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Martha Karua 4 President.
mukiha
#21 Posted : Tuesday, March 29, 2011 8:32:41 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
hoodrat wrote:
Totally agree Martha has what it takes.But from a gender perspective don't know if Kenya is ready for a woman president.How many African countries have elected women presidents?Only one comes to mind!

Why wouldn't Kenya be ready for a woman president? Is there something that women presidents do that Kenya is not ready for?

This statement really irks me: it is a cover-up for sexist, male chauvinist opinions!

Some one wants to say "I wouldn't vote for a woman president" but feels scared, so the say "Kenya is not ready for a woman president"

BTW: I would vote for Martha, even if she ran against Mutava. I think he still needs to prove whether he is made of steel or wool!
Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
mukiha
#22 Posted : Tuesday, March 29, 2011 8:36:07 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
callaspade wrote:
.....i thought we passed the new constitution so that it does not matter much who becomes the next president.
.....We should be focusing on strengthening the institutions not screaming hoarse over which individual is better than the other.
......it should not matter who becomes the president since there are now checks and balances to ensure equity,good governance and respect of rule of law,period.
.....whoever becomes president does NOT and will never affect my breakfast or sleep.Thats how it should be.

Institutions are only as strong as the leadership they have!

Institutions cannot stand alone; they need to be led...and that's where our choice of president comes in.

Think about it this way: if it was possible to make very strong and independent institutions that can work efficiently whatever leadership they have, then what would be the point of voting? Indeed, what would be the point of having any leader?
Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
mukiha
#23 Posted : Tuesday, March 29, 2011 8:43:30 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
YesuWangu wrote:


Bwenyenye, I was wondering, decades ago, someone wanted Kenya to be aligned to the East, with China and USSR. He was resisted and sent to Siberia, as it were. Kenya was a friend of the West and USA. Behold, the current leaders are aligning Kenya to China. What has changed?

What will change? What has changed? Please answer me.



NO! This is a fallacy propagated by uninformed mass media columnists!

Kenya still remains politically and economically aligned to the west! The UK is still our largest trading partner!

However; China is steadily closing the gap... but all this is economic. Our politics is still aligned to western style democracies.

In fact; even China is slowly changing its political affiliation towards the west.

And regarding communist Russia [i.e. USSR], that one ended a long time ago.
Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
nostoppingthis
#24 Posted : Tuesday, March 29, 2011 8:54:41 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 8/24/2009
Posts: 5,909
Location: Nairobi
@Mukiha, what people are avoiding here is, "Is Kenya ready for a woman president from Central Kenya"....
YesuWangu
#25 Posted : Tuesday, March 29, 2011 9:07:45 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 8/11/2010
Posts: 1,588
mukiha wrote:
YesuWangu wrote:


Bwenyenye, I was wondering, decades ago, someone wanted Kenya to be aligned to the East, with China and USSR. He was resisted and sent to Siberia, as it were. Kenya was a friend of the West and USA. Behold, the current leaders are aligning Kenya to China. What has changed?

What will change? What has changed? Please answer me.



NO! This is a fallacy propagated by uninformed mass media columnists!

Kenya still remains politically and economically aligned to the west! The UK is still our largest trading partner!

However; China is steadily closing the gap... but all this is economic. Our politics is still aligned to western style democracies.

In fact; even China is slowly changing its political affiliation towards the west.

And regarding communist Russia [i.e. USSR], that one ended a long time ago.


Mr. Mukiha, the highlighted part of your contribution is exactly what I am saying. I dont have to repeat the numerous China gains in Kenya. As for being politically aligned to the west, some in government want Kenya to break from Western 'imperialist, political' connections, ICC being what I am talking about here. And they are serious about it.

These changes......are so vivid it is impossible to miss them. What if Kenya had been friendly to China all along from those decades past? Would it have been any different? Did Kenya have to wait this long to be friendly to China?

Mr. Nostoppingthis, I am sorry for hijacking this thread with China things. Anyway, I think that question is very hard to answer. That combination is what makes it more complex. A woman president? Why not! From Central Kenya? I do not know, honestly.
bwenyenye
#26 Posted : Tuesday, March 29, 2011 9:08:23 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 5/24/2007
Posts: 1,805
YesuWangu wrote:
bwenyenye wrote:

@ Annsal, ,

Zeitgeist is a documentary of sorts that gives you an inner view of the workings of governements. You will be shocked that many things you call 'news' today are actually pre planned

Sample this,

'On September 9th 2001, a document lay on the US President's desk on the need to attack Afghanistan by war. Reason, Saddam Hussein had refused to yield to the demands of economic hitmen and 'US Jackals' that destabilise countries. On September 11, 2001, they had a reason! Afghanistan, is now rated among the highest poroducers on Heroine which is one thing that Saddam had effectively dealt with.

When you see that attack on Gaddafi, you could see what is happening.

@ Annsal, google it.

When I see guys who are always pro foreigners sorting issues hapa wanting to be president, sisemi kitu! Well I have been fully for ICC process but ....

The problem is that even the other fellows are not any better!


Bwenyenye, I was wondering, decades ago, someone wanted Kenya to be aligned to the East, with China and USSR. He was resisted and sent to Siberia, as it were. Kenya was a friend of the West and USA. Behold, the current leaders are aligning Kenya to China. What has changed?

What will change? What has changed? Please answer me.




@ Yesu Wangu,

I can see someone already gave you a response. However,please note that communist China is very capitalistic. That is why you have all these Chinese companies being ranked among the world's best. The fact is that there is nothing like 'free aid or grant' No country has money to give away for free. It is always in return for something. Now that 'something' being demanded is what determines where Kenya aligns herself.

The Kibaki Administration realised that workiing too closely with the west had almost brought down the Moi regime due to their demands on their money. So what does Kibz and co do? they bring as many people as possible into the tax bracket and support their budget by upto 95%. The West are still held up asking for SAPS including the governemnt must buy Land Rovers from their companies ( By the way, the West is controlled not by politics but by companies) etc. China sees an opportunity in the rising middle calss and quickly 'buy' that market and the building of infrastructure by giving the government 'grants'. When the West realises their companies have been left out of the boom, they begin sending economic hitmen to sabotage anything the country is doing so as to instal one of their own. He who believes that the Kenyan Police , Judiciary and anything Kenyan is substandard apart from the presidency. They even send him a guy to do his PR 'pro bono' and we know what happenned after the election. I hold my peace.
I Think Therefore I Am
ecstacy
#27 Posted : Tuesday, March 29, 2011 9:44:46 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2008
Posts: 4,449
The real question is - Martha Karua for President, why not?
YesuWangu
#28 Posted : Tuesday, March 29, 2011 9:52:51 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 8/11/2010
Posts: 1,588


Mr. Bwenyenye, all you have said is true and yes I have got responses, but my question is still unanswered. And I really need it answered.

If I may rephrase it, what if Kenya had been friendly to China long ago, soon after independence? Has Kenya belatedly recognised it is better off with China than with the West? Has Kenya just recently noticed it burnt its fingers with the West?

Of course answers to these questions will breed more questions.
hoodrat
#29 Posted : Tuesday, March 29, 2011 10:08:45 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 4/27/2010
Posts: 262
mukiha wrote:
hoodrat wrote:
Totally agree Martha has what it takes.But from a gender perspective don't know if Kenya is ready for a woman president.How many African countries have elected women presidents?Only one comes to mind!

Why wouldn't Kenya be ready for a woman president? Is there something that women presidents do that Kenya is not ready for?

This statement really irks me: it is a cover-up for sexist, male chauvinist opinions!

Some one wants to say "I wouldn't vote for a woman president" but feels scared, so the say "Kenya is not ready for a woman president"

BTW: I would vote for Martha, even if she ran against Mutava. I think he still needs to prove whether he is made of steel or wool!

@Mukiha for your info my vote is Martha's and am in no way chauvinist.Women make up 52% of our population.In parliament out 0f 222 Mps there are only about 18 women Mps only 10 elected and 8 nominated.The affirmattive action bill 2007 was meant to address this but never took off.My point is that while there is so much vocal support for women ascent to leadershp,they never translate into votes for women come the ballot.This stats clearly show the level our society is patriachal.I believe a woman president goes a long way in addressing these!
Apparently there is nothing that cannot happen today!
bwenyenye
#30 Posted : Tuesday, March 29, 2011 10:13:41 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 5/24/2007
Posts: 1,805
YesuWangu wrote:


Mr. Bwenyenye, all you have said is true and yes I have got responses, but my question is still unanswered. And I really need it answered.

If I may rephrase it, what if Kenya had been friendly to China long ago, soon after independence? Has Kenya belatedly recognised it is better off with China than with the West? Has Kenya just recently noticed it burnt its fingers with the West?

Of course answers to these questions will breed more questions.


In the 1960's there was a global battle for leadership. The Germans and Russians had been beaten by the allies in the 2nd World War. By any means, German technology was and has remained far more superior than those of the West. The West won the propaganda war and castigated the East and created the 'Cold War'. Back then, Kenya was just emerging from the British Shackles. One of the basic conditionalities for self rule was the preservation of British Interests in Kenya. We could not get out as we had no systems of our own at the time. By the time we realised, we were in too much debt. I know, some good Kenyans saw this and tried to bring in the east. Some of my people even went to study medicine in Russia on a grant. Due to the sanctions that China and the East were getting back then, they could not manage to fight head to head for countries like Kenya and so the thing fizzled out. They set their systems right and now, their savings are running America which is in very very heavy debt.

So Kenya could not have risked going West at that time. We would have suffered many coups like happened with other countries. I think it was a wise move then as stability was what we needed most.I do not think we would have been any better that we are today if we had gone west! Infact, I think we would have been worse off. Again, back then, there were not many conditionalites on grants up till the 1990s.

As things have gotten worse in the West, their aid related conditionalities have worsened with them now looking at economic gains of their companies at the expense of yours in the name of 'globalization'. And so, perhaps Kenya has played its cards well.
I Think Therefore I Am
YesuWangu
#31 Posted : Tuesday, March 29, 2011 10:33:43 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 8/11/2010
Posts: 1,588
bwenyenye wrote:
YesuWangu wrote:


Mr. Bwenyenye, all you have said is true and yes I have got responses, but my question is still unanswered. And I really need it answered.

If I may rephrase it, what if Kenya had been friendly to China long ago, soon after independence? Has Kenya belatedly recognised it is better off with China than with the West? Has Kenya just recently noticed it burnt its fingers with the West?

Of course answers to these questions will breed more questions.


In the 1960's there was a global battle for leadership. The Germans and Russians had been beaten by the allies in the 2nd World War. By any means, German technology was and has remained far more superior than those of the West. The West won the propaganda war and castigated the East and created the 'Cold War'. Back then, Kenya was just emerging from the British Shackles. One of the basic conditionalities for self rule was the preservation of British Interests in Kenya. We could not get out as we had no systems of our own at the time. By the time we realised, we were in too much debt. I know, some good Kenyans saw this and tried to bring in the east. Some of my people even went to study medicine in Russia on a grant. Due to the sanctions that China and the East were getting back then, they could not manage to fight head to head for countries like Kenya and so the thing fizzled out. They set their systems right and now, their savings are running America which is in very very heavy debt.

So Kenya could not have risked going West at that time. We would have suffered many coups like happened with other countries. I think it was a wise move then as stability was what we needed most.I do not think we would have been any better that we are today if we had gone west! Infact, I think we would have been worse off. Again, back then, there were not many conditionalites on grants up till the 1990s.

As things have gotten worse in the West, their aid related conditionalities have worsened with them now looking at economic gains of their companies at the expense of yours in the name of 'globalization'. And so, perhaps Kenya has played its cards well.


Mr. Bwenyenye, but Kenya already had stability. The top contenders of the presidency were showing decorum and maturity (something in dire lack these days) waiting for their colleagues to be released from jail, even refusing to be presidents without their colleagues, quite unheard of in Africa. Some died paupers because of their beliefs.....coups at that point in time was probable but not possible.

Then when Kenya got its president and freedom, it chose to continue British rule almost through proxy, safeguarding British intrests, continuing British methods and systems, mutating and adapting these methods as need arose ......I think a mistake was done in the past. We are only trying to rectify it now. We dont have to be shy about noting Kenya made a mistake.

Kenya could have created new systems and did not have to rely on Britain for anything, it had the brain power which it misused. Kenya could have been better had it not relied on the west, as its leaders thought then. That is what I am trying to say.

And I dont mean it should have then relied on the east. Or what do you think?
Sigiriri
#32 Posted : Tuesday, March 29, 2011 10:43:51 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 6/26/2008
Posts: 319
@YesuWangu, you mention something I have always noted with great concern. Look for example at the Delamere land - when was it paid for? How? Check the Mau Narok land which is now stirring emotions - masai feel it was taken from them by mkoloni and should have been returned to them.

Nothing was done by the so called founding father. The true heroes died poor while some were eliminated for being outspoken about land grabbing and the excesses of the then 'independent' gava which simply mirrored the ways of the white colonial master.

what was this thread about again? Oh! Martha! She's the only one who had declared her interest who I would actually consider voting for.
gmg
#33 Posted : Tuesday, March 29, 2011 10:47:59 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 3/17/2009
Posts: 201
Karua can be a good president but note in kenya u must be a person of building bridges otherwise she will have a tough time with MPIGs, and MPIGs will work to her down fall. She must learn to relate to commom wanjiku Karua handlers needs to have know this by now. consider this UK is considered to be more of a pro-poor in mt Kenya than Karua yet karua ni maskini comared to UK. Karua can easily win presidential polls in Wazua but and for those who considers themselves educated like my collegues in Wazua but for the masses????????
Lolest!
#34 Posted : Tuesday, March 29, 2011 11:00:11 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
bwenyenye wrote:
In the 1960's there was a global battle for leadership. The Germans and Russians had been beaten by the allies in the 2nd World War. By any means, German technology was and has remained far more superior than those of the West. The West won the propaganda war and castigated the East and created the 'Cold War'. Back then, Kenya was just emerging from the British Shackles. One of the basic conditionalities for self rule was the preservation of British Interests in Kenya. .


Correction-Russia did not lose the war. They were part of the allies under Stalin.
That's why they have veto powers in UNSC.

Germany is part of the west.

Nice flow of thoughts though.
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
bwenyenye
#35 Posted : Tuesday, March 29, 2011 11:17:19 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 5/24/2007
Posts: 1,805
@Lolest!

Noted. But realise that you are saying what IS today. Germany was in WW2 fighting against the current West i.e Britain and America. It joined hands with them after this to be part of the West. By then, ity had been hammered to a pulp.

You are right, Russia, though initialy thought to favour Germany, chose to look ( fight) the other way during the war. If it had fought alongside the Germans, the war would have been catastrophic. Infact, it is said that the Germans lost coz the Russians turned their back on them and instead fought alongside the Allies. Question is, did it gain much from the allies?

I really wish we were discussing the African struggle in this detail. Look at us! We are so 'western' ABK!!! You know. more like, the Abgusii had agreat fall out with the Luhyia in 1697. The then Omwani had to marry a girl from the Taita in August 1704 so as to create a new alliance that ensur ehis people peace!!
I Think Therefore I Am
mukiha
#36 Posted : Tuesday, March 29, 2011 11:35:42 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
bwenyenye wrote:
YesuWangu wrote:


Mr. Bwenyenye, all you have said is true and yes I have got responses, but my question is still unanswered. And I really need it answered.

If I may rephrase it, what if Kenya had been friendly to China long ago, soon after independence? Has Kenya belatedly recognised it is better off with China than with the West? Has Kenya just recently noticed it burnt its fingers with the West?

Of course answers to these questions will breed more questions.


In the 1960's there was a global battle for leadership. The Germans and Russians had been beaten by the allies in the 2nd World War. By any means, German technology was and has remained far more superior than those of the West. The West won the propaganda war and castigated the East and created the 'Cold War'. Back then, Kenya was just emerging from the British Shackles. One of the basic conditionalities for self rule was the preservation of British Interests in Kenya. We could not get out as we had no systems of our own at the time. By the time we realised, we were in too much debt. I know, some good Kenyans saw this and tried to bring in the east. Some of my people even went to study medicine in Russia on a grant. Due to the sanctions that China and the East were getting back then, they could not manage to fight head to head for countries like Kenya and so the thing fizzled out. They set their systems right and now, their savings are running America which is in very very heavy debt.

So Kenya could not have risked going West at that time. We would have suffered many coups like happened with other countries. I think it was a wise move then as stability was what we needed most.I do not think we would have been any better that we are today if we had gone west! Infact, I think we would have been worse off. Again, back then, there were not many conditionalites on grants up till the 1990s.

As things have gotten worse in the West, their aid related conditionalities have worsened with them now looking at economic gains of their companies at the expense of yours in the name of 'globalization'. And so, perhaps Kenya has played its cards well.

Wrong!!!!!

In second world war; Russia was on the side as Britain and France!! The three were fighting the Germans. That's how Germany ended up being split to pieces after losing the war.

BTW: the highest score I got in history was 32%... and it was because I cheated!
Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
mukiha
#37 Posted : Tuesday, March 29, 2011 11:38:58 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
bwenyenye wrote:
@Lolest!

Noted. But realise that you are saying what IS today. Germany was in WW2 fighting against the current West i.e Britain and America. It joined hands with them after this to be part of the West. By then, ity had been hammered to a pulp.

You are right, Russia, though initialy thought to favour Germany, chose to look ( fight) the other way during the war. If it had fought alongside the Germans, the war would have been catastrophic. Infact, it is said that the Germans lost coz the Russians turned their back on them and instead fought alongside the Allies. Question is, did it gain much from the allies?

I really wish we were discussing the African struggle in this detail. Look at us! We are so 'western' ABK!!! You know. more like, the Abgusii had agreat fall out with the Luhyia in 1697. The then Omwani had to marry a girl from the Taita in August 1704 so as to create a new alliance that ensur ehis people peace!!


Ai...Yawa!!

Your history....

America is NOT part of "The West", even though it is is the western side of the eurocentric globe.

"The West" is a short form of Western Europe... and America is obviously not in Europe.
Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
Ms Mkenya
#38 Posted : Tuesday, March 29, 2011 12:31:46 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 5/13/2010
Posts: 869
Location: Nairobi
Back to the issue, i would vote for Martha for now. From what we have, she is the closest to what i want from a President.
....above all, to stand.
Njung'e
#39 Posted : Tuesday, March 29, 2011 12:53:09 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/7/2007
Posts: 11,935
Location: Nairobi
@MsKenya,
Me too.Does she have a platform (social site perhaps?) where we can kick of early?...
Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm.
selah
#40 Posted : Tuesday, March 29, 2011 1:16:13 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/13/2009
Posts: 1,950
Location: in kenya
Njung'e wrote:
@MsKenya,
Me too.Does she have a platform (social site perhaps?) where we can kick of early?...


She is in facebook,twitter and I think she has a site.She usually engages the public on myriad of issues on those accounts.

'......to the acknowledgment of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ; 3 In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.' Colossians 2:2-3
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