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Africa plots mass walkout from ICC
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B.Timer
#41 Posted : Tuesday, March 15, 2011 4:25:08 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 5/31/2008
Posts: 1,076
bwenyenye wrote:
Good People,

I am not convinced that ICC is the way to go for Kenya, I just do not see another 'real option'. We could not even touch the 'drug lords'. Our Top Cop came out of it scathed! yet these are just businessmen who are protected by the powers that be!!! How much do you think we can do to the Powers that be!!! Let's get real folks!


You might have a point there.

The import of it then is that the push for new constitution was mere window dressing.
Dunia ni msongamano..
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Genghis Khan
#42 Posted : Tuesday, March 15, 2011 5:10:32 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 8/5/2010
Posts: 335
Location: Nairobi
For Sport wrote:
Ok. The ICC is flawed. Seriously flawed.
Our courts are flawed. Seriously flawed.
Lets use neither.
Or lets choose the lesser of the two evils.


What have u said?
"I'd rather be lucky than clever... every time!" - ME
"The problem is not what we don't know... it's what we know for sure that just ain't!" - MARK TWAIN
"Space we can recover... time never!" - NAPOLEON BONAPARTE
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Genghis Khan
#43 Posted : Tuesday, March 15, 2011 5:16:23 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 8/5/2010
Posts: 335
Location: Nairobi
Case for the ICC Process

1.We have no beef with the west as far as PEV is concerned. ICC is a means for Kenyans to get justice. This can only happen outside the scope of influence of our "leaders". The case for sovereignity needs to be championed in another forum (where there is no blood).

2a)GoK under Kibaki, Raila, Kalonzo, Ruto, Uhuru etc. will NEVER indict anyone for the 2007/8 PEV. If any Kenyan thinks otherwise he/she is a simple idiot.

2b)If any Kenyan does not want people prosecuted for PEV then they were involved or they have a common interest with perpetrators.

3.What is the cost of the ICC process to Kenyans? Ans. Kshs0.00 (we may want to "fund-raise" and give Ocampo a "Per-Conviction-Bonus" as an incentive for his good time).

4.There are some old guys (Ali, Kosgey, Muthaura) who are not fit for prison. They will not spend their twilight years in jail for any "Principals" or "Principles". I think they will co-operate and make deals with "investigators" for lenient sentences. This will help fix any culpable / reprehensible "principals" and their bad company. Good riddance, I say!
"I'd rather be lucky than clever... every time!" - ME
"The problem is not what we don't know... it's what we know for sure that just ain't!" - MARK TWAIN
"Space we can recover... time never!" - NAPOLEON BONAPARTE
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  | | Edit by user: Tuesday, March 15, 2011 5:45 PM | Reason: Not specified
kadonye
#44 Posted : Tuesday, March 15, 2011 5:20:51 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 5/30/2009
Posts: 1,390
Withdrawal from the ICC is bad for Africa. Lets face it is an unfair court, Ocampo is an excited quack but it scares away potential warlorlds! Impunity has reigned big time all over the 3rd world. All one needed to do after killing scores of people and being deposed from power was to seek asylum in a friendly country and live peacefully thereafter. Does anyone remember Idi Amin of Uganda?-after being deposed he fled to Saudi Arabia where he lived comfortably. Mengistu Haile Mariam of Ethiopia-in his rule, once your relative was executed, you would pay the govt for wastage of bullets! He is alive and comfortable, being protected by Mugabe. Nothing was done to them despite their heinous crimes. Let the ICC stay. Whetheq or not its good for Kenya ni mambo ingine
What a wicked man I am!The things I want to do,I don't do.The things I don't want to do I find myself doing
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newfarer
#45 Posted : Tuesday, March 15, 2011 5:25:09 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 3/19/2010
Posts: 3,505
Location: Uganda
Kadogo , makes sense.Wish B.timer , Ngalaka, Masukuma would see this sense.As for Simon, I give up
punda amecheka
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  | | Edit by user: Tuesday, March 15, 2011 5:29 PM | Reason: Not specified
alma
#46 Posted : Tuesday, March 15, 2011 6:04:02 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/20/2007
Posts: 4,432
So this is what happens every election cycle.

I've been looking at the posts about this ICC thing and its interesting to note that its gone tribal.

Very sad indeed.

My view is simple.

If anyone was involved in any of the shenanigans of 2007 they should go and tetea themselves there. Not set up matatu meetings to say how evil the ICC is to "africans".

If you don't want to go there, then set up a viable option to prosecute the same and more people involved. Even Simonkabz doesn't believe this will ever happen.

For as long as I will see IDP camps and Mau forest evictees living in the cold, I will support any process to bring even a modicum of payback. If it touches on your "king", I am sorry but you should probably make better choices with your leaders.

In the meantime, the clock is still ticking and yes some people will become "washtakiwa" come November. Even if you run the silliest social media campaign I have ever seen in my life.
Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
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Ngalaka
#47 Posted : Tuesday, March 15, 2011 6:09:06 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 10/29/2008
Posts: 1,566
newfarer wrote:
Kadogo , makes sense.Wish B.timer , Ngalaka, Masukuma would see this sense.As for Simon, I give up






Differentiate between decry for lack of fairness/incompetence and advocacy for complete scrapping.
I actually agree with Kadonye that such a body (credible/unbiased) is indeed necessary to send messages to all rogues that one day they will pay for their evil deeds.
That will serve as a dis-incentive to such despots.

See my [post #48;

http://www.wazua.com/for...sts&t=10965&p=3

Isuni yilu yi maa me muyo - ni Mbisuu
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  | | Edit by user: Tuesday, March 15, 2011 6:16 PM | Reason: Not specified
Obi 1 Kanobi
#48 Posted : Tuesday, March 15, 2011 6:19:12 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/23/2008
Posts: 3,017
This debate about the merits of ICC would make alot of sense if we had a viable credible court right here in Kenya to compare with(like a functioning judiciary, or an international standard tribunal). Unfortunately right now that option is not on the table and chances are it will not be in awhile.

Hate them or not, the west have credible systems in place, thats why Tony Blair has been going into and out of inquiries to explain his part in Iraq Invasion. The US has a very tested and tried justice system.

As soon as we get our own comparable systems in place, I suggest we accept the crumbs from the Mzungu table, same way we accept cash aid and used clothes and tired ideas and washed up expats.
"The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
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TAZ
#49 Posted : Tuesday, March 15, 2011 6:31:13 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 11/14/2007
Posts: 4,152
alma wrote:
So this is what happens every election cycle.

I've been looking at the posts about this ICC thing and its interesting to note that its gone tribal.

Very sad indeed.

My view is simple.

If anyone was involved in any of the shenanigans of 2007 they should go and tetea themselves there. Not set up matatu meetings to say how evil the ICC is to "africans".

If you don't want to go there, then set up a viable option to prosecute the same and more people involved. Even Simonkabz doesn't believe this will ever happen.

For as long as I will see IDP camps and Mau forest evictees living in the cold, I will support any process to bring even a modicum of payback. If it touches on your "king", I am sorry but you should probably make better choices with your leaders.

In the meantime, the clock is still ticking and yes some people will become "washtakiwa" come November. Even if you run the silliest social media campaign I have ever seen in my life.


The sad truth is that it all went tribal the moment Ocampo decided to make it so. We all expected people like Ruto, Ali and UK to be on the list and i'm so sure the knew that as well...We are all focusing on the "Ocampo six" and have completely forgotten about the other equally guilty politicians who were not named by Ocampo for whatever reasons.

If RAO or Nyong'o were in Ocampo's list, do you think Kisumu and Kibera residents would have been for the hague option....Hate or love them WR and UK have very many followers who believe in their innocence!
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  | | Edit by user: Tuesday, March 15, 2011 6:32 PM | Reason: Not specified
newfarer
#50 Posted : Tuesday, March 15, 2011 6:34:53 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 3/19/2010
Posts: 3,505
Location: Uganda
For me , knowing Kenya well , I would support the Hague option , whether Kibaki or RAO was in the list or not.
Justice to the IDPs and those whose airports were sealed with superglue, and pinetrees were cruelly cut.

Nothing will happen in a local tribunal .It has not happened 3 years down the line , it will not happen locally 100years down the line .

If RAO or Kibs goes to Hague , the plates in my kitchen will remain the same.
punda amecheka
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  | | Edit by user: Tuesday, March 15, 2011 6:37 PM | Reason: Not specified
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