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Can we get a President like Kagame..waahhhhh
story teller
#1 Posted : Thursday, April 21, 2011 7:53:31 PM
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Joined: 6/25/2010
Posts: 415
Rwanda is sure to be the Singapore of Africa by 2020

It's not hard to make decisions when you know what your values are.
KenyanLyrics
#2 Posted : Thursday, April 21, 2011 9:49:30 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 4/16/2010
Posts: 906
Location: Nairobi
I wish so too. I mentioned in the thread on Nigeria's elections that I don't prefer democracy for Kenya. Third world countries need benevolent dictatorship with a focus on economic growth
story teller
#3 Posted : Friday, April 22, 2011 5:53:03 AM
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Joined: 6/25/2010
Posts: 415
KenyanLyrics wrote:
I wish so too. I mentioned in the thread on Nigeria's elections that I don't prefer democracy for Kenya. Third world countries need benevolent dictatorship with a focus on economic growth


@KenyanLyrics, i agree with you. We need a benevolent dictator with the economy as the main priority. Singapore had one and Malaysia to some extent and look at where they are now.Do you know there was a time Kenya was at par with Singapore and S.Korea? Malaysia and Botswana were sending people to Kenya to pick our brains. We were the agricultural powerhouse of the world.. They came, they saw, they learnt and ran away with it. A few years ago, Singapore, which is the size of Nairobi had the highest per capita income in the entire world! Seriously, what happened to us? When did the rains start beating us?

We need a leader with zero tolerance for corruption who actually means it...this is our great undoing..it has become a way of life. What happened to the Michuki rules? It's like we move one step forward and ten steps backwards..a study released recently shows that we lose over one third of our resources to corruption every year! How do we allow this to happen and continue unchallenged? Kupayuka payuka will not change anything. Its always talk, more talk and never any action..very frustrating.

Who will stand up and say no to corruption, imputiny and actually mean it? We are robbing from our kids and future generations.

Seriously, no one is ever held responsible for anything...why ?
It's not hard to make decisions when you know what your values are.
Lolest!
#4 Posted : Friday, April 22, 2011 8:32:00 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
Our best leader should have been Moi. But he wasnt. Instead, him and his predecessor majored in raping the country. It is true that Rwanda and Singapore have limited rights even today. Singapore ranks low in media freedom and media is state owned. Try bring some of those things here and civil society will be on your case!
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
fantony
#5 Posted : Friday, April 22, 2011 1:43:38 PM
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Joined: 11/6/2006
Posts: 276
getting infatuated with rwanda is only natural when you first hear about where the country is coming from and the huge pronouncements about its future..

just try to carry out an enterprise there then you actually get to learn that they have their issues too... and their issues are not small...

and your brief infatuation may go several ways... mine included a very short happy phase when all was ok then a phase II in which i felt i was getting conned every day..

in kenya... we get conned by politicians, kanju and cops.. avoid them and you are ok..

in rwanda everyone is a potential con..
KenyanLyrics
#6 Posted : Friday, April 22, 2011 3:53:25 PM
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Joined: 4/16/2010
Posts: 906
Location: Nairobi
Fantony, expound
wiser
#7 Posted : Friday, April 22, 2011 6:13:21 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 4/22/2011
Posts: 5
In our case i think democracy can turn to democrazy. As said benevolent dictatorship with a focus on economic growth is enough.
The main thing is making the main thing the main thing.
Snazzy
#8 Posted : Saturday, April 23, 2011 10:05:54 AM
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Joined: 3/1/2011
Posts: 48
I had these sam thoughts a fey days back,what if we had Kagane for president?

Maybe he would last but as usual civil society groups would be up in arms.Waht i think we do need is a man who has no ties with the political elites in Kenya.These people have vested interests in a lot of companies in Kenya.

Such a man or woman would have the moral authority to take a firm stand on corruption and fight it without the fear of burning his fingers.We need someone who for lack of a better will whip us back into shape.
“You can safely assume you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.”

― Anne Lamott
fantony
#9 Posted : Saturday, April 23, 2011 12:50:18 PM
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Joined: 11/6/2006
Posts: 276
i know an architect working in rwanda.. he designed a hotel against the promise of a payment.. the hotel is now fully constructed and open for a year.. the poor bloke is yet to get a cent.. this is not the only story..

there is another mzungu who went to transact over there... when he fell out with his contacts (who is known to top officials).. he was told he was going to be in jail for the rest of his life if he ever sets foot there again...

there is a hotel called lemigo that recently opened.. due to short staffing on critical areas.. the manager sought experienced people from kenya to help him run the 100 room hotel.. some people quit jobs and emigrated with their families... 1 month later they were terminated and inexperienced rwandese took over their posts.. now to get a soda at lemigo takes 15 minutes..

most kenyans get lured over there with promises of double or triple pay.. by the third month... you are called in for a talk.. you know things are not going as expected... we need you to take lower pay..

i think that covers issues about getting conned...

KenyanLyrics
#10 Posted : Saturday, April 23, 2011 2:44:11 PM
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Joined: 4/16/2010
Posts: 906
Location: Nairobi
@Fantony Kagame probably looks at all those factors and asks... "Is the economy growing?" If the answer is yes, then kazi iendelee.
Gordon Gekko
#11 Posted : Saturday, April 23, 2011 4:23:40 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 5/27/2008
Posts: 3,760
Had a contract there about 9 years ago. Got paid 50% upfront, most of that went towards 'facilitation', when the job was nearly completed, the contract was cancelled and I have not been paid the balance to date. Besides that personal experience, it is a beautiful country. BTW the MD of the firm concerned was a very close associate of the oreso.
story teller
#12 Posted : Saturday, April 23, 2011 5:30:44 PM
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Joined: 6/25/2010
Posts: 415
@Gordon Gekko and @fantony,you both raise valid points...poleni sana for your bad experiences. So do you think Rwanda is trying to create a perception for future investors that is totally different from the reality on the ground?

Since French is the official language (i stand to be corrected), how do you interact with the locals/govt officials..translators or is swahili widely spoken?

On the other hand, do you think that these are some of the hiccups that Rwanda and other economies will have to go through as they pursue this transformation?
It's not hard to make decisions when you know what your values are.
Gordon Gekko
#13 Posted : Saturday, April 23, 2011 6:30:11 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 5/27/2008
Posts: 3,760
@story teller, got along pretty well with Swahili and English, most of the working class I dealt with were returnees from Congo, Uganda, Kenya, Belgium and France. A few were from Tanzania. The big challenge was at the hotel where most of the workers were 'pure' locals.
fantony
#14 Posted : Saturday, April 23, 2011 6:49:42 PM
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Joined: 11/6/2006
Posts: 276
@kenyanlyrics - is the economy growing despite this factors.. yes. the unsavoury truth though is majority of the skilled personnel were either killed or left the country in between 1973 and 1994.. they realised their skills are valuable elsewhere... rwanda has about 2 million people in diaspora... its local popn is 10 million...

there is abit of FDI going into rwanda.. question is whether areas it is invested in can sustain themselves...??

there is a certain level of discipline in rwanda.. the streets are the cleanest in africa.. the security in the capital outstanding.. the only place expatriates jog after dark..

this has taken corruption underground.. say if arrested on a traffic offence.. you will loose a whole hour before you realise you can get away with a bribe.. in kenya.. its a bribe PAP! and you go back to your economic activities..

@ story teller french was a language perpetuated by the belgian colonisers post 1918... kagame however has introduced english as a language of business to align Rwanda to the EAC and the commonwealth..

most rwandese however speak to each other in kinyarwanda.. swahili is rarely spoken.. a good portion of government officials and businessman know either of english or swahili depending on where they spent their exile years..

english for those who spent exile years ('59-'73-'94)in kenya and uganda.. swahili for those who spent time in tanzania..

most of the upperclass have sent their kids to USIU and other kenyan colleges e.g. baraton.. there is a small number of belgian, france and american trained technocrats... they some times are a tad bit shady... kinda similar to kenya under moi...

i have tried to think, even sought the opinion of others... even if i earn money there i will keep it in kenya.. we burn our country every 5 years with minimal damage... with these guys you can't tell when something will happen

KenyanLyrics
#15 Posted : Saturday, April 23, 2011 7:23:26 PM
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Joined: 4/16/2010
Posts: 906
Location: Nairobi
@Fantony preventing over-expatriation of money is part of economic growth
fantony
#16 Posted : Saturday, April 23, 2011 8:21:09 PM
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Joined: 11/6/2006
Posts: 276
you will need expats in the growth phase of a country.. what you need to ensure is they get understudies to train and learn under them to facilitate technology transfer...

by the way every kenyan i know can serve coffee.. i just can't get why it takes a rwandan 3 times the normal time to deliver the same cup..
Burning Spear
#17 Posted : Saturday, April 23, 2011 8:36:13 PM
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Joined: 7/22/2008
Posts: 1,139

Kenya needs a dictator with more focus to economic development n less talk but am sorry this cannot be achieved becoz of the mushrooming NGO's and right? activists who have their paymasters in the west.No president can govern with the kind of selfish activists we have in Kenya, to make it worse, the new fake constitution (according to me) has given the activists more than required recognition.
"You're not supposed to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who says it". Malcolm X
sanity
#18 Posted : Saturday, April 23, 2011 8:49:19 PM
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Joined: 1/24/2011
Posts: 407
Location: Nairobi,Kenya
Kenya is way ahead of Rwanda.Kenyans are innovative and hardworking.our major problem apart from poor leaders is that majority of us have been siezed by the 'get rich quick no matter how' mentality. Just look at how matatus operate and you will understand the average kenyan.we are also like the bibilical jews.we are always on the lookout for a messiah to save us.problem is like the jews we are looking out for the one who shouts the loudest,has charisma and style and is a militant .....like Kagame.as a result we end up ignoring the still small voice,that says I am the way,the truth and the life.follow me and you shall not perish
Hope is not a strategy
fantony
#19 Posted : Saturday, April 23, 2011 10:32:36 PM
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Joined: 11/6/2006
Posts: 276
kenyans are not innovative one guy opens a stall and everyone replicates the same stall across the city.. selling the same product and for the same price.. no product differentiation...

explain why all universities have a cbd campus.. duplication instead of trying to impact the area they are meant to impact their strength in..

explain all those people trying to get MBAs just to try to match with the Joneses..

our leaders are what we deserve.. dishonest crop of guys who think the fastest way to riches is manipulating the system of improving it... i just compare every guy that want to partake in politics to the girls who sleep their way up corporate ladder..

a dictator? now what b.s. is that...

benevolent dictator... even bigger crap... democracy has only failed in the third world.. becuase of the interest of developed nations on our resources..

for 100 days the world ignored as 1,000,000 people got killed in rwanda because they did not think there was anything they wanted or will need...

10 seconds later they have realised kagame gives stability to the volatile central african region and they are now smooth up with him so that they can have access to minerals in the DRC...

there must be a model of leadership we can adopt that benefits all..

one key thing we should have noticed is winner takes all as a principle in democracy as represented in the quote... democracy is where 51% of the voters take away the rights of the other 49%...

i think government should represent 100% of the entire population so that a certain segment does get left out or is threatened with the loss of its rights a la kenya under moi...

the coalition government is more like it... despite its noise... which communities in the last 5 years feel left out?
kyt
#20 Posted : Sunday, April 24, 2011 1:30:40 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/7/2007
Posts: 2,182
Fantony, thats on point
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