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Jubilee Holdings results FY2010 profit jumps 84 pct
invest0r
#101 Posted : Thursday, June 02, 2011 10:08:07 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 12/15/2010
Posts: 162
guru267 wrote:
youcan'tstopusnow wrote:
deal, did Jubilee make an underwriting profit or loss? guru is talking about an underwriting loss while in your blog you mention "Underwriting profits increased by 42 percent to 523 million shillings in 2010".


@youcant please do not listen to @the deal... He's research seems fllawed...

Jubilee made an undewriting profit growth of 42% to half a billion shillings... (best in the industry)
They then decided to inflate the claims of their life business by 1.5 billion so as to surpress the profits and cushion bad years... ( source AGM)

THERE WAS NO UNDERWRITING LOSS


@guru267, deal research is not flawed. Jubilee made an UNDERWRITING LOSS OF KES 258,580,000. And if we were to assume they inflated their insurance claims by KES 1.5B the underwriting income would not be half a billion shillings and it would not be the best in the industry. Check your digits and come out clearly on this one
Genghis Khan
#102 Posted : Thursday, June 02, 2011 10:17:15 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 8/5/2010
Posts: 335
Location: Nairobi
the deal wrote:
@Guru you were right all along...Jub didnt make any underwriting losses...they just inflated their claims which is quiet acceptable...thus the correct way to evaluate an insurance business is through the balance sheet...thats what Buffet uses...i read his 2004 letter to shareholders...he focuses on 2 key metrics...1. Float and 2. Return on Float.


Think
In summary...

Their UNDERWRITERS made money...
Their PORTFOLIO / ASSET MANAGERS made money...

Think
"I'd rather be lucky than clever... every time!" - ME
"The problem is not what we don't know... it's what we know for sure that just ain't!" - MARK TWAIN
"Space we can recover... time never!" - NAPOLEON BONAPARTE
the deal
#103 Posted : Thursday, June 02, 2011 11:44:23 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,534
Location: Windhoek/Nairobbery
Jub would make Buffet smile...i discovered his secret to why BH is so successful and Jub is just doing that...the Key is FLOAT...JUB is so undervalued.
invest0r
#104 Posted : Thursday, June 02, 2011 12:47:21 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 12/15/2010
Posts: 162
@the deal, you seem to be one person who is easily swayed by wind. Elaborate on this float that has swayed you this time round. Hope you are not trying to pump and dump this counter
the deal
#105 Posted : Thursday, June 02, 2011 1:07:28 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,534
Location: Windhoek/Nairobbery
invest0r wrote:
@the deal, you seem to be one person who is easily swayed by wind. Elaborate on this float that has swayed you this time round. Hope you are not trying to pump and dump this counter

Its no pump and dump..its real..i'm just busy with exams at the moment i will show you how...pump and dump has no ethics..i did it once i wil never do it again.smile
invest0r
#106 Posted : Thursday, June 02, 2011 3:27:49 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 12/15/2010
Posts: 162
@the deal, we'll patiently wait to hear what are your findings about Jubilee float. And FYI, when the firm makes underwriting losses, then it ceases in its function as an insurance firm to create good float

@guru267, your response to post 101 will be welcomed.
Gordon Gekko
#107 Posted : Thursday, June 02, 2011 3:35:42 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 5/27/2008
Posts: 3,760
Might the change of auditors have had anything to do with inflating claims Sad
guru267
#108 Posted : Thursday, June 02, 2011 4:06:35 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
invest0r wrote:
@the deal, we'll patiently wait to hear what are your findings about Jubilee float. And FYI, when the firm makes underwriting losses, then it ceases in its function as an insurance firm to create good float

@guru267, your response to post 101 will be welcomed.


@investor this is not a big deal... Go to jubilees website download their annuaal report.. Here you will find in detail on how they made an underwriting profit of half a billion.. You will also find the inflated pension claims that caused the loss you are talking about.

There is nothing new with what they are doing.. The NSE, CMA and the auditors all approved so whats the problem
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
invest0r
#109 Posted : Friday, June 03, 2011 9:08:47 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 12/15/2010
Posts: 162
@guru267, the auditors (PWC), NSE and CMA cannot do that willy nilly. PWC certified the books as true after they were satisfied that they presented the state of affairs of Jubilee. This books show an underwriting loss of KES 258,580,000. It is this books that were sent and accepted by NSE and CMA. Every informed person knows that some organisations tend to overstate their revenue and understate their expenses (and viceversa). If auditors find this when doing their audit, they usually insist on the books been amended to the true state and if this is not done, they give an adverse opinion. You and people like you with vested interest in Jubilee could have wanted the books to show an underwriting profit but the auditors had to present the true state that JUBILEE MADE AN UNDERWRITING LOSS
guru267
#110 Posted : Friday, June 03, 2011 9:34:28 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
invest0r wrote:
@guru267, the auditors (PWC), NSE and CMA cannot do that willy nilly. PWC certified the books as true after they were satisfied that they presented the state of affairs of Jubilee. This books show an underwriting loss of KES 258,580,000. It is this books that were sent and accepted by NSE and CMA. Every informed person knows that some organisations tend to overstate their revenue and understate their expenses. If auditors find this when doing their audit, they usually insist on the books been amended to the true state and if this is not done, they give an adverse opinion. You and people like you with vested interest in the Jubilee could have wanted the books show an underwriting profit but the auditors had to present the true state that JUBILEE MADE AN UNDERWRITING LOSS

@investor forgive me for thinking you were an accountant... He who bases their investing decisions solely on income statements is in for a fall...

Did you hear the awards the company was showered with:
1. General insurer of the year
2. Medical undewriter of the year
3. Claims settlement runners up
4. Customer service runers up
5. Number one pension plan...

Jubilee was one of the only insurance companies in the world to post profit growth during the height of the global recession... I think the NSE was down that year 30% and jub still grew their profits through isurance
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
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