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2012 or 2013!! What says the Constitution!!
mukiha
#21 Posted : Monday, August 01, 2011 4:14:28 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
Mpenzi wrote:
mukiha wrote:
...furthermore, people are completely ignoring Article 102 of the new constitution which reads:

102. (1) The term of each House of Parliament expires on the date of the next
general election.

So, we shall just call elections on 14 August next year and on that date, the "unexpired term" of the current parliament will come to an automatic end!



But we still have the Article 89(2) problem:

"The Independent Electoral and Boundaries Commission shall review the names and boundaries of constituencies at intervals
of not less than eight years, and not more than twelve years, but any review shall be completed at least twelve months before a general election of members of Parliament."

It is unlikely that this review, by a body that is yet to be set up, will be completed by 14th August 2011.


No. This does not apply. Read Article 262 - the SIXTH SCHEDULE, para 27(3)

"(3) The requirement in Article 89(2) that a review of constituency and ward boundaries shall be completed at least twelve months before a general
election does not apply to the review of boundaries preceding the first elections under this Constitution."
Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
'user'
#22 Posted : Monday, August 01, 2011 4:20:39 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 12/3/2010
Posts: 1,141
Location: Londokwe
Good and thank you bwana Mukiha.

But let the Mpigs continue to self destruct their political careers .The longer they stay in this August house , the more they make Kenyans angrier , the dimmer the chances of returning there.
Sawa tu hata wakisema in March 2013 but tutawanyorosha kwa ballot vizuri sana
2012 is here.Kenya is Ours.Be Part of The Peace Keeping Mission To Protect Our Motherland.Say No To Violence and Tribal Hatred .If you can read this,wewe ni mtu amesoma, usifikirie kama mtu hajaenda shule .Ni Hayo Tu
B.Timer
#23 Posted : Monday, August 01, 2011 10:11:38 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 5/31/2008
Posts: 1,076
mukiha wrote:
The 10th paragraph of the SIXTH SCHEDULE in CHAPTER EIGHTEEN reads:

"10. The National Assembly existing immediately before the effective date shall continue as the National Assembly for the purposes of this Constitution for its unexpired term."

I have highlighted the phrase "for its unexpired term" because this where the contentions lies.

My understanding is that to find out what the unexpired term is, we have to go to the old constitution to find out how the term of parliament is defined.

This is found in section 59 of the OLD constitution and it reads:
59
(1) The President may at any time prorogue Parliament.

(2) The President may at any time dissolve Parliament.

(3) If the National Assembly passes a resolution which is supported by the votes of a majority of all the members of the Assembly (excluding the ex-officio members), and of which not less than seven days’ notice has been given in accordance with the standing orders of the Assembly, declaring that it has no confidence in the Government of Kenya, and the President does not within three days of the passing of that resolution either resign from his office or dissolve Parliament, Parliament shall stand dissolved on the fourth day following the day on which that resolution was passed.

(4) Parliament, unless sooner dissolved, shall continue for five years from the date when the National Assembly first meets after dissolution and shall then stand dissolved
.

(5) At any time when Kenya is at war, Parliament may from time to time provide for the extension of the period of five years specified in subsection (4) for not more than twelve months at a time: Provided that the life of Parliament shall not be extended under this subsection by more than five years.

Clearly, there WERE three ways in which the term could expire:

1] By presidential dissolution

2] By parliamentary resolution to dissolve

3] After expiry of 5 years

I do not understand why everybody is only thinking about the last one and ignoring the other two... which BTW, appear earlier in the list.

So, this is what will happen: come June next year, the President will have authority to dissolve the House, despite what the new constitution says about the term of parliament being independent. in my view, this independence is only applicable to a parliamnet elected under this constitution.

However, in order to give such a move legal backing, it would be wise to seek a constitutional interpretation through the Supreme Court.

therefore, I do not see any problem.



I must agree, yours are good arguments.

I must nonetheless take an alternative view as hereunder;

Unexpired term as used can only mean uninterupted term.

The other options given for (1&2 as above) are sanctioned interuptions.

There surely exists a difference between a premature dissolution of Parliament and running its full term to epiry.

Again I am not sure the President still holds the powers to prorogue or dissolve parliament!!!


Arguments of - if this parliament/president/cabinet were not elected/in office in accordance with the new constitution continue to be challenged.
A case in point is Uhurus budget - minister/Cabinet secretary!
Even the nomination of CJ,DCJ&DPP was handled not as per the dictates of the transitional clauses.
It is just murky!

We will have to invite the judiciary to interpret these matters. Of course there after thier view becomes the official view - binding.
Dunia ni msongamano..
Mpenzi
#24 Posted : Sunday, August 07, 2011 1:29:21 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 10/17/2008
Posts: 1,234
There is a very good article in the Sunday Nation today, at page 29, on this issue by Mungai Kihanya. He argues very cogently that there is no constitutional basis for holding elections in 2013. I cannot find the article on Nation online so I offer no link.

I think mukiha has busted himself as the arguments by Mungai Kihanya are so close to Mukiha's very good arguments above.

Also note that "mukiha" appears to be the first two letters of "Mu"ngai and and the first four of "Kiha"nya combined!!
Lolest!
#25 Posted : Sunday, August 07, 2011 2:06:26 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
@mpenzi, a number of wazuans already know this fact! Pls Delete the post and allow the guy to maintain his anonymity.
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
'user'
#26 Posted : Sunday, August 07, 2011 2:13:12 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 12/3/2010
Posts: 1,141
Location: Londokwe
lol; no worries wazuan will continue to respect mukiha cos he has respected himself

2012 is here.Kenya is Ours.Be Part of The Peace Keeping Mission To Protect Our Motherland.Say No To Violence and Tribal Hatred .If you can read this,wewe ni mtu amesoma, usifikirie kama mtu hajaenda shule .Ni Hayo Tu
Mpenzi
#27 Posted : Sunday, August 07, 2011 2:30:39 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 10/17/2008
Posts: 1,234
Lolest! wrote:
@mpenzi, a number of wazuans already know this fact! Pls Delete the post and allow the guy to maintain his anonymity.


No need to delete post. He is no longer anonymous and clearly he doesn't seem to mind seeing how easily I connected the dots regarding his posts, his article in the Nation and his username.
Impunity
#28 Posted : Sunday, August 07, 2011 3:13:49 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/2/2009
Posts: 26,330
Location: Masada
Muhahahahahaaaaaaaaa....kumbe ndio huyu?
Mukiha = sio Mukisa Kituyi tena.

Muhahahahaaaakihihihihahahahaaaaaa....
Mbusted!
The only thing he can do now,if he must,is to deny kabisa styro ya Alfred Mutua.
Portfolio: Sold
You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.

Mpenzi
#29 Posted : Monday, August 08, 2011 11:38:37 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 10/17/2008
Posts: 1,234
Mpenzi wrote:
There is a very good article in the Sunday Nation today, at page 29, on this issue by Mungai Kihanya. He argues very cogently that there is no constitutional basis for holding elections in 2013. I cannot find the article on Nation online so I offer no link.

I think mukiha has busted himself as the arguments by Mungai Kihanya are so close to Mukiha's very good arguments above.

Also note that "mukiha" appears to be the first two letters of "Mu"ngai and and the first four of "Kiha"nya combined!!


I note that mukiha had been busted before:

http://wazua.co.ke/forum...px?g=posts&m=167434
MCHUNA
#30 Posted : Monday, August 08, 2011 12:43:20 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 7/22/2011
Posts: 46
Mpenzi wrote:
Lolest! wrote:
@mpenzi, a number of wazuans already know this fact! Pls Delete the post and allow the guy to maintain his anonymity.


No need to delete post. He is no longer anonymous and clearly he doesn't seem to mind seeing how easily I connected the dots regarding his posts, his article in the Nation and his username.


u have earned your stripes,delete the post,if all wazuans are to be exposed ull scream running!!so give him a break...
...
Mpenzi
#31 Posted : Monday, August 08, 2011 1:31:52 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 10/17/2008
Posts: 1,234
MCHUNA wrote:
Mpenzi wrote:
Lolest! wrote:
@mpenzi, a number of wazuans already know this fact! Pls Delete the post and allow the guy to maintain his anonymity.


No need to delete post. He is no longer anonymous and clearly he doesn't seem to mind seeing how easily I connected the dots regarding his posts, his article in the Nation and his username.


u have earned your stripes,delete the post,if all wazuans are to be exposed ull scream running!!so give him a break...


And why would you run screaming (i presume that is what you meant)if you have chosen to give wazuans lots of clues as to who you are?
B.Timer
#32 Posted : Sunday, August 21, 2011 12:06:28 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 5/31/2008
Posts: 1,076

Namwamba argues for amending the constitution to among other things fix the sticking issue of the date of the next election. Cant fail to notice his desire (replicated by most MPs) to serve their FULL term!!


http://www.nation.co.ke/.../-/lbdjmtz/-/index.html


Mudavadi, the ODM de jure number 2 pointed out the impracticality of holding the elections in Aug 2012!!

Get the drift?

http://www.nairobistar.c...date-uncertain-mudavadi
Dunia ni msongamano..
B.Timer
#33 Posted : Monday, August 22, 2011 8:36:54 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 5/31/2008
Posts: 1,076
The Star carried this story on Saturday 20th Aug.
The Nationly only published it today Mon 22nd - stale news!

http://www.nation.co.ke/...4/-/qgbvnu/-/index.html

See the Star version here;

http://www.nairobistar.c...-date-uncertain-mudavadi
Dunia ni msongamano..
B.Timer
#34 Posted : Wednesday, August 31, 2011 4:27:13 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 5/31/2008
Posts: 1,076

Otiende Amolo, formerly a member of CoE, is qouted here saying that it is not practical to hold the next general elections any time before December 2012!!

He infact went ahead to say that the committee of experts envisioned the transitional General election being held in December 2012.


http://www.nation.co.ke/...4/-/89r62p/-/index.html

Dunia ni msongamano..
B.Timer
#35 Posted : Saturday, January 14, 2012 7:25:18 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 5/31/2008
Posts: 1,076
B.Timer wrote:
mukiha wrote:
The 10th paragraph of the SIXTH SCHEDULE in CHAPTER EIGHTEEN reads:

"10. The National Assembly existing immediately before the effective date shall continue as the National Assembly for the purposes of this Constitution for its unexpired term."

I have highlighted the phrase "for its unexpired term" because this where the contentions lies.

My understanding is that to find out what the unexpired term is, we have to go to the old constitution to find out how the term of parliament is defined.

This is found in section 59 of the OLD constitution and it reads:
59
(1) The President may at any time prorogue Parliament.

(2) The President may at any time dissolve Parliament.

(3) If the National Assembly passes a resolution which is supported by the votes of a majority of all the members of the Assembly (excluding the ex-officio members), and of which not less than seven days’ notice has been given in accordance with the standing orders of the Assembly, declaring that it has no confidence in the Government of Kenya, and the President does not within three days of the passing of that resolution either resign from his office or dissolve Parliament, Parliament shall stand dissolved on the fourth day following the day on which that resolution was passed.

(4) Parliament, unless sooner dissolved, shall continue for five years from the date when the National Assembly first meets after dissolution and shall then stand dissolved
.

(5) At any time when Kenya is at war, Parliament may from time to time provide for the extension of the period of five years specified in subsection (4) for not more than twelve months at a time: Provided that the life of Parliament shall not be extended under this subsection by more than five years.

Clearly, there WERE three ways in which the term could expire:

1] By presidential dissolution

2] By parliamentary resolution to dissolve

3] After expiry of 5 years

I do not understand why everybody is only thinking about the last one and ignoring the other two... which BTW, appear earlier in the list.

So, this is what will happen: come June next year, the President will have authority to dissolve the House, despite what the new constitution says about the term of parliament being independent. in my view, this independence is only applicable to a parliamnet elected under this constitution.

However, in order to give such a move legal backing, it would be wise to seek a constitutional interpretation through the Supreme Court.

therefore, I do not see any problem.



I must agree, yours are good arguments.

I must nonetheless take an alternative view as hereunder;

Unexpired term as used can only mean uninterupted term.

The other options given for (1&2 as above) are sanctioned interuptions.

There surely exists a difference between a premature dissolution of Parliament and running its full term to epiry.

Again I am not sure the President still holds the powers to prorogue or dissolve parliament!!!


Arguments of - if this parliament/president/cabinet were not elected/in office in accordance with the new constitution continue to be challenged.
A case in point is Uhurus budget - minister/Cabinet secretary!
Even the nomination of CJ,DCJ&DPP was handled not as per the dictates of the transitional clauses.
It is just murky!

We will have to invite the judiciary to interpret these matters. Of course there after thier view becomes the official view - binding.



http://www.standardmedia...key%20to%20polls%20date


http://www.nation.co.ke/.../-/12wigpq/-/index.html


The court gave us their opinion - direction over the matter.

That remains binding unless overturned through an appeal.

I however find their arguments to be cogent and based on proper interpretion of the Constitution as we have it - with its weaknesses and inadequancies.

They stopped short of saying that the constitution did not sufficiently aadress the important matter of the transition elections.

For me, its an in-excusable ommission on the part of the CoE.

As it were, we are at the mercy of Politicians, who have vested self interest in the matter.

We are left to hope and pray for their magnanimity and selflessness- that they act in the best interest of the Country.

The Constitution should never have put us in this situation!

We had a chance to correct such shortfalls, but the Politicians we now rely upon to act with magnanimity, created an aura of euphoric 'thinking' amongst the citizens - so that any divergent voice was drowned in political fervour!

Over to you Kibaki and/or Raila!


Dunia ni msongamano..
Mpenzi
#36 Posted : Sunday, January 15, 2012 7:11:08 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 10/17/2008
Posts: 1,234
I think we Kenyans are worst enemies. Why are we tying ourselves down to a flawed Constitution that does not even tell us when to hold the first transitional elections? CoE bungled on this one and the best option is to amend the damn Constitution! I fully support Mutula Kilonzo's Bill to amend the Consitution, move the elections date to December for ALL elections and provide for a solution to the one-third requirement for gender representation,, a problem everyone seems to have forgotten.
B.Timer
#37 Posted : Sunday, January 15, 2012 4:43:32 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 5/31/2008
Posts: 1,076
Prof Makau Mutua weighs in his opinion.

As explosive and condescending as ever.

Manages to criticise the CoE as he faults the Constitution for its shortfalls.

Opines that the Judges ought to have filled up the gaps left by the CoE:


http://www.nation.co.ke/.../-/14em8jb/-/index.html
Dunia ni msongamano..
TiggerTiggy
#38 Posted : Monday, January 16, 2012 9:36:53 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 10/13/2011
Posts: 660
it seems raila and wiper are for a december election. wonder what kibaki wants, but i suppose a 3 to 4 month extension might not be soooo bad. am sure many MP's wont mind the extension either. i forsee drama
Impunity
#39 Posted : Monday, January 16, 2012 3:18:45 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/2/2009
Posts: 26,330
Location: Masada
TiggerTiggy wrote:
it seems raila and wiper are for a december election. wonder what kibaki wants, but i suppose a 3 to 4 month extension might not be soooo bad. am sure many MP's wont mind the extension either. i forsee drama


I think the Mpig will not be Mpigs beyond 14-Jan-13 and will not draw any salo after that date!
d'oh!
Portfolio: Sold
You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.

B.Timer
#40 Posted : Tuesday, February 21, 2012 2:26:49 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 5/31/2008
Posts: 1,076

Just When will the next elections be held?

Despite assurances from Raila that as a co-principal, he was going to use his leverage in Govt to have the election fixed for this Dec, we are still languishing in uncertainty.

The president and the PM conveniently decided to push the decision to Parliament.

MPs in Parliament are likely to be guided by self interest more than anything else.

It would appear therefore, that we shouldnt expect elections anytime before March 2013!
Dunia ni msongamano..
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