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ICC+RAO - NO BWANA
Nandwa
#1 Posted : Friday, March 11, 2011 11:38:55 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/17/2009
Posts: 1,049

Nauliza swali nijibiwe

All those 'Kenyans' who are vigorously supporting the ICC trials at the moment.

In the event that kina Ruto implicate RAO and ICC is convinced and moves to summon him, will they remain consistent!

Will the tune change!!!!
Your guess as good as mine.

'Kenyans'!
Just as absolute power corrupts leaders, so does absolute fanaticism blind the people from logic
McReggae
#2 Posted : Friday, March 11, 2011 11:51:20 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/17/2008
Posts: 23,365
Location: Nairobi
Nandwa wrote:

Nauliza swali nijibiwe

All those 'Kenyans' who are vigorously supporting the ICC trials at the moment.

In the event that kina Ruto implicate RAO and ICC is convinced and moves to summon him, will they remain consistent!

Will the tune change!!!!
Your guess as good as mine.

'Kenyans'!


...In essence implying that you don't support the ICC coz Raila is not on the list.....umejinyonga hapo!!!!
..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
ecstacy
#3 Posted : Friday, March 11, 2011 11:57:45 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2008
Posts: 4,449
Nandwa wrote:

Nauliza swali nijibiwe

All those 'Kenyans' who are vigorously supporting the ICC trials at the moment.

In the event that kina Ruto implicate RAO and ICC is convinced and moves to summon him, will they remain consistent!

Will the tune change!!!!
Your guess as good as mine.

'Kenyans'!


Valid question given the ICC has since been reduced to a PNU vs ODM[half of the 'maisha bora'] affair at the leadership level. It's good to see some pro-'PNU' supporters support the Hague process. As you ask, will the same hold if RAO or his field marshall Nyong'o is implicated?...
Surealligator
#4 Posted : Friday, March 11, 2011 12:42:48 PM
Rank: User


Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 709
Location: Velayat-e Faryab
ecstacy wrote:
Nandwa wrote:

Nauliza swali nijibiwe

All those 'Kenyans' who are vigorously supporting the ICC trials at the moment.

In the event that kina Ruto implicate RAO and ICC is convinced and moves to summon him, will they remain consistent!

Will the tune change!!!!
Your guess as good as mine.

'Kenyans'!


Valid question given the ICC has since been reduced to a PNU vs ODM[half of the 'maisha bora'] affair at the leadership level. It's good to see some pro-'PNU' supporters support the Hague process. As you ask, will the same hold if RAO or his field marshall Nyong'o is implicated?...


@Ecstacy

Am surprised you know that Nyong'o was initially in the Waki envelop but be careful here as guys tend to get very emotional when you touch their own.

Am still asking questions and digging and learning.

A passage from some serious review column

"What this illustrates is that accusations of neocolonial intent on the part of the ICC are misguided. The Court’s selections are not informed by nefarious intentions.

Rather they are indicative of its shrewd political calculus (or lack of it). The ICC does not have the legitimacy or backing at this point to go to politically sensitive places—places where a major power might object (Talk of a Judiciary system where a select few cannot be charged). This is especially true of the Court’s dealings with American interests. The attitude of the United States toward the Court during the Bush administration was one of acrimonious dismissal at best.

Therefore, these early cases for the ICC must not only be supported by strong evidence; they also must not obtrude on major power interests.

The Court knows that it must build its legitimacy on the edges of international politics and grow slowly in stature and legitimacy. The Court is aware that it is too weak to challenge a P5 country directly, so it avoids Iraq and Georgia.

It is cognizant too of challenging a country that enjoys a major power’s alliance (Israel), and so it does not open an investigation in Palestine.

The ICC knows that it must carve out its place in the larger realm of international institutions. But it can only do so where interests of the powerful do not collide.

So it goes to Africa.

A case of crucify the man on the street and protecting the elite = the other definition of impunity.

http://www.iar-gwu.org/node/87


Italicized words are mine.
Go overdrive in purchasing the goods when there's blood on the streets, expecially if the blood is your own
simonkabz
#5 Posted : Friday, March 11, 2011 12:56:56 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/2/2007
Posts: 8,776
Location: Cameroon
@intel, fm that excerpt, its a pointer to the naivete of kenyans n consistently self-screwing, making noise left right centre up n dwn.
TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
McReggae
#6 Posted : Friday, March 11, 2011 1:00:23 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/17/2008
Posts: 23,365
Location: Nairobi
eih thimioni, hii ICC is a thorn in the flesh for you, if only you could have it banned!!!....
..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
Ngalaka
#7 Posted : Friday, March 11, 2011 1:20:32 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 10/29/2008
Posts: 1,566
simonkabz wrote:
@intel, fm that excerpt, its a pointer to the naivete of kenyans n consistently self-screwing, making noise left right centre up n dwn.


Ditto!


Sometimes we choose not to analyse matters out for ourselves - leaving the Politicos to think for us!

Can anybody even begin to imagine Ocampo posturing to indict Putin/Medvedev?

But Ocampo blinks not as he announces that he/ICC have indicted a sitting president in Africa.

Let them try Israel kama hawata lipuliwa siku hiyo hiyo!!
Isuni yilu yi maa me muyo - ni Mbisuu
ecstacy
#8 Posted : Friday, March 11, 2011 1:38:42 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2008
Posts: 4,449
Surealligator wrote:
ecstacy wrote:
Nandwa wrote:

Nauliza swali nijibiwe

All those 'Kenyans' who are vigorously supporting the ICC trials at the moment.

In the event that kina Ruto implicate RAO and ICC is convinced and moves to summon him, will they remain consistent!

Will the tune change!!!!
Your guess as good as mine.

'Kenyans'!


Valid question given the ICC has since been reduced to a PNU vs ODM[half of the 'maisha bora'] affair at the leadership level. It's good to see some pro-'PNU' supporters support the Hague process. As you ask, will the same hold if RAO or his field marshall Nyong'o is implicated?...


@Ecstacy

Am surprised you know that Nyong'o was initially in the Waki envelop but be careful here as guys tend to get very emotional when you touch their own.

Am still asking questions and digging and learning.

A passage from some serious review column

"What this illustrates is that accusations of neocolonial intent on the part of the ICC are misguided. The Court’s selections are not informed by nefarious intentions.

Rather they are indicative of its shrewd political calculus (or lack of it). The ICC does not have the legitimacy or backing at this point to go to politically sensitive places—places where a major power might object (Talk of a Judiciary system where a select few cannot be charged). This is especially true of the Court’s dealings with American interests. The attitude of the United States toward the Court during the Bush administration was one of acrimonious dismissal at best.

Therefore, these early cases for the ICC must not only be supported by strong evidence; they also must not obtrude on major power interests.

The Court knows that it must build its legitimacy on the edges of international politics and grow slowly in stature and legitimacy. The Court is aware that it is too weak to challenge a P5 country directly, so it avoids Iraq and Georgia.

It is cognizant too of challenging a country that enjoys a major power’s alliance (Israel), and so it does not open an investigation in Palestine.

The ICC knows that it must carve out its place in the larger realm of international institutions. But it can only do so where interests of the powerful do not collide.

So it goes to Africa.

A case of crucify the man on the street and protecting the elite = the other definition of impunity.

http://www.iar-gwu.org/node/87


Italicized words are mine.

@surealligator, nice analysis. need I say more? Unfortunately for Kenya, addressing impunity as wielded against the governed by the leadership cannot be led by the incumbent who are beneficiaries of the same. The obvious is playing out and you can be sure it wouldn't be better if coalition positions were actually shifted. It remains remarkable that a ruling head of state in africa can help pass a constitution that trims his executive powers even in the transition period [some will still choose to start debating this] Kenyans don't beat yourselves too much...However the day Kibs or RAO can be indicted (possibly post-2012) and the railway is still intact, Kenya will have moved a step forward. Until then, as Kenyan politics 'matures', veiled propagandism combined with economic sticks & carrots will be the weapon of choice for the West to unseat the ruling pigs.
kadonye
#9 Posted : Friday, March 11, 2011 1:48:36 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 5/30/2009
Posts: 1,390
Of course if Amolo or Peter were in the list their supporters would have been against ICC. For many, its not a matter of principle, its politics. Thats why uhurus men are against Den Haag
What a wicked man I am!The things I want to do,I don't do.The things I don't want to do I find myself doing
simonkabz
#10 Posted : Friday, March 11, 2011 6:16:35 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/2/2007
Posts: 8,776
Location: Cameroon
@kadosh, i once suggested that Luos shouldnt even comment on the ICC issue n lo! Karibu jahman wapige mimi mawe yawa! If RAO or Nyosh were in the list, jahman kangekuwa ICU walai lol! Am I controversial? No. Just HONEST.
TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
McReggae
#11 Posted : Friday, March 11, 2011 7:34:04 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/17/2008
Posts: 23,365
Location: Nairobi
thimioni, sasa hivi nishaanza kututha, promise l'll give yu a honest opinion of McReggae regarding all this shyt, in the meantym know we don't kill, we don't rape, tafakari hayo.......blood scares us!!!!!
..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
kadonye
#12 Posted : Friday, March 11, 2011 8:46:35 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 5/30/2009
Posts: 1,390
Simon, why? Why not Luhyas, Pokomo or Rendille? But lets admit it. Our politicians are smart. They make a decision n we follow them. Call them pigs, idiots, whatever but truth is if they are daft, we are twice as daft. Imagine the positions people would take if Agwambo opposed ICC or if the list was exclusively full of ODM leaders(including Odinga faction)...just imagine. What positions would mcreggae and skabz take?
What a wicked man I am!The things I want to do,I don't do.The things I don't want to do I find myself doing
masukuma
#13 Posted : Friday, March 11, 2011 8:50:48 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
The rome statute is a sham coz 3 out of the 5 members of the United Nations Security Council i.e. China, Russia and United States are not even signatories.
Halafu one of them says - WE SHALL VETO!! what hypocrisy.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
simonkabz
#14 Posted : Saturday, March 12, 2011 1:00:08 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/2/2007
Posts: 8,776
Location: Cameroon
@kadosh, coz their leaders should hav been in the hague list bt they manoeuvred their way out. @jahman, that I knw n truly respect (unlike some of my kyuk brothers who kill in cold blood n feel nothing 'bout it), bt the violence n raising political heat yawa! N taking political advantage of any situation no matter how hard it hurts the other side....
TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
thuks
#15 Posted : Saturday, March 12, 2011 1:48:48 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 10/8/2008
Posts: 1,575
None of the P5 asked us to join ICC, we joined of our own volition.
Were any crimes committed as a result of the 2007 elections? PNU- yes;ODM - yes
Do we have a judiciary in kenya? If yes,
Why are our 2007 murderers and rapists roaming our country's streets 3 yrs after their crimes?
How many are behind bars?
The p5 are simply saying,"abide by your rules, you were myopic enough to accept them in the first place"
Let us not pretend, let us not be vague, this is the highest level of impunity.
I can swear by anything that if the names in the list were non descript fellows (read you and me), this thread leave alone acres of media space on the issue would exist!!!
I care!
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