wazua Sat, Apr 11, 2026
Welcome Guest Search | Active Topics | Log In

2 Pages<12
Infrustructure Bond Investor Vs KCB Share Investor
VituVingiSana
#11 Posted : Saturday, March 14, 2009 11:57:00 AM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,366
Location: Nairobi
@jammo & kularaha.

KCB may not have bought CDSs but the question asked was returns over 18 months...

Now... the issue is that if KCB is hit by a few more Tritons then its profits (& div) gets wiped out. For 'safety' GoK bonds beat KCB hands down.

If you want a guarantee then GoK bonds. If you want growth (divs + capital) over 2-5 years then KCB shares.

I am a little leery about KCB's loan loss provision. I think it is too low. Could they have adjusted the terms to bring NPLs down? Or not used the strictest definitions?

Nevertheless,I am confident that KCB will recover the Triton cash. Why? Coz the GoK will cover the loss whether giving KCB the cash or giving them special bonds (like NBK got).

On the last point I am relying on a blogger who made a great argument at www.coldtusker.blogspot.com

Greedy when others are fearful,Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase WB
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
Wakanyugi
#12 Posted : Saturday, March 14, 2009 3:28:00 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 7/3/2007
Posts: 1,635
Over six months it is hard to tell for sure. I would say the bond

Over 18 months plus,KCB certainly,for all the reasons given. Plus inflation. If inflation rises your 12.5% guaranteed return on the bond is toast. Not the same KCB which would be likely to rise in value - historically a rise in inflation tends to positively correlate with rise in stock markets as buyers desert bonds in search of higher returns. Winner &ndash; KCB.

For Vitu,who argues that KCB could collapse,that could happen,but this fact can not be used with any confidence on an 18th month time horizon. In any case a KCB collapse would be a black swan event,one so momentous as to - perhaps - be preceded by a collapse of the state. If that happened your bond would go south too.
"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
slykat
#13 Posted : Saturday, March 14, 2009 4:13:00 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 2/20/2007
Posts: 359
KCB is solid! Simba anytime it goes below 20!

@Vituvingisana; I totally beg to differ. African banks r conservative (but,I am not too sure EB is conservative enough) and do not engage in speculations such as sub-prime morgages and debt swaps,commodities,currencies and off-shore securities. Moreover,Kenyan home/house values cannot fall to levels witnessed in the West due to massive under-supply - thus they are reliably valuable collatteral.

@MainaT; historically,Kenyan banks deal with liquidity issues by cutting back on loans and investing primarily in govt papers,which they are doing - esp KCB n BBK. Kenyans deal with liquidity issues by saving instead of investing - a plus for banks - coz jobs become unsecure.
KCB regional expansion into regional Economies that can only look up from years of war,will hedge against local decline in profits.

Someone said Triton was brought down by the liquidity issues; no,quite the opposite,they had open credit lines but speculated in oil buying at peak prices and then oil prices crushed = bust!

MainaT is right,a few companies with KCB huge loans going bust can mess the bank in 6 months! That is why I have been wondering just which manufacturers and exporters owe KCB big money.

But this should not worry investors too much as KCB cannot be allowed to collapse. There would definitely be a govt bail-out in case of big trouble - like they did with NBK.

In sum,

1. risk on KCB is minimal.
2. speculation on anything other than land can be high-risk!







When buying shares,ask yourself,would you buy the whole company?
jammo
#14 Posted : Saturday, March 14, 2009 4:59:00 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 2/12/2008
Posts: 345
@vituvingi.... u'd rather copy paste coldtusker ..otherwise ur argument is based on suppositions at best n should be dismissed!

The race is not always to the swift..nor the battle always to the strong..nor food always to the wise..nor riches always to the intelligent..favor is not always to the skilled..or learned..but time and chance happens to all. Ecl9:5..
ecstacy
#15 Posted : Tuesday, May 12, 2009 1:35:00 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 2/26/2008
Posts: 4,449
My risk taking was duly rewarded. Sold KCB at a profit of 26% net of commissions in just 3 months as compared to waiting for 10 months to receive the 12.5% guaranteed return the Infrustructure Bond would have given me after 6 months.

A 4% profit on 2009 Q1 is not something I invested with KCB for in the short-mid term. I've duly invested with AccessKenya and its price is already headed North.


Kamau Mugi
#16 Posted : Wednesday, May 13, 2009 10:07:00 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 6/25/2008
Posts: 6

I realise that I may have come to the party a bit late but here is my Kshs.0.02.

The relationship between Risk and Return may be stated thus: for assuming a higher level of risk,the sophisticated investor ought to demand a higher rate of return!

With all due respect,I suspect that the returns you have given us have not been adjusted for Risk (and Taxes for capital gains (?) and dividends vs this infrastructure bond).

I suspect that the picture with Risk Adjusted Returns would be quite different especially so in your first scenario! (Comparing Return per unit of Risk for the two investments)

It has been proven in other markets: that in a Bear,Bonds over a 1 to 3 yr period,have significantly outperformed Equities.

Indeed,the prudent investor/portfolio manager would do well to have at least 65cents to the Shilling invested in bonds right now,while keeping an eye on interest rates of course (re National Budget)



ecstacy
#17 Posted : Thursday, May 14, 2009 9:39:00 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 2/26/2008
Posts: 4,449
Nice formulae,I'll check it up thank you!

But...in just 3 months...(for stocks) and 6 months (for the bond)......

KCB: 26% return vs Bond: 6.25% return
AccessKenya :50% return vs Bond: 6.25% return
Equity Bank 51% return vs Bond: 6.25% return

How will these figures comparatively be in December? ...I'll hold save for KCB which I've since cashed out in favor of SK and sitting on an aggregate 50% return.

Boss,I'm satisfied with the stock gains whichever formula you apply.
2 Pages<12
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Copyright © 2026 Wazua.co.ke. All Rights Reserved.