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Africa plots mass walkout from ICC
Rank: Elder Joined: 7/26/2007 Posts: 6,514
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maskini Business opportunities are like buses,there's always another one coming
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Rank: Member Joined: 2/17/2010 Posts: 234 Location: Nairobi
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- kenya's big kabilas have fallen into predictable formation behind their respective sons.
- deja vu. it is 2006-7 all over again.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/17/2008 Posts: 23,365 Location: Nairobi
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Crimes against humanity, as defined by the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court Explanatory Memorandum, "are particularly odious offences in that they constitute a serious attack on human dignity or grave humiliation or a degradation of one or more human beings. They are not isolated or sporadic events, but are part either of a government policy (although the perpetrators need not identify themselves with this policy) or of a wide practice of atrocities tolerated or condoned by a government or a de facto authority. Murder; extermination; torture; rape; political, racial, or religious persecution and other inhumane acts reach the threshold of crimes against humanity only if they are part of a widespread or systematic practice. Isolated inhumane acts of this nature may constitute grave infringements of human rights, or depending on the circumstances, war crimes, but may fall short of falling into the category of crimes under discussion." ..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 5/31/2008 Posts: 1,076
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McReggae wrote:Crimes against humanity, as defined by the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court Explanatory Memorandum, "are particularly odious offences in that they constitute a serious attack on human dignity or grave humiliation or a degradation of one or more human beings. They are not isolated or sporadic events, but are part either of a government policy (although the perpetrators need not identify themselves with this policy) or of a wide practice of atrocities tolerated or condoned by a government or a de facto authority. Murder; extermination; torture; rape; political, racial, or religious persecution and other inhumane acts reach the threshold of crimes against humanity only if they are part of a widespread or systematic practice. Isolated inhumane acts of this nature may constitute grave infringements of human rights, or depending on the circumstances, war crimes, but may fall short of falling into the category of crimes under discussion." How do we rate Uhurus case over Naivasha and Nakuru. Dunia ni msongamano..
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/19/2007 Posts: 2,047
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YesuWangu wrote:It takes courage to accept that which we cannot change. After convincing ourselves that ICC is meant for Africans, because it is only us Africans who can raise a panga and hack to death the next person, why dont we accept it, then?
Surely if we killed the members of the offending tribe with tomahawk missiles, nighthawks and such other high tech weaponry we Africans would not be targeted by ICC just as the others are not. That is a lesson to be learnt here.
The next war should not be fought with panga and petrol, if that is any consolation.
The ICC does not target only the people who raise pangas and machetes.....crimes against humanity is way broader than this. Anybody out there wondering why ICC already has tentacles in Libya citing crimes against humanity,yet nothing can be done to US + UK because of their unilateral invasion of Iraq,wounding million and leaving others maimed for life in search of non-existent WMD? It helps to take a sober look at the world as it and the world as it should be in broader parameters. Take a look at the options that East Timor,Sierra leone and Cambodia took after unrest in these countries.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 8/11/2010 Posts: 1,588
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famooz wrote:YesuWangu wrote:It takes courage to accept that which we cannot change. After convincing ourselves that ICC is meant for Africans, because it is only us Africans who can raise a panga and hack to death the next person, why dont we accept it, then?
Surely if we killed the members of the offending tribe with tomahawk missiles, nighthawks and such other high tech weaponry we Africans would not be targeted by ICC just as the others are not. That is a lesson to be learnt here.
The next war should not be fought with panga and petrol, if that is any consolation.
The ICC does not target only the people who raise pangas and machetes.....crimes against humanity is way broader than this. Anybody out there wondering why ICC already has tentacles in Libya citing crimes against humanity,yet nothing can be done to US + UK because of their unilateral invasion of Iraq,wounding million and leaving others maimed for life in search of non-existent WMD? It helps to take a sober look at the world as it and the world as it should be in broader parameters. Take a look at the options that East Timor,Sierra leone and Cambodia took after unrest in these countries. I know, I know and I hear you. What other lessons can we learn from those countries? Surely there is more than just 'they had local tribunals'. a) How did they set them up, how fast did they do it? b) How transparent did they do it? How independent were they? c) How fearless were they accusing and confronting the powers-that-were? d) Etc You know, the whole nine yards. It helps being a super power, it will help you escape things that you easily force others to go through. And the juicy part is, there is nothing they can do about it. That is the world as it is.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,823 Location: Nairobi
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people think ICC is a cure for problems - in all countries that have used it, it has been given leeway? ICC WILL NOT MEND THE RELATIONS BETWEEN WARING/COMPETING COMMUNITIES IT HAS NEVER DONE NOR WILL EVER DO - ITS NOT A PANACEA. unless Issues are sorted, we are treating a symptoms. All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 5/24/2007 Posts: 1,805
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Good People, I am not convinced that ICC is the way to go for Kenya, I just do not see another 'real option'. We could not even touch the 'drug lords'. Our Top Cop came out of it scathed! yet these are just businessmen who are protected by the powers that be!!! How much do you think we can do to the Powers that be!!! Let's get real folks! I Think Therefore I Am
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/19/2010 Posts: 3,505 Location: Uganda
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masukuma wrote:people think ICC is a cure for problems - in all countries that have used it, it has been given leeway?
ICC WILL NOT MEND THE RELATIONS BETWEEN WARING/COMPETING COMMUNITIES
IT HAS NEVER DONE NOR WILL EVER DO - ITS NOT A PANACEA.
unless Issues are sorted, we are treating a symptoms. Now we are sure that a local tribunal to try the big shots will be Kupaka mbwa rangi given the way they have been shifting goals.OOH dont be vague lets go to hague, mara hague will take upto 2090 to try us , who will be alive that time ? ,mara local tribunal is the best for our sovereighty .Goal shifting. Justice must be seen to be done to the IDPs.This can only be done from outside since weve had 3 years to do it internally yet nothing has been done.Wacha ICC itusaide. Tumeshindwa punda amecheka
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Rank: Member Joined: 10/26/2010 Posts: 125
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And those complaining that US and other superpowers are not in the ICC or are involved in crimes against humanity, well the big boys always do what they want. What can we do anyway??? Kenya first has to threaten 'bout leaving the ICC, then maybe leave-( am 95 % sure that Kenya won't leave ). If we were a serious state, we would simply leave. In East Africa , where we pride ourselves of being the most influential , we don't take some of our neighbours seriously.
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Africa plots mass walkout from ICC
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