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amga
#1 Posted : Wednesday, June 29, 2011 5:44:18 AM
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Location: hapa Kenya
from the comparisons so far seems the vw is better than the toyota better running, more kms before any replacement, better fuel efficiency, better engines fsi vs vvti am asking for a second opinion
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iKenya
#2 Posted : Wednesday, June 29, 2011 6:51:57 AM
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What comparisons so far?
Quote:
Buy when there's blood in the streets, even if the blood is your own...
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Borsenmakler
#3 Posted : Wednesday, June 29, 2011 7:08:49 AM
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You are comparing which model of vw and Toyota? Because you can't generalize be specific.
Spread love like violence.
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Horton
#4 Posted : Wednesday, June 29, 2011 9:11:11 AM
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german efficiency....even better are the BMWs ...fun to drive, cheap on gas, service every 20,000kms instead of the japanese every 5000kms...my 3vseries gives me 14kms per litre of daily town commute
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tuvok
#5 Posted : Wednesday, June 29, 2011 9:43:32 AM
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Agreeing with @Borsenmakler . One does need to be specific.

I've looked at several stats for several cars over time and have come to the conclusion that given similar conditions,engine type etc , a 1500cc would have not too different fuel efficiencies for various car models/makers.


Now driving style does affects consumption...

Incidentally one can't compare FSI with vvti as they are not a 1:1. Compare FSI with GDI/D4 as this is the same tech.

I do love the VW engines though :) TFSI especially. A small turbo + FSI = useful power with fuel efficiency.
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tuvok
#6 Posted : Wednesday, June 29, 2011 10:00:25 AM
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Of interest: a quick google:

UK Market:
Reliability Survey (2005) http://www.whatcar.com/c...iability-survey/217350#
First European car is #9

US Market
(2007) http://money.cnn.com/200...r_reliability/index.htm

US Market
(2010) http://www.insideline.co...reliability-survey.html
Some scathing comments from owners of Audi, BMW and Mercedes-Benz

Australia( off a US/UK survey)
(2007) http://www.caradvice.com...top-10-reliable-brands/

I'd take a closer look at the Australia survey since they have closest conditions to Africa
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Borsenmakler
#7 Posted : Wednesday, June 29, 2011 11:18:43 AM
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@ tuvok, yeah, comparing an FSI engine with vvti is not prudent. Actually you should compare the vvti and and the i-VTEC technology from Honda. From the top of my head, Cars from Germany using fsi engines are Audi A3,4 and 6 and 2007 Vw jetta GLI. For vvti there is the toyota celica, avensis 1.8 and some makes of toyota rav 4. But to the question, IMO, fsi is better than vvti any day
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milken
#8 Posted : Wednesday, June 29, 2011 12:32:31 PM
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Borsenmakler wrote:
@ tuvok, yeah, comparing an FSI engine with vvti is not prudent. Actually you should compare the vvti and and the i-VTEC technology from Honda. From the top of my head, Cars from Germany using fsi engines are Audi A3,4 and 6 and 2007 Vw jetta GLI. For vvti there is the toyota celica, avensis 1.8 and some makes of toyota rav 4. But to the question, IMO, fsi is better than vvti any day


FSI is AUDI/VW name for Gasoline direct injection. Hence for Toyota you can only compare with a D4 engnine and not VVTI.

Other marques use the following names
BMW High Precision Injection (HPI)
Ford SCi (Smart Charge injection) for Direct-Injection-Spark-Ignition (DISI)
Mazda Direct Injection Spark Ignition (DISI)
Mercedes-Benz Charged Gasoline Injection, (CGI)

i-VTEC is actually Honda's VVTI equivalent. Their Direct injection is i-VTEC i
Itari muting'oe ihuragwo ngi ni Ngai
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tom_boy
#9 Posted : Wednesday, June 29, 2011 1:39:50 PM
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What do you guys mean you cannot compare fsi to vvti. The fact that they are not the same is all the reason to compare them. . unless of course moja ni engine ya tractor na ingine ni ya gari.
They must find it difficult....... those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority. -G. Massey.
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JkMwatha
#10 Posted : Wednesday, June 29, 2011 5:49:24 PM
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tom_boy wrote:
What do you guys mean you cannot compare fsi to vvti. The fact that they are not the same is all the reason to compare them. . unless of course moja ni engine ya tractor na ingine ni ya gari.


ditto.... agreed.
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amga
#11 Posted : Thursday, June 30, 2011 6:49:20 AM
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Location: hapa Kenya
comparing the 1600cc vw touran tsi vs the toyota spacio 1600cc and since there are more vw on the Kenyan roads are the spares available lastly anyone know what the crsp for the touran is the current kra crsp list does not have it. @ milken from the wazua archives the D4 is really a no go zone with its challenges this was even confirmed by a some one who had a premio with a D4 engine, had to replace it.
the vw seems like a great family vehicle seems spacious
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Borsenmakler
#12 Posted : Thursday, June 30, 2011 7:27:35 AM
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JkMwatha wrote:
tom_boy wrote:
What do you guys mean you cannot compare fsi to vvti. The fact that they are not the same is all the reason to compare them. . unless of course moja ni engine ya tractor na ingine ni ya gari.


ditto.... agreed.

I still say you cant compare them, the technology they use for intake of air for it to mix with fuel is different.
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milken
#13 Posted : Thursday, June 30, 2011 9:32:50 AM
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amga wrote:
comparing the 1600cc vw touran tsi vs the toyota spacio 1600cc and since there are more vw on the Kenyan roads are the spares available lastly anyone know what the crsp for the touran is the current kra crsp list does not have it. @ milken from the wazua archives the D4 is really a no go zone with its challenges this was even confirmed by a some one who had a premio with a D4 engine, had to replace it.
the vw seems like a great family vehicle seems spacious

They will use the CRSP of a VW with a similar engine capacity. In this case either a Golf or Jetta.
Itari muting'oe ihuragwo ngi ni Ngai
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jamplu
#14 Posted : Thursday, June 30, 2011 9:38:39 AM
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Comparing Japanese technology with Europe technology esp. German technology is a waste of time
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Intelligentsia
#15 Posted : Thursday, June 30, 2011 10:17:02 AM
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jamplu wrote:
Comparing Japanese technology with Europe technology esp. German technology is a waste of time


100% agreed.
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tuvok
#16 Posted : Thursday, June 30, 2011 4:17:21 PM
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Back to D4 engines. According to the docs, manuals etc, I've found online, the 3S-FSE engine (the first Toyota D4) also incorporates VVT-i.

On the D4: http://alflash.com.ua/d4e.htm
Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/...soline_Direct_Injection

This quote should settle the VVT vs DI debate:
Direct injection may also be accompanied by other engine technologies such as variable valve timing (VVT) and tuned/multi path or variable length intake manifolding (VLIM, or VIM).

I understand the reticence people have with the D4 though but I quite like the power/economy balance.

On Jap vs Euro tech - Mitsubishi and VW do share engine technology. Have a look at one of the engines available for the Mitsubishi Airtek. I don't think we have quite a clear picture on which is best considering many guys habitually abuse their cars locally by choice or otherwise :)
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amga
#17 Posted : Thursday, June 30, 2011 11:39:40 PM
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OK wazua i agree yes you cannot compare european vs japanese vehicles their target is so different.some one let me know how readily spares for vw are in the market
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JkMwatha
#18 Posted : Friday, July 01, 2011 12:09:09 AM
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amga wrote:
OK wazua i agree yes you cannot compare european vs japanese vehicles their target is so different.some one let me know how readily spares for vw are in the market


They are readily available. I have been shipping new and used parts weekly from Europe. New parts will cost less (approx. 50-65% of the prices available in Kenya) even when you consider cost of freight. Used spare parts... much cheaper.

You pay for the parts in Nairobi and wait 7-10 days for delivery.
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JkMwatha
#19 Posted : Friday, July 01, 2011 12:31:26 AM
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Why complicate things...?
You can compare anything... depending on what you're looking for.

diesel vs petrol engines, european vs japanese, 4x4 vs 2-wheel...
Cars that hold value vs those that don't.

E.g. If someone has previously only owned Japanese makes is considering a European car, he/she is likely to compare the two before 'crossing over'
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hardwood
#20 Posted : Thursday, July 13, 2017 12:22:24 PM
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Joined: 7/28/2015
Posts: 9,562
Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
Thousands of owners of VW and Audi are bringing a class action against the manufacturer citing poor performance, worse fuel consumption. Thousands of drivers suffer engine power loss.

https://www.theguardian....ssions-fix-class-action

https://www.theguardian....ix-left-car-undriveable

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