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House-helps and HIV
KenyanLyrics
#41 Posted : Thursday, April 21, 2011 3:59:47 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 4/16/2010
Posts: 906
Location: Nairobi
Spend.thrift wrote:
... Or the nail cutter......


and now we have transmission via nailcutter. People, surely...
MaichBlack
#42 Posted : Thursday, April 21, 2011 4:12:28 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/22/2009
Posts: 7,452
So many hypocrites in wazua!!!

How many of us would employ a houseboy with daughters in the house? Many of us wouldn't! Isn't that a form of discimination? Who told you the houseboy would molest your kids? As a parent you think about your kids 110%. Even 5% risk is too high when your kids are involved.

Kids change people. Even the way you drive changes when your kids are on board. You don't even have to think about it. It comes naturally. You will never know the feeling until you have a kid of your own.

@Kenyalyrics - I have a daughter. I love her to bits. You try to compromise her well being and see how many laws I'll break. When you get your own, I'm sure you'll do the same. But then again there is a huge difference between a dad and a father! Tafakari hayo.

Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
Jacy26
#43 Posted : Thursday, April 21, 2011 4:14:32 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 6/26/2008
Posts: 365
BTW I have a friend who works at a VCT clinic and she tells us that most of their clients are house helps who usually tell her that they would not under any circumstance disclose their HIV status to their employers. Most of these househelps work in affluent homes.
If you have only one smile in you, give it to the people you love - Maya Angelou
jguru
#44 Posted : Thursday, April 21, 2011 4:19:22 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 10/25/2007
Posts: 1,574
KenyanLyrics wrote:
you are hiding behind the argument that none of us are parents, when that is not the primary issue here. Regardless of whether you are a parent or not, the facts about HIV transmission are very clear, and have been drummed away so repetitively in the recent past that all Wazuans can recite the transmission methods by heart. However, despite the clear presence of these facts, you have decided to abandon logic and terminate somebody's employment based on a flimsy 'what if' argument.

One of my guiding principles in life is to do unto others as you would like them to do to you. The best way of analysing this situation is to reverse it. If you were the one who was a houseboy on ARVs, would you deem it fair if your employer were to fire you based on your HIV status?


@KenyanLyrics: The househelp does not necessary have to infect the child with HIV through sexual intercourse or exchange of body/blood products. A TB infection to a 2 year old is a grave matter. Either the TB infection itself, or the 6 months regimen of anti-TBs might kill the child. A herpes zoster infection will stay with the child for life, and will leave nasty scars to show for it. The househelp prepares the family's food. The parents might be able to fight a diarrhoeal disease, the children will succumb to vomiting and diarrhoea.

@otieno: Considering you have no access to her clinical records (they remain strictly confidential), it is up to you as a parent, to decide whether to keep the househelp or not, since you cannot assess her health state yourself.
Set out to correct the world's wrongs and you will most certainly wind up adding to them.
bwenyenye
#45 Posted : Thursday, April 21, 2011 4:32:56 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 5/24/2007
Posts: 1,805
KenyanLyrics wrote:
you are hiding behind the argument that none of us are parents, when that is not the primary issue here.


Boss, That is the issue here. When you become a parent, your priorories change. The law can go hang!!! literaly. Your kid comes first then all that nonsense of ' the fellings of the HIV househelp/ unties, sister comes in a distant last!
I have no regrets on this statement! I will shield my kids at all costs; even Jail term. Ni sawa tu.
I Think Therefore I Am
MaichBlack
#46 Posted : Thursday, April 21, 2011 4:45:37 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/22/2009
Posts: 7,452
bwenyenye wrote:
KenyanLyrics wrote:
you are hiding behind the argument that none of us are parents, when that is not the primary issue here.


Boss, That is the issue here. When you become a parent, your priorories change. The law can go hang!!! literaly. Your kid comes first then all that nonsense of ' the fellings of the HIV househelp/ unties, sister comes in a distant last!
I have no regrets on this statement! I will shield my kids at all costs; even Jail term. Ni sawa tu.

Applause Applause Applause Applause Applause

Spoken like a true parent.

Reminds me of a father somewhere in Ruiru who stood up to AK47 wielding thugs who had tried to rape his daughter infront of the whole family after breaking into their house. He told them they had to literally kill him to get to his daughter!

Some fellows here don't know what it means to be a parent! But I don't blame them. I really don't. Some of these things have to be experienced to be understood. And it is not anyone's fault that they haven't experienced them yet. Time will come.

Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
willin2learn
#47 Posted : Thursday, April 21, 2011 4:46:36 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 2/12/2008
Posts: 1,178
Well. Let me just say when it comes to the welfare of my child, the Housegirls/watchman/gardener's needs for shelter, food, water bla bla bla do not even rank second!

With kids even imagined eventualities takes a real dimension. straightline thinking!

KenyanLyrics
#48 Posted : Thursday, April 21, 2011 5:02:49 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 4/16/2010
Posts: 906
Location: Nairobi
bwenyenye wrote:
KenyanLyrics wrote:
you are hiding behind the argument that none of us are parents, when that is not the primary issue here.


Boss, That is the issue here. When you become a parent, your priorories change. The law can go hang!!! literaly. Your kid comes first then all that nonsense of ' the fellings of the HIV househelp/ unties, sister comes in a distant last!
I have no regrets on this statement! I will shield my kids at all costs; even Jail term. Ni sawa tu.

But there is no protection needed in this case. The issue here is ignorance

If you know your facts about HIV, you will know that the chances of transmission in this scenario are close to zero, so what are you protecting them from? The 0.5% chance? This is where paranoia and stupidity comes into play. Did you also know that there is a small chance of your kid drowning in the toilet? How about you get rid of the toilets in the house?

Chances are, you spend so much time worrying about nonsense like HIV transmission via nailcutter, firing the house help for no good reason, yet there are REAL health risks, like obesity, that are probably being ignored.
MaichBlack
#49 Posted : Thursday, April 21, 2011 5:11:40 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/22/2009
Posts: 7,452
KenyanLyrics wrote:
bwenyenye wrote:
KenyanLyrics wrote:
you are hiding behind the argument that none of us are parents, when that is not the primary issue here.


Boss, That is the issue here. When you become a parent, your priorories change. The law can go hang!!! literaly. Your kid comes first then all that nonsense of ' the fellings of the HIV househelp/ unties, sister comes in a distant last!
I have no regrets on this statement! I will shield my kids at all costs; even Jail term. Ni sawa tu.

But there is no protection needed in this case. The issue here is ignorance

If you know your facts about HIV, you will know that the chances of transmission in this scenario are close to zero, so what are you protecting them from? The 0.5% chance? This is where paranoia and stupidity comes into play. Did you also know that there is a small chance of your kid drowning in the toilet? How about you get rid of the toilets in the house?

Chances are, you spend so much time worrying about nonsense like HIV transmission via nailcutter, firing the house help for no good reason, yet there are REAL health risks, like obesity, that are probably being ignored.

@KenyaLyrics - I will not call you names but a few come to mind!

How many cases have you heard of house helps doing crazy stuff to get back at the parents for real or imagined issues? Have you been reading what people have been posting? Opportunistic infections and their effects to a toddler? Did you go through the links I posted? Are you arguing to win or are you considering everyone's contribution? Anywho...
Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
bwenyenye
#50 Posted : Thursday, April 21, 2011 5:34:18 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 5/24/2007
Posts: 1,805
@Kenya lyrics,

I pray to the almighty God to bless you with a child. That is all I have for you. When you are there, let us talk. Have happy easter!!!
I Think Therefore I Am
KenyanLyrics
#51 Posted : Thursday, April 21, 2011 5:35:27 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 4/16/2010
Posts: 906
Location: Nairobi
@MaichBlack, yes, I am considering the contributions of @otienosmall, who 'accidentally' tumbled into the househelps handbag. I am considering the contributions of @sihingwa who believes in HIV transmission via fruit salad. I am considering the contributions of @spendthrift, who believes in HIV transmission via nailcutter. I am considering the contributions of you yourself, who believes that priority should be given to guarding children against the 0.5% chance of being infected by a crazed maniac. I have considered all your contributions. I am not just arguing to win.
MaichBlack
#52 Posted : Thursday, April 21, 2011 5:39:01 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/22/2009
Posts: 7,452
@Kenyalyrics - Have a nice easter. Ni hiyo tu.
Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
Forester
#53 Posted : Thursday, April 21, 2011 5:52:14 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 12/7/2010
Posts: 520
Location: Epicentre - Ngamia 1
I once heard of an incident where a househelp who was making the family dinner,laced it with rat poison to get back at the folks sijui for what reason.Having served the meal on the dinner table,the househelp retreated to the kitchen as is the norm.One kid decide to throw a piece of meat to the cat only for it to drop dead in minutes before the family consumed the meal - Mungu anawapenda!On going to the kitchen, the househelp was long gone thru the back door of course.This whole issue of househelps nawachia Mungu cuz such incidents are very distrubing.Sad
Build your own dreams, or someone else will hire you to build theirs - Farrah Gray.
Inuendo
#54 Posted : Thursday, April 21, 2011 6:34:26 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 4/13/2011
Posts: 151
So much has been said in support of Otienosmall's actions and i also feel i would have done exactly the same way.
@ Kenyan lyrics its easier to call upon provisions of the law and justify your position. But for parents there is really no choice here. That 0.5% you talk about is not paranoia as you may like to put it.Imagine your toddler self; helpless, innocent, very active and devoid of any knowledge of the dangers of this world. When my 11month child cries at night i actually feel his pain. For us parents to knowingly take the risk (0.5%) because the law says its discrimination, let it be! Have a Blessed Easter!
Common sense is the most evenly distributed quantity in the world. Everyone thinks he has enough.
Elder
#55 Posted : Thursday, April 21, 2011 7:05:10 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/7/2010
Posts: 2,148
Location: elderville
Gordon Gekko wrote:
sihingwa wrote:
@ Famooz, dont think of it as discrimination.

Case 1; you have your 2 year old toddler who likes using the house helps tooth brush

Case 2; your 3 year old uses the same tooth pick the house help uses

Case 3; the house help has just served you with fruit salad (in which blood from a knife cut oozed into)

case 4; your house help has just played a 'cha baba na cha mama' game with your 13 year old son (these things happen a lot!)

The list is endless


Case 1: Yet to see a toddler brush its teeth.
Case 2: I think a toddler picking milk teeth is amazing.
Case 3: Once blood is exposed, the HIV in it dies, unless it immediately drops onto an exposed wound. BTW this reason negates Cases 1 and 2.
Case 4: Maybe.

You should be glad she knows her status and is on ARV. She MUST have been taken through counseling on positive living and how not to spread or have a recurrence, so Case 4 becomes a remote probability.


Should be classified as one of those myths. Not factually true. It takes about 20 minutes for the virus to die if still in the blood after exposure to air. They do begin to die immediately on exposure but need about the 20 minutes to die. So says doctor internet.

Samuel Conway, Senior Staff Chemist, Avid Therapeutics,Philadelphia, PA wrote:


The lifespan of the virus is about 20 minutes, maximum, in a drop of
blood that lands on a surface outside the body. Once that droplet dries,
the virus is dead. No worries there. The chances of you putting the
cut portion of your finger on a blood-smear that is fresh enough to contain a sufficient amount of live virus to cause infection is infinitely small.

20 minutes also holds for body fluids on a toilet seat; this is from an
actual experiment. In order to catch it, you would have to bring *broken*
skin into contact with the fluid.
The virus doesn't get sucked through
membranes just like that. It needs to have some way into the blood stream.


He who can express in words the ardour of his love, has but little love to express. - Petrach, Son. (That men by various ways arrive at the same end. - Montaigne, The Essays of.)
jguru
#56 Posted : Thursday, April 21, 2011 8:18:05 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 10/25/2007
Posts: 1,574
Elder wrote:

Should be classified as one of those myths. Not factually true. It takes about 20 minutes for the virus to die if still in the blood after exposure to air. They do begin to die immediately on exposure but need about the 20 minutes to die. So says doctor internet.

Samuel Conway, Senior Staff Chemist, Avid Therapeutics,Philadelphia, PA wrote:


The lifespan of the virus is about 20 minutes, maximum, in a drop of
blood that lands on a surface outside the body. Once that droplet dries,
the virus is dead. No worries there. The chances of you putting the
cut portion of your finger on a blood-smear that is fresh enough to contain a sufficient amount of live virus to cause infection is infinitely small.

20 minutes also holds for body fluids on a toilet seat; this is from an
actual experiment. In order to catch it, you would have to bring *broken*
skin into contact with the fluid.
The virus doesn't get sucked through
membranes just like that. It needs to have some way into the blood stream.



That response that HIV lives outside the body for 20 minutes is not correct. HIV can be found in a blood soaked handkerchief-crusted blood even after 2 days if kept in ambient conditions. Now whether anyone can be easily infected by contact with the same is another matter altogether.

A long time back, persons with haemophilia (a clotting disorder) used to be given the missing protein component in their blood, factor 8, from extracts from other people's blood. Extracts were taken from several thousand blood donors (some infected with HIV), and were freeze-dried and stored, and then made up into a liquid again (with sterile water) for injection. Freezing or drying failed to kill the AIDS virus. Today the Factor 8 is now heat-treated for safety.

Extensive research has shown that most virus particles do become damaged after a few hours outside the body. A few may survive after 3 to 7 days in dry dust, and over two weeks in water. Although, NO person is known to have contracted AIDS from touching dried blood, my advice would be to avoid contact with both fresh and dried blood.

-Journal of the American Medical Association, 1986; Journal of Medical Virology, 1991; Patrick Dixon, The Truth about AIDS, 2004
Set out to correct the world's wrongs and you will most certainly wind up adding to them.
KenyanLyrics
#57 Posted : Thursday, April 21, 2011 9:40:01 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 4/16/2010
Posts: 906
Location: Nairobi
Inuendo wrote:

@ Kenyan lyrics its easier to call upon provisions of the law and justify your position.

I have not called upon the law even once. My argument is not based on the law. In fact I don't even know what the law states in relation to this topic. Soma thread tena.
Inuendo
#58 Posted : Thursday, April 21, 2011 9:57:15 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 4/13/2011
Posts: 151
@ KenyanLyrics, my bad...... must have been someone else!Anxious
Common sense is the most evenly distributed quantity in the world. Everyone thinks he has enough.
otienosmall
#59 Posted : Friday, April 22, 2011 3:03:20 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 10/8/2010
Posts: 281
KenyanLyrics wrote:
bwenyenye wrote:
KenyanLyrics wrote:
you are hiding behind the argument that none of us are parents, when that is not the primary issue here.


Boss, That is the issue here. When you become a parent, your priorories change. The law can go hang!!! literaly. Your kid comes first then all that nonsense of ' the fellings of the HIV househelp/ unties, sister comes in a distant last!
I have no regrets on this statement! I will shield my kids at all costs; even Jail term. Ni sawa tu.

But there is no protection needed in this case. The issue here is ignorance

If you know your facts about HIV, you will know that the chances of transmission in this scenario are close to zero, so what are you protecting them from? The 0.5% chance? This is where paranoia and stupidity comes into play. Did you also know that there is a small chance of your kid drowning in the toilet? How about you get rid of the toilets in the house?

Chances are, you spend so much time worrying about nonsense like HIV transmission via nailcutter, firing the house help for no good reason, yet there are REAL health risks, like obesity, that are probably being ignored.



@KenyanLyrics…..I am just curious! do you know your status????
KenyanLyrics
#60 Posted : Friday, April 22, 2011 3:29:42 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 4/16/2010
Posts: 906
Location: Nairobi
yup. In fact I abstained for 3 months so the test results would be final
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