wazua Sun, Nov 17, 2024
Welcome Guest Search | Active Topics | Log In | Register

3 Pages<123>
This caught my attention
bwenyenye
#21 Posted : Wednesday, August 17, 2011 12:59:06 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 5/24/2007
Posts: 1,805
Guys, I could guide you on how the property market will trend in the next 30 years.

Once the infrastructure is complete, people will start going to live in the city outskirts e.g Syokks, Kitengela, ngong, Kiambu etc coz land is much cheaper there. Huge estates will come up like Tatu City, Fourways, Edenvile etc. The middleclass will move to these areas enmasse for the lifestyle living. They will sell the Kilimamni, Kileleshwa, South B,C, Langata, houses and rush to the outskirts. The rich will then buy these areas and create very expensive lifestyles that are exclusive to them. They live next to to their offices and work there. The middleclass will realise the game all to late that the city has been repartitioned and they now have to incur huge transport costs to get to work. The next cylce is the middleclass trying to get close to the city again. This has happened in almost every city that has developed. There is nothig new under the sun.
I Think Therefore I Am
jamplu
#22 Posted : Wednesday, August 17, 2011 2:11:12 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 3/25/2010
Posts: 939
Location: Nai
bwenyenye wrote:
Guys, I could guide you on how the property market will trend in the next 30 years.

Once the infrastructure is complete, people will start going to live in the city outskirts e.g Syokks, Kitengela, ngong, Kiambu etc coz land is much cheaper there. Huge estates will come up like Tatu City, Fourways, Edenvile etc. The middleclass will move to these areas enmasse for the lifestyle living. They will sell the Kilimamni, Kileleshwa, South B,C, Langata, houses and rush to the outskirts. The rich will then buy these areas and create very expensive lifestyles that are exclusive to them. They live next to to their offices and work there. The middleclass will realise the game all to late that the city has been repartitioned and they now have to incur huge transport costs to get to work. The next cylce is the middleclass trying to get close to the city again. This has happened in almost every city that has developed. There is nothig new under the sun.



I think we past the cycle of rushing to the outskirts because all what you calling outskirts is almost bought out and expensive how many of those in the "middle class" can afford space within TATU -if it will ever see the light of day- so probably those waiting to sell their tu-apartments will sell and move to shagz!
Mblue
#23 Posted : Thursday, August 18, 2011 2:24:38 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/3/2011
Posts: 197
bwenyenye wrote:
Guys, I could guide you on how the property market will trend in the next 30 years.

Once the infrastructure is complete, people will start going to live in the city outskirts e.g Syokks, Kitengela, ngong, Kiambu etc coz land is much cheaper there. Huge estates will come up like Tatu City, Fourways, Edenvile etc. The middleclass will move to these areas enmasse for the lifestyle living. They will sell the Kilimamni, Kileleshwa, South B,C, Langata, houses and rush to the outskirts. The rich will then buy these areas and create very expensive lifestyles that are exclusive to them. They live next to to their offices and work there. The middleclass will realise the game all to late that the city has been repartitioned and they now have to incur huge transport costs to get to work. The next cylce is the middleclass trying to get close to the city again. This has happened in almost every city that has developed. There is nothig new under the sun.


Maybe by then there will be electric trains and transport costs will be lower.
"..one is only poor only if they choose to be.."-Dolly Partron
StatMeister
#24 Posted : Thursday, August 18, 2011 3:10:37 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 5/23/2010
Posts: 868
Location: La Islas Galápagos
Mblue wrote:
bwenyenye wrote:
they now have to incur huge transport costs to get to work.


Maybe by then there will be electric trains and transport costs will be lower.



There will be 'lectric trains in Kenya, but there won't be no 'lectricity to run 'em
A bad day fishing is better than a good day at work
earthvoice
#25 Posted : Thursday, August 18, 2011 3:38:33 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/29/2011
Posts: 257
StatMeister wrote:

There will be 'lectric trains in Kenya, but there won't be no 'lectricity to run 'em

Applause Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Applause
"All intelligent investing is value investing -- acquiring more than you are paying for. You must value the business in order to value the stock." - Charlie Munger.
Cde Monomotapa
#26 Posted : Thursday, August 18, 2011 3:41:25 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/13/2011
Posts: 5,964
Gordon Gekko wrote:
@Mblue, problem is not the construction cost but the cost of the land!!

simonkabz
#27 Posted : Thursday, August 18, 2011 6:48:02 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/2/2007
Posts: 8,776
Location: Cameroon
Thika my beautiful hometown. Daima milele. The home of the LEGEND.
TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
Drunkard
#28 Posted : Thursday, August 18, 2011 7:31:56 PM
Rank: User


Joined: 5/3/2011
Posts: 559
bwenyenye wrote:
StatMeister wrote:
If you wanted to live in (say) a Kile apartment, you can buy it for 10m (take a 15-year mortgage @ 11% paying 113k) or you can just rent it for half the cost.

We all know how these apartments will look like in another 15 years.


Have you factored how much they will cost in 15 years despite their looks?
Do you know how much you will have paid in rent for 15 years? half the mortgage... so who is fooling who?



Actually, in 15 yrs you won't have paid half of the 30 yrs mortgage, as a matter of facts you'll have paid just about a third of your mortgage and with such inflated prices, plus high current interest rates compare to anticipated rates 10 yrs from now, The value of your house 15 yrs from now( including all mortgage payment you've made) might not be able to pay off the remaining 15 yrs on your 30yrs mortgage!

So someone is right when he/she suggest that a renter is smart in this case!
For Sport
#29 Posted : Thursday, August 18, 2011 10:46:51 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 12/23/2010
Posts: 1,229
Drunkard wrote:
bwenyenye wrote:
StatMeister wrote:
If you wanted to live in (say) a Kile apartment, you can buy it for 10m (take a 15-year mortgage @ 11% paying 113k) or you can just rent it for half the cost.

We all know how these apartments will look like in another 15 years.


Have you factored how much they will cost in 15 years despite their looks?
Do you know how much you will have paid in rent for 15 years? half the mortgage... so who is fooling who?



Actually, in 15 yrs you won't have paid half of the 30 yrs mortgage, as a matter of facts you'll have paid just about a third of your mortgage and with such inflated prices, plus high current interest rates compare to anticipated rates 10 yrs from now, The value of your house 15 yrs from now( including all mortgage payment you've made) might not be able to pay off the remaining 15 yrs on your 30yrs mortgage!

So someone is right when he/she suggest that a renter is smart in this case!


Example given was for a 15 year mortgage.
Renter smarter than the homeowner? Renters pay rent to someone - forever. The buyer's mortgage payments end in 15 years. Rent will not remain stagnant for 15 years. And so on. Tired debate.
Drunkard
#30 Posted : Friday, August 19, 2011 12:22:56 AM
Rank: User


Joined: 5/3/2011
Posts: 559
@ For sport,
...Right I was reading 30 yrs mortgage, but still the assumption that buying a house is always a winning bet is something that people sometimes irrationally hold onto, note that when you sign for a mortgage to buy a house, the bank is the investor and you are the borrow and you're only betting on capital appreciation.

First calculate the future value of 12% interest payment on your mortgage, 15 yrs from now, add all the expenses associated with owning a house together with the final investment you'll make 15yrs from now to get the house ready for sell, The interest alone will shock you!that is how much your house need to appreciate in order to break-even, just to break-even.

After that, look at the real estate industry and figure out the parity between Mortgage payments & rent payment and target market wages growth rates & propery prices, these parities will guide the decision to go long or short, short in this case is "not to buy."

My analysis tells me that renter is the smart one based on the current propery market situation and the opportunity cost associated with the disparity between mortgage payments and rent payment! In short, invest the difference between your rent payment and mortgage payment for 15 yrs and see how much it will turn out to be!
Genghis Khan
#31 Posted : Friday, August 19, 2011 10:46:05 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/5/2010
Posts: 335
Location: Nairobi
It is flawed to compare rent with mortgage installments which are part principal, part interest.

The interest is an expense comparable to rent, the principle is a locked in investment comparable to a savings account balance or money in your CDS. You can get this investment back in cash by refinancing or sale of the property... interest and rent are gone forever...

The difference (btwn mortgage & CDS) is the underlying asset which in this case is real estate not stock. You should get capital gain and income (rent payable from u to u).

Things to consider
1. Price vs. value of property now and in future (u make money when u buy as in stocks)
2. Cost of debt vs. investment returns
3. Other investment alternatives {better yields / lower risk / shorter payback etc.}

Consider the random numbers below which I have not put much thought into.

2011
rent 50k
mortgage 110k
bread 40
fuel 120

2013
rent 65k
mortgage 110k
bread 65
fuel 170

2018
rent 90k
mortgage 110k
bread 120??
fuel 300??

2025
rent 150k
mortgage 110k
bread 200??
fuel XXXX??
"I'd rather be lucky than clever... every time!" - ME
"The problem is not what we don't know... it's what we know for sure that just ain't!" - MARK TWAIN
"Space we can recover... time never!" - NAPOLEON BONAPARTE
StatMeister
#32 Posted : Friday, August 19, 2011 11:07:05 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 5/23/2010
Posts: 868
Location: La Islas Galápagos
Genghis Khan wrote:
It is flawed to compare rent with mortgage installments which are part principal, part interest.

The interest is an expense comparable to rent, the principle is a locked in investment comparable to a savings account balance or money in your CDS. You can get this investment back in cash by refinancing or sale of the property... interest and rent are gone forever...

The difference is the underlying asset which in this case is real estate not stock. You should get capital gain and income (rent payable from u to u).

Things to consider
1. Price vs. value of property now and in future (u make money when u buy as in stocks)
2. Cost of debt vs. investment returns
3. Other investment alternatives {better yields / lower risk / shorter payback etc.}

Consider the random numbers below which I have not put much thought into.

2011
rent 50k
mortgage 110k
bread 40
fuel 120

2013
rent 65k
mortgage 110k
bread 65
fuel 170

2018
rent 90k
mortgage 110k
bread 120??
fuel 300??

2025
rent 150k
mortgage 110k
bread 200??
fuel XXXX??


Quick question, would you buy the house now and rent out at half price, or you'd wait until rents were more reasonable (e.g. 2018 in the example)?
A bad day fishing is better than a good day at work
Mainat
#33 Posted : Friday, August 19, 2011 11:08:43 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/21/2006
Posts: 1,590
Its a mistake to compare mortgage payments with rent because rent can only go one way while mortgage payments can rise and fall.
Sehemu ndio nyumba
StatMeister
#34 Posted : Friday, August 19, 2011 11:10:40 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 5/23/2010
Posts: 868
Location: La Islas Galápagos
City Hall opens Nairobi’s leafy suburbs for high-rise buildings

http://www.businessdaily...539546/1221476/-/11qr/-/
A bad day fishing is better than a good day at work
Genghis Khan
#35 Posted : Friday, August 19, 2011 11:18:49 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/5/2010
Posts: 335
Location: Nairobi
Drunkard wrote:

My analysis tells me that renter is the smart one based on the current propery market situation and the opportunity cost associated with the disparity between mortgage payments and rent payment! In short, invest the difference between your rent payment and mortgage payment for 15 yrs and see how much it will turn out to be!

What "current propery market situation"? Do not over-analyse.

Lemme give u an example, I got a mortgage for 6.25m for a 3bed flat.

I have paid up less than 300k and with 18+ yrs to go.

Now market price is at around 10m if I can sell with patience... force sell at least 8.5m... this is after 17 months... (2.25/6.25)*(12/17) = 25% return or 42% if you work with 10m.

Rent was around 35k, now its 45k... which is a 6% dividend...

My plan is to eventually buy land and construct when i have a family. By then i will have the OPTION to sell it and pay off the mortgage and pocket the change (5m plus i hope) OR rent out the flat and let someone else pay the remaining 15yrs of my mortgage ... by then rent will be higher than installments. Trust me i will make a good decision... based of course on the then "current propery market situation".
"I'd rather be lucky than clever... every time!" - ME
"The problem is not what we don't know... it's what we know for sure that just ain't!" - MARK TWAIN
"Space we can recover... time never!" - NAPOLEON BONAPARTE
eco
#36 Posted : Friday, August 19, 2011 11:33:07 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 6/17/2011
Posts: 229
Drunkard wrote:
.......My analysis tells me that renter is the smart one based on the current propery market situation and the opportunity cost associated with the disparity between mortgage payments and rent payment! In short, invest the difference between your rent payment and mortgage payment for 15 yrs and see how much it will turn out to be!


@Drunkard, you cannot compare rent payments with mortgage. It is not all about maths, it is also about security.

Compare this scenario. A Tenant becomes incapacitated, or worse dies - family cannot anymore pay rent, and has to leave owners premises to I do not know where. Same happens to a person servicing mortgage, and the insurance pays the mortage difference. Family of the later is secure under their roof.

If one books a house off-plan (normally 10%), and as the developer constructs tries as much as possible to raise about 40-50%, mortagage of the remaining 50 -60% will be cleared in less time and lower interest.

In mortgage, one can also do top - up payments, hence speeding up the payments.

Supposing also that you have just started paying mortgage and the property you booked at 7.5m can now sell at 10-12m. I will not even blink, sell, pay up the loan, and pocket the difference, with which I am better off in another similar arrangement.
Genghis Khan
#37 Posted : Friday, August 19, 2011 11:36:21 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/5/2010
Posts: 335
Location: Nairobi
StatMeister wrote:
Quick question, would you buy the house now and rent out at half price, or you'd wait until rents were more reasonable (e.g. 2018 in the example)?

I might not buy a single unit with the intent to rent long term. If i got a good deal (low price) and i had the money (which i dont) i might buy, rent and sell maybe in a year or 2 if i could get another good deal (high price).

If i had enough money i would rather buy a plot maybe embakasi and build flats. 2bdr, 1bdr, bedsitters...

About waiting for rent 2 rise, my assumption is that rent will rise more or less in line with property prices (or vice versa, I'm not sure which of the 2 is the chicken / egg ie. which determines the other).

So... if u wait for reasonable rents... u are also waiting for higher prices.smile

"I'd rather be lucky than clever... every time!" - ME
"The problem is not what we don't know... it's what we know for sure that just ain't!" - MARK TWAIN
"Space we can recover... time never!" - NAPOLEON BONAPARTE
Jamani
#38 Posted : Friday, August 19, 2011 11:37:10 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/12/2006
Posts: 1,554
Genghis Khan wrote:
Drunkard wrote:

My analysis tells me that renter is the smart one based on the current propery market situation and the opportunity cost associated with the disparity between mortgage payments and rent payment! In short, invest the difference between your rent payment and mortgage payment for 15 yrs and see how much it will turn out to be!

What "current propery market situation"? Do not over-analyse.

Lemme give u an example, I got a mortgage for 6.25m for a 3bed flat.

I have paid up less than 300k and with 18+ yrs to go.

Now market price is at around 10m if I can sell with patience... force sell at least 8.5m... this is after 17 months... (2.25/6.25)*(12/17) = 25% return or 42% if you work with 10m.

Rent was around 35k, now its 45k... which is a 6% dividend...

My plan is to eventually buy land and construct when i have a family. By then i will have the OPTION to sell it and pay off the mortgage and pocket the change (5m plus i hope) OR rent out the flat and let someone else pay the remaining 15yrs of my mortgage ... by then rent will be higher than installments. Trust me i will make a good decision... based of course on the then "current propery market situation".


[quote=StatMeister]City Hall opens Nairobi’s leafy suburbs for high-rise buildings

http://www.businessdaily...39546/1221476/-/11qr/-/[/quote]
@GK this might affect your future sell
Genghis Khan
#39 Posted : Friday, August 19, 2011 11:40:29 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/5/2010
Posts: 335
Location: Nairobi
eco wrote:
Compare this scenario. A Tenant becomes incapacitated, or worse dies - family cannot anymore pay rent, and has to leave owners premises to I do not know where. Same happens to a person servicing mortgage, and the insurance pays the mortage difference. Family of the later is secure under their roof.

I like!
"I'd rather be lucky than clever... every time!" - ME
"The problem is not what we don't know... it's what we know for sure that just ain't!" - MARK TWAIN
"Space we can recover... time never!" - NAPOLEON BONAPARTE
StatMeister
#40 Posted : Friday, August 19, 2011 12:51:03 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 5/23/2010
Posts: 868
Location: La Islas Galápagos
Genghis Khan wrote:
eco wrote:
Compare this scenario. A Tenant becomes incapacitated, or worse dies - family cannot anymore pay rent, and has to leave owners premises to I do not know where. Same happens to a person servicing mortgage, and the insurance pays the mortage difference. Family of the later is secure under their roof.

I like!


Home loans have embeded life / disability covers. Anyone can still take these covers without a mortgage
A bad day fishing is better than a good day at work
Users browsing this topic
Guest (6)
3 Pages<123>
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Copyright © 2024 Wazua.co.ke. All Rights Reserved.