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Uganda's Air Superiority
quicksand
#21 Posted : Monday, May 09, 2011 12:49:41 PM
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Joined: 7/5/2010
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Location: Nairobi
@Intelligentsia.
6 Sukhois cannot possibly cost 1.2 billion US dollars. I read somewhere (sorry, have no link) that an advanced fighter aircraft goes from 30 to 50 mill USD. Except the F22 Raptor, which the US is not even ready to sell yet
Intelligentsia
#22 Posted : Monday, May 09, 2011 1:32:45 PM
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Joined: 10/1/2009
Posts: 2,436
quicksand wrote:
@Intelligentsia.
6 Sukhois cannot possibly cost 1.2 billion US dollars.

1 Su-30MK2 costs circa USD 54m X 6 = USD 324M
although they took USD 740M from Bank of Uganda; the bal. was 99.999% most likely siphoned to finance M7's recent re-election campaign. They done that mob times before anyway, that's why until now Ug. has had a Mickey Mouse airforce

I read somewhere (sorry, have no link) that an advanced fighter aircraft goes from 30 to 50 mill USD.

The Su-30MK2 is an advanced fighter and costs about USD 54M so that's in line with your upper limit of USD 50M. But the same amount fetches a 3rd gen plane if you buy from the West.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-30MKK)

Except the F22 Raptor, which the US is not even ready to sell yet

Weaponry from the West is generally expensive that that from the East. In fact kila kitu from West is expe! Si that's why we are buying Chinese products in many areas, sio? Forget about the U.S. selling the Raptor to any other country for now, also note Raptor is a 5th generational fighter; Kenya's F-5Es are 2nd gen. fighters; while the Su-30MK2 are 4th gen fighters


poundfoolish
#23 Posted : Monday, May 09, 2011 2:37:41 PM
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Joined: 12/2/2009
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Location: Nairobi
did i read Jenga 'wananichi' Kaa-ndume...

oops my bad.. it's Njenga wananichi Karume
simonkabz
#24 Posted : Monday, May 09, 2011 2:53:14 PM
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@intel, wewe noma. I think the US$ 740m price tag includes Su30 platforms, aircraft combat weaponry, pilot/tech training, spares, other ground weapons, and of course not forgeting a fat kickback....
TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
Intelligentsia
#25 Posted : Monday, May 09, 2011 3:16:19 PM
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Joined: 10/1/2009
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@skabz you are right it includes all those; initially the birds will have to be piloted by experienced Ukranian crews as no Ugandans have currently have any xperience with this bird for now.
Burning Spear
#26 Posted : Monday, May 09, 2011 5:31:19 PM
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Joined: 7/22/2008
Posts: 1,139
[quote=Intelligentsia]@Rahatupu,
they are modernising.Quietly.
@Simonkabz, I believe some of the Sukhoi's have already been delivered; M7 arm-twisted the Ug. Parliment into rubber-stamping the very inflated purchases of these 4th generation fighters.
It will be violating Kenyan airspace but I don't put it beyond M7 to send the fighters travelling at Mach 2-plus streaking across Kenyan terriory to run sorties against Al-Shabaab in support of since Ug troops in AMISOM in Somalia who can now be able to call in air cover...
BTW, a Sukhoi such as this costs about USD 54m (say KShs 4.5b at KShs/USD 83)enough to pay for our Free Prim. Edu budget for a year...ha!

According to the latest data from the Stockholm Institute of International Peace Research Institute annual database, and its Military Balance report, Kenya has the smallest army in the region:

Eritrea - has 201,750 troops
DR Congo -151,251
Ethiopia - 38,000
Sudan - 190,300
Uganda -45,000
Rwanda - 33,000
Tanzania - 27,000
KENYA - 24,000
Burundi at 17,000 (figures from Burundi, though, indicate its army is 29,000 strong).

Despite that, Kenya trumps all these countries in defence spending, at $735 million annually and rising. This is equivalent to 2.1 per cent of Kenya’s $35 billion GDP. Analysts say most of this money has gone to upgrading military capability — which was becoming obsolete — and force readiness ....

E.A's Quiet Arms Race.

http://www.theeastafrica.../-/o3915fz/-/index.html[/quote]


the in formation about the number of troops is incorrect.Though kenya has fewer troops than its neighbours,it does not have 27,000,this is a conservative figure rather than real.

Also,it does not pay to have a bloated resource who hardly get some decnt pay by month end eg Uganda UPDF private gets a average of Ksh 5,000 compared to kenya Armay Private at Ksh 35,000.

You can have the numbers but quality be an issue.
"You're not supposed to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who says it". Malcolm X
simonkabz
#27 Posted : Monday, May 09, 2011 6:40:36 PM
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@bs consider that UPDF has over 8000 soldiers in the AMISOM. Fair pay, great experience (battle hardening in the most dangerous country in the world)...In 3yrs time, nearly the entire UPDF will have served in that hellhole....thats sth to ponder, right?
TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
Djinn
#28 Posted : Tuesday, May 10, 2011 10:37:48 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/13/2008
Posts: 1,565
Interesting discussion - when I saw the list by @intelligentsia showing the number of troops in Eastern African nations, I recalled a Sudanese Comprehensive Peace Agreement (CPA) map I saw. And for those that have mentioned Egypt, River Nile, Russia, China, Oil, Water, etc - you are on point.

The Southern Sudan deal was VERY difficult to broker owing to interests of more than a dozen countries - some of them outside Africa.

See the PDF here - http://publicintelligenc...ve-peace-agreement-map/

(click download PDF - Not the first graphic - that is more of a preview).

I hope you have a 17" or 19" screen for its rather broad - but its mind boggling knowing which interests orbit around Southern Sudan and also the history of the people around the region....
Rahatupu
#29 Posted : Tuesday, May 10, 2011 2:40:03 PM
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Location: matano manne
@Spear, quality does not come from sitting in the barracks through entire career punctuated by a few peacekeeping operations. It comes from the battle front period.
413XX!$
#30 Posted : Tuesday, May 10, 2011 6:06:05 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 10/16/2010
Posts: 22
Location: Kenya
Any African army would not be a thread to even the fire brigade of an Austrian mountain village.
As long as African people suffer from poverty, diseases and lack of affordable education, spending funds on technically slimmed down fighter planes is in my opinion just obscene.
Carpe Aptenodytes!
livie
#31 Posted : Tuesday, May 10, 2011 6:35:13 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/1/2008
Posts: 834
Jaina wrote:


However this doesnt mean we dont need to mordernise. We should, but the Vice of corruption is deep rooted in the DOD procurement.


The cost of maintaing and keeping these 4th generation craft in the air for just one hour is staggering!!! no one want to go to war spending all that money without a sound economy in place. Ask the Americans the cost of war.

For deterrent purposes, their acquisition might be justified. But with corruption from recruitment to promotions rife in the military, it might even be a challenge to even get a truly genuine, A- student, very intelligent Kenyan to fly them! and what with supporting infrastructure?military satellites, air refuelling planes,communication toys....

I suggest we work on the economy, keep corruption out of military as a matter of urgency, the rest usually fall in place...
If you are going to be thinking only one thing, you might as well be thinking big. -Donald J . Trump
Burning Spear
#32 Posted : Tuesday, May 10, 2011 6:56:22 PM
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Joined: 7/22/2008
Posts: 1,139
413XX!$ wrote:
Any African army would not be a thread to even the fire brigade of an Austrian mountain village.
As long as African people suffer from poverty, diseases and lack of affordable education, spending funds on technically slimmed down fighter planes is in my opinion just obscene.



Chief ! thats correct !

its not the size of the army that win/matters but the tactics they employ.

Compare Israel and any other african or asian country you may think of !
However,i do agree we need sophisticated equipment but this should not compromise delivery of healthcare,education and poverty eradication programme.Whats the use of having all those equipments when the population are daily daily from poverty !!

Where are the wazuans policy analysts ???
"You're not supposed to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who says it". Malcolm X
Obi 1 Kanobi
#33 Posted : Wednesday, May 11, 2011 6:49:21 PM
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Joined: 7/23/2008
Posts: 3,017
Wow!!

I am very surprised that most here support M7's stupidity in buying some useless aircrafts that he will never use. He could improve the morale of his army through better pay to personnel.

Facts,
- Uganda may own the fancy jets but chances are due to poor pay to their personnel, poor training etc, if it were to come to a time to use them, the gadgets will probably malfunction as a result of poor maintenance and lack of technical knowhow.
- Ug may be able to bomb her enemies once or twice before running out of the bombs ( I read somewhere that a tomahawk is Usd 8m) so one wonders how much a variant for this russian jet will cost and just how many Ug will buy and keep in stock. Therefore the cost of fighting a war with such gadgets will be too prohibitive and not sustainable for more than 3 sorties.
- I am yet to here of a war that was won by air superiority only, even the US had to put boots on the ground in Iraq to subdue them after billions of $ spent on bombing campaigns. The russians chased a ragtag army in the Afghan mountains for years using airpower and eventually gave up and returned home.
- The only deterent you need to neutralise the UG jets are SAMs moved in a mobile SAM launchers that you can procure from Russia for a fraction of the price and will not need running costs, place a few around the likely targets and the jets will suddenly have no viable targets
- And finally outside the US and her western allies and Russia no other country in the world has been involved in a war where it needed to deploy such sophisticated weaponry.

Museveni is purchasing this jets to use in independence parades and nothing else, if he doesn't know it yet, he will learn very painfully at the waste he will have gotten himself in.

I actually like the way we spend on our military, we should simply maintain a small highly motivated and mobile army that can be easily deployed if necessary.

Heavy weaponry (e.g a main battle tank) is expensive will probably never engage a viable target in this parts of the world and breaks down easily while the light armour is cheaper to use and maintain and can be deployed rapidly.

I would suggest we vary our military expenditure to recruit and train about 5,000 new recruits every year on a 5 year cycle in which time they should be a modest pay but also be trained in some skill, such that they form a reserve force equivalent to the standing army. The young men will after 5 years leave the army highly disciplined and with a skill and they can be arbsorbed into the police, fire dept, the KWS or move into the private sector where such disciplined skilled individuals will be in high demand. At the same time, they will retain their reserve status for say another 10 years.

I would also like to see acquisition of more mordern light armour including some mid sized helicopters, transport planes that are simple to maintain. and light tanks and personnel carriers.

Having said this, our military budget as a proportion to the entire budget should always be below, education, health care, agriculture, development expenditure, police and security matters and all those costs that are critical to the well being of the common mwananchi.
"The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
simonkabz
#34 Posted : Tuesday, August 09, 2011 12:38:38 PM
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Joined: 3/2/2007
Posts: 8,776
Location: Cameroon
Two Sukhoi Su30 MK2 delivered in july 8th, in full UPDF markings n camouflage. Bought using close to a third of Ug's foreign exchange reserves, the deal received heavy criticism, for exacerbating inflation, n seen as a wasteful n egotistic expenditure. The thunderous roar of the jets overhead Entebbe that stattled everybody, only rubbed salt to the injury.
TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
tycho
#35 Posted : Tuesday, August 09, 2011 3:12:20 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
M-7 has expansionist ideas. Because he is a mzee he believes akina Raila, Uhuru, Kikwete . . . are sosa. And considering his old school revolutionary ideas . . .
simonkabz
#36 Posted : Wednesday, August 31, 2011 11:41:20 PM
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Joined: 3/2/2007
Posts: 8,776
Location: Cameroon
Njung'e
#37 Posted : Thursday, September 01, 2011 1:54:00 AM
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Joined: 2/7/2007
Posts: 11,935
Location: Nairobi
@Thimioni,
Haven't followed this thread as such but hopefully,it's not that those Vikois (Plural for Sukhoi)can beat our Northrops...If you confirm this,i am off to a refugee camp...sorry folks.I have to go...lol

http

Ama yetu ni Northrop probox?smile
Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm.
mkonomtupu
#38 Posted : Thursday, September 01, 2011 10:49:49 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 2/10/2010
Posts: 1,001
Location: River Road
Just looking at this article http://www.newvision.co.ug/PA/8/13/761171. This plane is one of the most heavily armed war plane. It has a weapons payload of 45 air-to-air missiles, 32 air-to-ground missiles, 77 dropped bombs and 120 rockets. with 8 of these planes he can wipe our airforce and have unlimited air superiority and like Gaddafi has learnt you can't win a war in the 21st century without air superiority. He can have migingo
simonkabz
#39 Posted : Thursday, September 01, 2011 11:08:59 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/2/2007
Posts: 8,776
Location: Cameroon
Trying to post an image.....nimechapa kama socks ya michuki.

TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
simonkabz
#40 Posted : Thursday, September 01, 2011 11:22:40 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/2/2007
Posts: 8,776
Location: Cameroon
Eheheheheheheheheheheheeeeeeee mimi noma!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Tried that for one hour Ghai!
TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
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