,076
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@ Mtibe Come on Mtibe,why such apathy! You got to believe in institutions,local and international,otherwise there would be no rationale in existing,investing etc if you believe and trust nothing. Lest we mislead folks,lets get our facts right,not open ended speculations informed of resignation to fate and anything-goes culture. SK is a forum where contributers are fairly well informed. Why advance an argument straight from the book of impulse decision makers. A tribunal is a court which will try and convict or let go those not found guilty. Local and international Judges of repute will sit in it. Their motivation being jurisprudence. ICC takes over if we are unwilling to take up the matter by way of putting a tribunal in place. You wished to know when,Waki had it all figured out. Six months is the ceiling,if by then we are still dithering ICC moves in swiftly. I dont see any flaws in this,or did I miss out on the rose tint on your specs. Lets leave our gut feelings of of this and start thinking straight with facts,and facts only. B.timer Dunia ni msongamano..
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Rank: Member Joined: 8/25/2008 Posts: 144
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@ mozenrat, i believe you did not read the thread b4 you commented. the issue of FOOTBALL only relates to whether uk is guilty for 'organising' retaliation or not. according to my red card example,he is as guilty if not more than the aggressor. As Kanobi clearly explains,coz of something called 'Motive'.
now,where is the issue of raped women etc mentioned?
Life is too short.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/7/2007 Posts: 11,935 Location: Nairobi
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@B.Timer, Is it six months or 60 days??..... Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm.
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Rank: Member Joined: 9/2/2008 Posts: 20
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@b timer hey i know its hurting to all of us but that is the truth of bad politics. Ocampo to take action?For now he is rubbing his hands for omar el bashir so that sudan can toe the line.Global politics are also dirty. Why isnt ocampo jailing mugabe?Mynamar junta in burma? Nicaraguan president? and many others who evidence has been sufficiently brought before the world and U.N and have killed thousands upon thousands. Ocampo is taking direction from the masters themselves and yes sometime he does better but some time there will be a blind eye.
We need to look at our country those people who lied to us to fight for them are both in the power.If we are dreaming that ocampo and anyone will take action then we will hurt our feelings in the long run.Politics and prosecution is all about interests and is secured then thats all,if not then it will be pursued by all means.
Do i believe in institutions,yes i do believe in the institutions and the courts and they do there work well most of the times.But lets not ignore what has happened and may happen in future.Courts do not operate in vaccum they do their work depending on many factors politics is the major ingredient most of times. Yes waki has done exemplary job but the question is what next now which will be done practically?
I will tell you here in SK after some months that what i told you will be like that cause thats how politics are.Ask mutahi ngunyi,philip ochieng and others and will tell you infact nothing will pass beyond a month and that my friend is not apathy but normal things in this world.Not all facts sometimes are taken into account by the politics.
Investing is tricky
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Rank: Member Joined: 10/6/2007 Posts: 60
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Does Kenya have anything to give???..... oil.... minerals..... technology....politics.... nothing....
Iraq had oil.... Saddam could not be offered to ICC... he would have lived to say it all...
a kangaroo court was formed.... and the poor man hanged....
Sudan has oil..... and a resource rich south..... GONS..... is declared criminal.....
Mugabe.... kicked out the minority MAJORITY white..... a power deal is in the offing....
reason....
land... the whites want......
Felicien Kabuga.....
is he still on the run?????
what has Rwanda to offer????? Gorillas??? Nothing........
Moral of the story..........
If it is nothing but morality fuelling the hunt and prosecution of criminals against humanity....
then its a fat chance...
anything will be done.....
Nothing personal.... Kila kitu kiasi...hata ujinga...
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Rank: Member Joined: 9/2/2008 Posts: 20
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If all goes well in a month i will communicate to you and tell you how things are going on and you will be the one dissapointed by the ongoing events.Let time be the evidence.
Investing is tricky
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 5/31/2008 Posts: 1,076
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@ Njung'e 60 days for appropriate law to be passed in parliament,and another period of 60 days for the tribunal to be put in place. Thanks for being hawk-eyed. Call Akiwumi to preside. Or will Bosire do just fine. Nzamba Kitonga would do a tidy job too. @ Mtibe That's fine now. At least it passes for a balanced opinion,abeit challengeable in a fair debate. B.timer Dunia ni msongamano..
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/23/2008 Posts: 3,017
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I want none of those old bats presiding over any tribunal,the Akiwumi's and the Bosire's of Kenya would not know the law if it slapped them on the face. The old Makerere generation finished campus and found jobs waiting for them,they have never had to work hard to earn anything,Let the generation that was forged through the fires of the late 80's and early 90's and learnt innovation under the Moi era when jobs were disappearing step in. Surely there must be some young (say mid 40's) professional lawyers capable of handling such a tribunal. Is there something like a moneyday "The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/7/2007 Posts: 11,935 Location: Nairobi
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Kanobi, Oh! dear.....!!.The only good lawyers from the generation you talk about are the likes of Kitonga........You whip his Moti and he stabs you with a kitchen knife.Not bad.I guess he would wring the suspects necks with his bare hands instead of wasting time listening to their cries........We can try him. Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/23/2008 Posts: 3,017
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@ Njunge Afadhali huyo,than the old generation,I am so sick of the old men who have been in the system for longer than I have been alive. Waki has atleast produced results and options chap chap. What did Bosire conclude on Goldenberg,was it Patni,Saitoti,Mudavadi,I m I missing something,did we lose 13B or was it all a dream. Is there something like a moneyday "The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 5/18/2008 Posts: 796
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I'm the one raising the issue of rape becoz it is obvious to me that you have lost perspective... You want to reduce a discussion about murder and rape to a competition btw PNU and ODM and that's why u are raising UK name(as if anyone is defending him). He's as guilty as the rest of dithering as the country burnt.
A footballer can choose not to attack his friend becoz all he'll lose is the trophy... Drawing a parallel between a scuffle of footballers and a revenge attack against thugs who cut a woman's womanhood in order to rape her is just plain sick!!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/7/2007 Posts: 11,935 Location: Nairobi
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Kanobi, Okay.We can ask the chap to stab the old men then...??(Kidding).Anyway.My feeling is that a tribunal won't work for the obvious reasons that our politicians like trivilising issues.Read todays Standard?......Eti RV MPs are going to meet MK since they don't trust RAO anymore.....Stop laughing now......They claim it's RAO who called them to action (Mass protest means kill and rape your neighbours??..Jinga hawa).Let MK and RAO keep mum over the entire thing and wait for Annan to hand over the envelop to Ocampo.Simple. Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm.
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Rank: User Joined: 6/27/2008 Posts: 709 Location: Velayat-e Faryab
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@ Cindano During the height of genocide in Rwanda,a group of American (USA) citizens were to travel out of Rwanda after hiding for a few weeks.. Before they could leave,a group led by Kabuga attacked them and killed all. USA has been after Kabuga's neck offering 500 million kenya shillings (excuse if this is not the exact figure) for whoever reveals where the guy is. Otherwise,America goes after people who have killed American citizens,are a threat to them or those who are preventing America achieve its objective of being the economic superpower,. Period. That is how selfish Americans are. Otherwise,we have our Kabuga here,actually two Kabugas (Ruto and Bett) but America will never demand for their arrests as it does not serve American interests. Remember America funded ODM cauze Kibaki had turned arround the economy and also turned to Asia and Libya for better economic relationship. Hope no one will accuse me of being biased,but let the truth be told. Let the guilty face the hang man. Next port of call should be The Hague,I don't think our government will be able to take the heat generated by a Ruto/Bett conviction. Go overdrive in purchasing the goods when there's blood on the streets, expecially if the blood is your own
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 5/18/2008 Posts: 796
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“On the 1st of January 2008 at around 10 a.m.,I heard people yelling that some raiders were coming. I saw smoke coming from some houses in our village and the houses were burning. Everyone in the village started running away to the church (KAG). My mother who was 90 years old was with me at the time. I decided to take my mother into the church for safety. After a few minutes,I saw more raiders coming towards the church….We thought the raiders would not attack the church. Many people were being pushed into the churchby the raiders. The raiders threw some mattress into the roof of the church and threw more into the church. They were also pouring fuel (petrol) onto the mattresses. All of a sudden I saw fire break out. I took my mother toward to [the] main door to get her outside,but there were many others scrambling toward the door as well. We both fell onto the floor. I wanted to save my mother from the burning church,but one of the raiders prevented me. I saw the fire had reached where my mother was. I heard her cry for help as the fire burnt her,but I could not help.”
“they started throwing stones,arrows and forcing children,women,and old ones in the church. They took all mattresses pouring petrol on and laying some at the roof…,against the wall and at the doors and set ablaze so all men trying to come outside was killed. Others escaped [and] survived with major cuts and inside were so many dead and others burned beyond recognition and some escaped severely burned….I saw many that I know them for many years but the constitution of this country was made for Kalenjin because they are able to kill,burn houses and also to loot livestock and there is no law to prosecute them”.
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Rank: Member Joined: 10/6/2007 Posts: 60
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surealligator*,
well said... but....
up to a point..... where you start naming names.....
remember...
they were not the ones who were hacking people with pangas...as we watched in CNN..
and why the loop sided vilification....
we also have other leaders from other communities......
who were planning equal savagery and barbarrism....
and also remember that this will domino....
ten suspects..... nice amnesty offer...... more suspects...... nicer amnesty package....
THE MAN.....or WOMAN....
Nothing personal.... Kila kitu kiasi...hata ujinga...
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