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Copa America: Messi is failing again
mwenza
#21 Posted : Friday, July 08, 2011 12:18:48 PM
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Joined: 4/22/2009
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TAZ wrote:
@ Mwenza....Wacha mambo ya what you used to hear, Maradona might have been a good player but unfortunately i can't lie to you that i used to watch him play in the 80's, hizo siku TV ilikuwa shida kupata...labda recorded clips. The 90's (especially at Napoli) was all about his stories with cocaine and other bad news. Messi has been at Barca since he was 16, i don't think i need to remind anyone of his achievements there...we can't possibly tell how he'll perform in another club because at the moment its very difficult to put a price tag on him.

The guy has only featured in 2 World Cups; in 2006 alikuwa bench but when brought in he scored a goal and also became the youngest Argentine player to ever represent the country in a WC. Actually if you look at his stats for the National team he's been mostly used as a sub. In 2007 Copa America he scored in almost all matches and helped Argentina reach the final...2008 he literally won the Olympics for them. In last year's WC he was Argentina's playmaker and was almost at the centre of all their goals. At the moment he's almost at Par with great Maradona but he still has so many years ahead of him.

@ Mc Reggae....Zidane is also up there with the greats.



@TAZ............Can tell you for a fact that I watched, in real time, Maradona tearing England apart at the WC.
IF YOU EXPECT ME TO POST ANYTHING POSITIVE ABOUT ASENO, YOU MAY AS WELL SIT ON A PIN
TAZ
#22 Posted : Friday, July 08, 2011 12:38:37 PM
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Joined: 11/14/2007
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@ Mwenza....I apologise for assuming that you didn't get a chance to watch the 1986 World Cup in real time.
Sober
#23 Posted : Friday, July 08, 2011 12:46:47 PM
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TAZ wrote:
@ Mwenza....I apologise for assuming that you didn't get a chance to watch the 1986 World Cup in real time.


i didnt watch that tournament too but i am very informed about what happened. just like we quote the 6os world cup yet most of us were nowhere on the radar.
African parents don't know how to say sorry.. the closest you will get to a sorry is a 'have you eaten'
Jus Blazin
#24 Posted : Friday, July 08, 2011 12:46:51 PM
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@Taz, read your history again. Maradona's time at Napoli led to them winning their only two Seria A titles, Coppa Italia, UEFA Cup. He singlehandedly led his mediocre team to their most successful period, in addition to leading Argentina to the world cup trophy in 1986 and becoming the tournament's MVP. Wachana na mambo ati it was all about drugs.

Messi seems reliant on Xavi and Iniesta, that's why he cannot replicate Maradona's feats. Messi has yet to prove his international appeal. He has to prove he can singlehandedly be counted upon just like Pele and Maradona, the greatest among the greats. He has time now, but bado hajafika.
Luck is when Preparation meets Opportunity. ~ Lucius Annaeus Seneca
TAZ
#25 Posted : Friday, July 08, 2011 1:19:27 PM
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@ Jus Blazin....Sijakataa maradona won trophies while at Napoli but that was the same time story za cocaine came up, anyway my point is that the Barca player has what it takes to reach the same levels as pele and the rest. I always take time to watch La Liga and i must say that Messi performs with or without Xavi and Iniesta. In the Real/Barca Cl match it was all individual talent, no support or assist from anyone. If only we could get to see him playing for another club but we know that's not about to happen. Why are you comparing someone who's 24 yrs Old still achieving to players who have already retired? We should be discussing who's better than him now...

@ Sober, the thing is in my time watching football (from akina Klinsmann, Stoichkov, Matheus, Bebeto, Romario, Ronaldo, Suker etc) i've not seen anyone better with the ball than Messi....Zidane maybe.
Jus Blazin
#26 Posted : Friday, July 08, 2011 4:43:07 PM
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Joined: 10/23/2008
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Taz, the same comparison was done between Pele and Maradona, yet they played decades apart.
Luck is when Preparation meets Opportunity. ~ Lucius Annaeus Seneca
safariant
#27 Posted : Friday, July 08, 2011 10:35:37 PM
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Location: ant hill - red hill
This nguy was an artist... noma sana

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smano
#28 Posted : Monday, July 11, 2011 8:45:49 AM
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I think the link below sums up the debate pretty well...

http://www.goal.com/en-g...-argentina-why-lifeless
BEER IS LIVING PROOF THAT GOD LOVES US AND WANTS US TO BE HAPPY!
bkismat
#29 Posted : Monday, July 11, 2011 9:24:28 AM
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Joined: 10/23/2009
Posts: 2,375
"With Argentina, the element of doubt will always be there - can you match Maradona? Can you win the World Cup? You can never be the best until you do, they so often tell him."
"What the player himself must be considering, and what the rest of the world is thinking, is: Can Messi truly join the pantheon of greats with such indecisive outings in the colours of his country? After all, that's how the Pele and Maradona debate derived in the first place."
It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt...
-Mark Twain
McReggae
#30 Posted : Monday, July 11, 2011 9:44:18 AM
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Joined: 6/17/2008
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Location: Nairobi
The pressure on this young man is just too much!!!!!

BUBBLING OVER

Lionel Messi frozen out by Argentina team-mates

By Tim Sturtridge & Alejandro Pérez in Cordoba

The deep freeze in the Argentinian dressing room makes the sub-zero temperatures at the 2011 Copa America seem positively tropical. With just two points to show after meetings with Bolivia and Colombia the cracks are being to show in Sergio Batista’s squad of explosive egos.

A locker room dust-up between Lionel Messi and defender Nicolás Burdisso has the host nation’s press in a frenzy. Burdisso is believed to have confronted Messi after the attacker put in yet another below par performance for his country. Burdisso told Messi in no uncertain terms to pull his finger out. When the Barcelona star reacted to the comment team-mates had to separate the pair.

Messi will be itching to set the record straight in Argentina’s final group match against Costa Rica. A hat-trick from the number ten is priced at 15.00 with paf.com. With Messi coming in for abuse from all sides in Argentina it took the player’s father to speak out in his defence.

Jorge Messi revealed the forlorn figure Messi has been cutting whilst wearing the Argentinian shirt extends beyond the pitch. “I’ve never seen Leo like this, he feels beaten. Just a few weeks ago there was so much enthusiasm in the country about the Copa America. Now it’s turned into one big slap in the face for Leo.”

Jorge has a particular issue with the constant comparisons with Diego Maradona that his son has levelled at him. “People criticise Leo for not singing the national anthem but they forget that he turned down the chance to play for Spain. Leo doesn’t have to prove his passion for his country to anyone.”

Messi’s father also had an answer for the fans that can’t understand why the player who turns up for Barcelona disappears when he pulls on the blue and white stripes. “It’s foolish to compare Leo’s play with Barcelona with his performances for the national team. Barcelona are reaping the rewards of work that has been going on for years. Argentina is a team just looking for stability at this moment.

While Messi and Burdisso were going at it hammer and tongs after the Colombia game it’s also believed that a dust-up occurred between Javier Zanetti and Carlos Tevez. Staff at Colón de Santa Fe’s stadium now have their work cut out to repair the home dressing room in time for Colombia’s meeting with Bolivia on Sunday.
..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
TAZ
#31 Posted : Monday, July 11, 2011 9:58:18 AM
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Joined: 11/14/2007
Posts: 4,152
I like these comments:

Juan Martin:

I've seen Messi play for Barcelona and he was much worse yesterday, but it is because of our team and our coach. Checho doesn't know about football, he has all these great players but no idea how to use them.


Sergio:

We are lucky enough to have the best player in the world, but we make him look normal. Why, because the rest of the players aren't on the same level. Colombia did not give us chances, and if we go out of the Copa America it will be a shame on Argentina.

Agustin:


We've had two matches now where those three forwards can't play together, why can everyone realise it apart from Batista? Messi is a great player but we don't help him if the team does not support and give him the chance to shine.

Daniel:

Before I was not a big fan of Messi, but then in the last years he has got better and better for the Seleccion. Now though, the fault is all Batista's. Checho is wasting our chance to win the Copa with his system that tries to be Barcelona, but isn't.



FundamentAli
#32 Posted : Wednesday, July 13, 2011 4:22:19 PM
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Location: Nairobi
Yesterdays match of Argentina vs Costa Rica proved what Messi is made of. He tore the Costa Rica defence 10 times. Higuan wasted all the through passes made by Messi. All three goals scored by Argentina had assists from Messi. It was Messi and the ten robots. Boy is a genius.
Sober
#33 Posted : Thursday, July 14, 2011 9:30:26 AM
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Joined: 11/27/2007
Posts: 3,604
The goals scored in this tournament are just fantastic. I just watched the brazil-uruguay game and i am impressed
African parents don't know how to say sorry.. the closest you will get to a sorry is a 'have you eaten'
accelriskconsult
#34 Posted : Friday, July 15, 2011 3:37:51 PM
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Location: Nai
@Freiks and just blazing; Maradona scored 22 goals in 36 appearances for Barcelona but back then he was not influential in the big games and only won the copa del rey and the super cup- before he moved to Napoli. You can argue that he was not designed to be a big club player. At Napoli, he scored 81 goals in 188 appearances (50% rate). His combined scoring rate for Napoli and Barca is 42 %. Messi on the other had has a 67% scoring rate for Barcelona (119 in 177).

Maradona achieved his fame more for his notorious dribbling and hob nobbing with the Mafia - thus great coverage from gazetta de la sporto and the other mafia controlled newspapers.

The Maradona of '86 was supported by a cast of talented and physical players - they mixed velvet with steel. Messi's cast for argentina is more velvet and no steel ~ without the skill of Barcelona. It reminds me more of Arsenal (and yes I am an Arsenal fan). I find it hard to heap the blame for argentina's failures on him.

Luis Nazario de Lima Ronaldo aka the rabbit is definitely the greatest striker of his generation but the best number 10 is Messi closely followed by Zidane. Maradona belonged to an earlier generation that should compare between Cruyff, Platini, Zico etc. He stood out in that generation.

Head to head for influencing games, I would find it hard to choose between him and Messi but any day give me the Messi-ah.

Please dont invoke the name of messi in vain by mentioning the likes of Thierry Henry. TH14 belongs in the third tier of Andy Cole, Dwight Yorke, Raul, Shevchenko and CR7.
freiks
#35 Posted : Sunday, July 17, 2011 4:13:52 AM
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Who said Messi was so special...though he had some wonderful touches he could not help argentines in their own backyard. Suarez as usual the normal fall over and theatrics but he made sure that they went the nxt level
TAZ Forget that messi will go to the anals of history as the best ever player for his country
Well done URUGUAY
Life is an endless adventure
Sober
#36 Posted : Sunday, July 17, 2011 4:05:09 PM
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Joined: 11/27/2007
Posts: 3,604
Argentina bundled out of the tournament.
African parents don't know how to say sorry.. the closest you will get to a sorry is a 'have you eaten'
slickyoz
#37 Posted : Monday, July 18, 2011 3:47:22 AM
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Location: Nairobi
Team Argentina failing not messi..kwani alikuwa anacheza peke yake!!..if they can't coordinate and utilize messi skills to get goals,then he becomes a normal striker unlike when he is playing for barcelona..with the likes of iniesta,xavi n the rest..Bure kabisa!!
Those who follow the crowd usually get lost in it - Techbiznah
hoodrat
#38 Posted : Monday, July 18, 2011 9:46:20 AM
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Joined: 4/27/2010
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And Brazil out too courtesy of Paraguay.Incredibly they lost all four of ther penalties!My money is on Uruguay!

http://www.skysports.com...64,11065_3425791,00.html
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waza
#39 Posted : Monday, July 18, 2011 10:32:52 AM
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Joined: 7/18/2011
Posts: 75
Messi has a lot of work to do to be one of the all time greats. He doesnt have the ability to command and dictate play as compared to other great players. Individual performance of a star does not vary with those surrounding him. signs and flashes of greatness will always be evident. Messi shows nothing when wearing national colors. Moderate players like Diego Forlan could even dictate outcome of games!(worldcup 2010). Barcelona is built around iniesta and xavi(note they perform both for club and country!). if Messi does not fit to their play, he will be sold but not these two! Ronaldinho and rest can confirm!
Every day I get up and look through the Forbes list of the richest people in the World. If I'm not there, I go to work.
TAZ
#40 Posted : Monday, July 18, 2011 11:00:48 AM
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Joined: 11/14/2007
Posts: 4,152
@ Waza....Messi is a playmaker, at Barca he's the link between Xavi/iniesta and Villa/pedro. He carried the team last season in the CL when Iniesta and Xavi picked up injuries. I've been following the Copa America and my conclusion was that Argentina was let down by the likes of Tevez, Di Maria and Higuain. Messi created so many chances but they were not being executed. At Barca he's surrounded by creative players but back home its the likes of Mascherano and Cambiasso for company. Whether he performs for his national team or not the fact remains that no one is better than Messi at the moment....we can compare him with all the past greats but history will compare him with players in his generation.
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