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Raila: PEV was Planned & Systematic
Rank: Elder Joined: 10/13/2009 Posts: 1,950 Location: in kenya
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Mind you, I didnt say Raila is not a flip flopper I just agreed with his argument that PEV was in R.V preplanned and if anybody has anything or any evidence he was involved in planning those killings he is ready to face the courts. Yes we might reason he is now saying that because he fell out with R.V MPs but he has a right to put the record straight. '......to the acknowledgment of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ; 3 In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.' Colossians 2:2-3
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Rank: Member Joined: 9/2/2010 Posts: 845
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@Selah - You could be missing the point here. The point is that not a long time ago, the PM wanted some young men released from Nakuru jails because they were "only fighting for their democratic rights". He also believed that the Kiambaa church victims were attackers who were only getting what they deserved. http://www.youtube.com/w...mHmU&feature=relmfu
What has necessitated the about turn now? But @McReggae may have accidentally summarized it... McReggae wrote:....there are elements of politics and elements of truth in every situation, then at the height of power struggle with ML, it was all systems go for political reasons!!!! selah wrote:I think his arguments are valid.when he called for mass action he was not aware of an ethnic cleansing plan hatched by his R.V colleagues.
He was used by them to mete their revenge on innocent pple.if you look at where the mass action was predominant those killed were mainly shot by the police but in Rift valley that thing was well planned just as the retaliatory attacks in naivasha limuru and nakuru were. All my friends are heathens, take it slow. Wait for them to ask you who you know. Please don't make any sudden moves.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/13/2009 Posts: 1,950 Location: in kenya
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What Raila said should not be taken out of context.He said killing 1300 pple require planning and somebody should be held accountable.WHATS WRONG WITH THAT STATEMENT. '......to the acknowledgment of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ; 3 In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.' Colossians 2:2-3
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2008 Posts: 4,449
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RAILA NOW : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4zDAbloZUY vs RAILA THEN http://www.youtube.com/w...mHmU&feature=relmfu
Try listen not just defend for defends sake. In the latter hardtalk: Martha Karua clearly said: "It was systematic.." Raila Odinga STATES AS A MATTER OF FACT: "Nothing could be further from the truth" Now Raila agrees with Martha Karua?! The truth was farthest from his lie or misinformation. I'm sorry to inform you, this man plainly just engages in lies or misinformation to get to power regardless of the huge negative implications it has for investors in this country.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/7/2007 Posts: 11,935 Location: Nairobi
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@Selah, Maybe someone is trying to prempt the repurcussions ODM minutes of Jan and Feb 08 which Ruto handed to LMO and where Kiambaa church attack organising might have been made???? plus a sworn affidavit by Ruto which he handed to LMO during his recent visit??....oh well!!....Not that i like any of this politicians but to be very honest,RAO is just being "clever".. Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm.
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Rank: Member Joined: 4/27/2010 Posts: 262
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So whats the truth of the matter? Isn't use of militias,mungiki or better yet administration police planned and systematic.The PEV had victims from both sides of the divide.Politicians have and will always change their dance to suit the music playing.I believe there were spontaneous pockets of violence but most of it was planned and systematic! Apparently there is nothing that cannot happen today!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2008 Posts: 4,449
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hoodrat wrote:So whats the truth of the matter? Isn't use of militias,mungiki or better yet administration police planned and systematic.The PEV had victims from both sides of the divide.Politicians have and will always change their dance to suit the music playing.I believe there were spontaneous pockets of violence but most of it was planned and systematic! True. However you wonder why one of the principals was so quick to deny, deny, deny whilst as the BBC journalist reaction indicates, the info from R.V. was alluding to the obvious. Karua: "There is nothing spontaneous about attacking members of one community" BBC: "Powerful point she is making" Only the guilty are afraid...
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Rank: Member Joined: 9/2/2010 Posts: 845
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@Selah - Wacha nijitolee mhanga kukusaidia kidogo  STATEMENT - Truth STATEMENT-MAKER - Inconsistent In other words, the facts have not changed - it is the PM that has moved from propagating fiction to presenting fact. Why? We have just heard it was all systems go for political reasons. Hiyo tu. selah wrote:What Raila said should not be taken out of context.He said killing 1300 pple require planning and somebody should be held accountable.WHATS WRONG WITH THAT STATEMENT.
All my friends are heathens, take it slow. Wait for them to ask you who you know. Please don't make any sudden moves.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/18/2008 Posts: 3,434 Location: Kerugoya
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"it is good he was castrated otherwise, he would have sired very many liers which would be very badn for the country."I take great exception to the words hereinabove and plead with Wazua Administrator to kindly delete the same. Let me point out, however, that I do not hold brief for the Right Honourable Prime Minister.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 12/4/2009 Posts: 1,982 Location: matano manne
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@inNai na @Sela najitolea kuwasaidia pia: Very simple: 1. In a political situation RAO PEV was spontaneous very correct politically. This is more so in as far as the coalition + post coalition politics were concerned. 2. In a legal situation: RAO PEV was planned and orchestrated by known persons who should be held accountable. This is also very correct and factual in as far as the situation on the ground demands- LMO and ICC. This however should not be interpreted to mean that RAO does not have his own weaknesses especially in as far as his own mouth is concerned. Look at it the other way, if it were RAO being charged over PEV, and WR is left out of it, the noise would be coming from the other side. To say that he is the only one out for power is to miss the point. The PNU/KKK alliances are determined in equal measure to ensure that Tinga does not capture the prize. As for Kaloozer, I pity him I've always deemed him weak but Reneberger couldn't have put it better: intellectual lightweight! 
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 5/13/2010 Posts: 869 Location: Nairobi
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As a normal Kenyan, i knew there was 'tension'. I want to believe politicians knew the full extent of the problem. What i found very careless of them were the calls, initially from RAO & ODM to go to the streets and 'protest' the results. Even days after people had been killed, they still said so! I was almost caught up in the melee of protesters who has spilled over to Ngong Rd due to these calls, by RAO & ODM to 'protest'. Now going to PNU, the 'revenge' attacks as i saw them as a normal Kenyan were totally wrong. YOu do not right a wrong by a wrong. These too made some fairly peaceful towns also arise with hatred and/or violence. I know for example that some Luo & Kalenjin people i know living in a village in Nyahururu were not in any real danger until the Naivasha revenge attacks happened. And their fear coupled with the people's anger brought the house down! Wazuan's i MUST appeal to you to be above board. Yes, discuss politics but do not allow your love for a candidate blind you to the real values you hold. Those of Peace, Unity and Love for all mankind. Ok, i agree MO1 had at least the concept right  . It begins with you! I have personally decided that any candidate who hints at violence in 2012 will automatically be excluded from my vote. If today, my brother decides to run for president but begun speaking violence or doesn't have his priorities right, i will move to the next best candidate. That is my vow as a Mkenya halisi. ....above all, to stand.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2008 Posts: 4,449
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ecstacy wrote:simonkabz wrote:@ecst, guys disparage kaluza whereas I find raira no better. Thats why I find anti kaluza remarks in bad taste n utterly dishonest. To me, SKM makes smalltime stupid harmless lies of low interllectual magnitude. RAO is a clever dangerous mega liar to a point of causing a near-genocide (pitting the entire country against kyuks then pointing fingers) for his own political mileage. This guy wouldnt give a shiet if the country goes to the dogs so long as his own pple r ok, n so long as he isnt in pwr. Its obvious who is worse. Again, my observations. Yerp, the less said about Kalooser the better. Empty Recycle bin. As for RAO the only thing consistent as history is playing out is a man with a desire to grab power at all costs. The statements and actions seem geared to this. Hopefully the cultic following will wise up. With the new constitution, what's good for Kenya is good for them. @Rahatupu, who are you helping? Running for Presidency which carries Executive Power is not a crime. Read the following statement also underlined above to get the whole point - "a desire to grab power at all costs." This even if it means misrepresenting facts as people are burnt alive in a church. Your 'political' & 'legal' explanation is wanting in fact I'll not even discuss it. The Hague Six are being charged criminally. That is all we care about. The law.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/19/2010 Posts: 3,504 Location: Uganda
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Pure passions/hatred.Confess and go back to work people!!!! Peace love and unity , Ms Kenya niko nawewe punda amecheka
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2008 Posts: 4,449
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innairobi wrote:@Selah - Wacha nijitolee mhanga kukusaidia kidogo STATEMENT - Truth STATEMENT-MAKER - Inconsistent In other words, the facts have not changed - it is the PM that has moved from propagating fiction to presenting fact. Why? We have just heard it was all systems go for political reasons. Hiyo tu. selah wrote:What Raila said should not be taken out of context.He said killing 1300 pple require planning and somebody should be held accountable.WHATS WRONG WITH THAT STATEMENT.
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 1/28/2011 Posts: 9
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We all know that RAO is a populist and he will say anything to be seen as if he cares for the mwananchi, on PEV its clear to everyone that the attacks were planned and not spontaneous, The biggest blame should be on the police because they did too little to contain the situation even after having enough intelligence, the law is very clear that a policeman is allowed to use excessive force in > protecting lives > protecting property and when his life is in danger and after all those deaths and destruction they did not use enough force to contain the situation so they failed miserably in their jobs, they should be made accountable...
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/23/2008 Posts: 3,017
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When history is written, it will simply look to apportion blame to the one man who bears the most responsibility for the PEV. And thats the man who had all the power at that time; president kibaki, as president, he swore an oath to respect the constitution and protect Kenyans and did nothing during this dark period in our country's past. It was his cowardly action of being sworn in, in the middle of the night that sparked the protests either spontaneously or signalled the start of the planned attacks. Secondly, he ignored all warnings from the intelligence agencies about the impending attacks Thirdly, he failed to take action to stem the planned violence and instead opted to send rogue security agents to shoot people in Kisumu and Nairobi. When things became real bad, his inaction forced Kenyans to take desperate measures like revenge attacks on other innocent Kenyan's. And finally, four years after the deeds, he has been unable to arrest, charge and prosecute a single soul with responsibility for the violence. This has opened the door for the ICC to re-colonize our country. Guy's we all turn to our favourite punching bags when frustrated or just for the fun of it, but deep down we all know who dropped the ball. I am sure muthaura knows very well the source of his problems, and it is not from a lake, his eyes are cast up towards a certain mountain. "The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/7/2007 Posts: 11,935 Location: Nairobi
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@Obi, That's okay Obi but you have not said what Baks organised.... anyway,go ahead and tell as whether someone is afraid that ODM minutes where organising/planning of attacks will be public stuff in a couple of weeks and he/she is trying to do damage control!!...oh boy! Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm.
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Rank: Member Joined: 9/2/2010 Posts: 845
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@Obi - You raise some very valid points. In my view, Kibaki will be judged harshly for his inaction, naivete (economics vs politics), lack of foresight (not acting on intelligence) and failure to protect the lives of citizens from death and destruction. Raila will be judged harshly for defending ethnic cleansing and the killing of defenseless women and children as long as it could get him to the house on the hill (It is what @McReggae bluntly calls "all systems go for political reasons"). As is now emerging, time eventually separates truth from propaganda. All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. Arthur Schopenhauer - German philosopher (1788 - 1860) Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:When history is written, it will simply look to apportion blame to the one man who bears the most responsibility for the PEV. And thats the man who had all the power at that time; president kibaki, as president, he swore an oath to respect the constitution and protect Kenyans and did nothing during this dark period in our country's past.
It was his cowardly action of being sworn in, in the middle of the night that sparked the protests either spontaneously or signalled the start of the planned attacks.
Secondly, he ignored all warnings from the intelligence agencies about the impending attacks
Thirdly, he failed to take action to stem the planned violence and instead opted to send rogue security agents to shoot people in Kisumu and Nairobi.
When things became real bad, his inaction forced Kenyans to take desperate measures like revenge attacks on other innocent Kenyan's.
And finally, four years after the deeds, he has been unable to arrest, charge and prosecute a single soul with responsibility for the violence. This has opened the door for the ICC to re-colonize our country.
Guy's we all turn to our favourite punching bags when frustrated or just for the fun of it, but deep down we all know who dropped the ball. I am sure muthaura knows very well the source of his problems, and it is not from a lake, his eyes are cast up towards a certain mountain. All my friends are heathens, take it slow. Wait for them to ask you who you know. Please don't make any sudden moves.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/23/2008 Posts: 3,017
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Njung'e wrote:@Obi,
That's okay Obi but you have not said what Baks organised.... anyway,go ahead and tell as whether someone is afraid that ODM minutes where organising/planning of attacks will be public stuff in a couple of weeks and he/she is trying to do damage control!!...oh boy! @Njung'e I am sure very many people in Kenya are responsible, including the many anonymous handymen who were hired to burn, rape and steal and they all need to be held accountable. However, my position is that MK bears the biggest blame, in fact even now he is still busy authourising the spending our money to subvert the hague process yet he knows very well that we do not have a credible justice system to try anyone. "The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
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Raila: PEV was Planned & Systematic
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