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2012 or 2013!! What says the Constitution!!
B.Timer
#1 Posted : Sunday, July 31, 2011 6:41:11 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 5/31/2008
Posts: 1,076
Sunday Nation today discusses the uncertainty of when the next general election is to be held, owing to lack of clarity on the matter by the constitution.

One of first persons to raise the stink on these issues was Mutahi Ngunyi, then as their columnist!

What hypocrisy on the part of Nation Media house especially that they discontinued Mutahi Ngunyi’s articles last year, apparently for exposing the weakness in the then proposed constitution, which went ahead to become the supreme law.


http://www.nation.co.ke/...0/-/5cjvnr/-/index.html

Dunia ni msongamano..
tycho
#2 Posted : Sunday, July 31, 2011 8:42:00 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
If The Nation was under reactionary pressure while dismissing Mr.Ngunyi, then it follows that it is being consistent with the reactionary agenda of highlighting the weaknesses of the constitution to breed a sense of despair.
Lolest!
#3 Posted : Sunday, July 31, 2011 8:54:52 PM
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Joined: 3/18/2011
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Location: Kianjokoma
The NO team was attacked unnecessarily for raising such points. Ngunyi, the church etc were branded anti-change by bigoted media and other Kenyans including wazuans. Let us now live with it. Im wondering, cant we still go to the polls in August but have the new bunge sworn in Jan 2013?
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
Sober
#4 Posted : Sunday, July 31, 2011 9:18:29 PM
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Joined: 11/27/2007
Posts: 3,604
The problem here is the fact that we have left the responsibility of implementing the law to the politicians who will be messed big time. Even if it was me i wouldnt want it to come to effect that soon. We await even the interpretation to the political class.
Let us smell the coffee as kenyans.
African parents don't know how to say sorry.. the closest you will get to a sorry is a 'have you eaten'
josiah33
#5 Posted : Sunday, July 31, 2011 9:25:53 PM
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Joined: 1/27/2011
Posts: 1,777
I miss those articles by mutahi ngunyi
masukuma
#6 Posted : Sunday, July 31, 2011 9:44:50 PM
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Joined: 10/4/2006
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Location: Nairobi
Lolest! wrote:
The NO team was attacked unnecessarily for raising such points. Ngunyi, the church etc were branded anti-change by bigoted media and other Kenyans including wazuans. Let us now live with it. Im wondering, cant we still go to the polls in August but have the new bunge sworn in Jan 2013?

all these issues had been raised - but people were too 'polarized' to see them. ngoja na bado!
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
Sober
#7 Posted : Sunday, July 31, 2011 9:52:41 PM
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Joined: 11/27/2007
Posts: 3,604
@masukuma. The next paliament will have to take over as the constitution stipulates hence once the eletions are done the current mpigs will lose the control. That is why they are manipulating the elections day- it is the critical activity.
African parents don't know how to say sorry.. the closest you will get to a sorry is a 'have you eaten'
'user'
#8 Posted : Sunday, July 31, 2011 9:58:53 PM
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Joined: 12/3/2010
Posts: 1,141
Location: Londokwe
what if the no team won? we would still be fighting for new constitution.for sure we are far much better than if we were still with the old constitution.some shortcomings not withstanding.
2012 is here.Kenya is Ours.Be Part of The Peace Keeping Mission To Protect Our Motherland.Say No To Violence and Tribal Hatred .If you can read this,wewe ni mtu amesoma, usifikirie kama mtu hajaenda shule .Ni Hayo Tu
Sober
#9 Posted : Sunday, July 31, 2011 10:29:02 PM
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Joined: 11/27/2007
Posts: 3,604
'user' wrote:
what if the no team won? we would still be fighting for new constitution.for sure we are far much better than if we were still with the old constitution.some shortcomings not withstanding.


I agree with you, we are better of because we are dealing with the shortcomings of the constitution. We would still be debating about even the nitty gritty things like the type of gorvenment and the powers of the house.
African parents don't know how to say sorry.. the closest you will get to a sorry is a 'have you eaten'
masukuma
#10 Posted : Monday, August 01, 2011 5:56:42 AM
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Joined: 10/4/2006
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Location: Nairobi
Sober wrote:
'user' wrote:
what if the no team won? we would still be fighting for new constitution.for sure we are far much better than if we were still with the old constitution.some shortcomings not withstanding.


I agree with you, we are better of because we are dealing with the shortcomings of the constitution. We would still be debating about even the nitty gritty things like the type of gorvenment and the powers of the house.

we cannot 'deal' with the shortcomings before 2013. right now we have to put up with liberal interpretations...next crisis - Budget!
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
B.Timer
#11 Posted : Monday, August 01, 2011 7:55:05 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 5/31/2008
Posts: 1,076

No point in going to the NO/YES debate today!

To set the records straight, the new constitution is superior to the repealed one in a number of aspects.

@User
People like Ngunyi wanted these kind of inconsistenceis and other weaknesses addressed prior. Any such call was drowned with mob justice type of mentality!!

The Nation is beginning to eat its vomit.

Dunia ni msongamano..
mukiha
#12 Posted : Monday, August 01, 2011 9:47:58 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
The 10th paragraph of the SIXTH SCHEDULE in CHAPTER EIGHTEEN reads:

"10. The National Assembly existing immediately before the effective date shall continue as the National Assembly for the purposes of this Constitution for its unexpired term."

I have highlighted the phrase "for its unexpired term" because this where the contentions lies.

My understanding is that to find out what the unexpired term is, we have to go to the old constitution to find out how the term of parliament is defined.

This is found in section 59 of the OLD constitution and it reads:
59
(1) The President may at any time prorogue Parliament.

(2) The President may at any time dissolve Parliament.

(3) If the National Assembly passes a resolution which is supported by the votes of a majority of all the members of the Assembly (excluding the ex-officio members), and of which not less than seven days’ notice has been given in accordance with the standing orders of the Assembly, declaring that it has no confidence in the Government of Kenya, and the President does not within three days of the passing of that resolution either resign from his office or dissolve Parliament, Parliament shall stand dissolved on the fourth day following the day on which that resolution was passed.

(4) Parliament, unless sooner dissolved, shall continue for five years from the date when the National Assembly first meets after dissolution and shall then stand dissolved.

(5) At any time when Kenya is at war, Parliament may from time to time provide for the extension of the period of five years specified in subsection (4) for not more than twelve months at a time: Provided that the life of Parliament shall not be extended under this subsection by more than five years.

Clearly, there WERE three ways in which the term could expire:

1] By presidential dissolution

2] By parliamentary resolution to dissolve

3] After expiry of 5 years

I do not understand why everybody is only thinking about the last one and ignoring the other two... which BTW, appear earlier in the list.

So, this is what will happen: come June next year, the President will have authority to dissolve the House, despite what the new constitution says about the term of parliament being independent. in my view, this independence is only applicable to a parliamnet elected under this constitution.

However, in order to give such a move legal backing, it would be wise to seek a constitutional interpretation through the Supreme Court.

therefore, I do not see any problem.
Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
mukiha
#13 Posted : Monday, August 01, 2011 10:15:15 AM
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Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
...furthermore, people are completely ignoring Article 102 of the new constitution which reads:

102. (1) The term of each House of Parliament expires on the date of the next
general election.

So, we shall just call elections on 14 August next year and on that date, the "unexpired term" of the current parliament will come to an automatic end!

Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
Mpenzi
#14 Posted : Monday, August 01, 2011 12:11:32 PM
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Joined: 10/17/2008
Posts: 1,234
mukiha wrote:
...furthermore, people are completely ignoring Article 102 of the new constitution which reads:

102. (1) The term of each House of Parliament expires on the date of the next
general election.

So, we shall just call elections on 14 August next year and on that date, the "unexpired term" of the current parliament will come to an automatic end!



But we still have the Article 89(2) problem:

"The Independent Electoral and Boundaries Commission shall review the names and boundaries of constituencies at intervals
of not less than eight years, and not more than twelve years, but any review shall be completed at least twelve months before a general election of members of Parliament."

It is unlikely that this review, by a body that is yet to be set up, will be completed by 14th August 2011.
Obi 1 Kanobi
#15 Posted : Monday, August 01, 2011 12:42:31 PM
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Joined: 7/23/2008
Posts: 3,017
Gud stuff Mukiha, I really like the research you go into before posting.

The same sentiments were shared by Koki Muli in the same sunday nation that most are accusing here of lacking clarity.

In my opinion, the date for the next GE is very clear, it should be August 2012, however, should the supreme court rule otherwise, well and good. To me there is no crisis that some here are screaming about.

The new constitution has already given us soo much that I am surprised some still think we should not have passed it.
"The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
kingfisher
#16 Posted : Monday, August 01, 2011 1:28:22 PM
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Joined: 4/9/2008
Posts: 2,824
mimi hapana mwnasheria... but my litle understaning of the electral date is as follows:-

kama kura ni next year, the date can only be August 2012 because we can only vote in august. Otherwise August 2013. Clause 101. (1) A general election of members of Parliament shall be held on the second Tuesday in August in every fifth year.

Surely we can't vote in 2013 coz there is no reason now to prolong parliament (and is it prolongable anyway, i doubt)!
When I have money, I get rid of it quickly, lest it find a way into my heart.
Mo
#17 Posted : Monday, August 01, 2011 1:46:54 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 9/21/2007
Posts: 326
am very ignorant in matters law; my 2 cents though: the issue is what was the spirit in the law? did the drafters intend us to vote in 2012 or did they intend to prolong the life of the current parliament?
Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even the dull and the ignorant; they too have their story.
2012
#18 Posted : Monday, August 01, 2011 1:57:24 PM
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Joined: 12/9/2009
Posts: 6,592
Location: Nairobi
In my understanding, the new constitution is now the supreme law of the land and anything else that existed before ceased the day it was promulgated and that's why MPs have to pay taxes despite being elected under the old constitution where this was not expected of them. So election will either be in Aug 2012 or Aug 2013.

BBI will solve it
:)
bwenyenye
#19 Posted : Monday, August 01, 2011 2:27:39 PM
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Joined: 5/24/2007
Posts: 1,805
I am with Mukiha on this one. We are too focused on the third option of the expiration of the parliamentary term. I am of the belief, that The President will dissolve the house follwoing one of two things,these guys will make a mess of themselves and the whole process to the extent that a sackig will be the only way out if teh president is to save face, or, they will fail to pass some crucial bills which will then lead some fellow Kenyan to go to court to demand a dissolution of parliament. The CJ, will then advise the president to dissolve it and he will happily oblige and three, he has a lot to gain in an interim period when there is no parliament in place and only the executive is working. That opportunity is priceless.
I Think Therefore I Am
vinii
#20 Posted : Monday, August 01, 2011 2:33:32 PM
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Joined: 10/14/2009
Posts: 2,057
Mpenzi wrote:
mukiha wrote:
...furthermore, people are completely ignoring Article 102 of the new constitution which reads:

102. (1) The term of each House of Parliament expires on the date of the next
general election.

So, we shall just call elections on 14 August next year and on that date, the "unexpired term" of the current parliament will come to an automatic end!



But we still have the Article 89(2) problem:

"The Independent Electoral and Boundaries Commission shall review the names and boundaries of constituencies at intervals
of not less than eight years, and not more than twelve years, but any review shall be completed at least twelve months before a general election of members of Parliament."

It is unlikely that this review, by a body that is yet to be set up, will be completed by 14th August 2011.

@mpezi, had never thought of this hurdle - if truth be told, it will require not just sharp legal minds but the general goodwill of kenyans at this stage
If you are an eagle don't hang around with chickens; chickens don't fly....
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