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Fees, Taxes, Stupidity - 'clean' business is very tough in Kenya
Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,098 Location: Nairobi
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http://www.businessdaily.../-/1fjio1z/-/index.html
How does CCK justify such high fees? The telcos are being squeezed by such institutions which means the END USERS will pay more! IMHO, such fees should be capped & all taxes/levies should be shown as a cost to consumers. I pay 1/- per minute for Airtel-Airtel. I would love to see how much goes to taxes/levies...! All telcos suffer [and this cost is passed on to consumers] with such crazy levies & fees with LITTLE to show for it! Same thing happens when I pay taxes to Nairobi City Council. They claim they use it well on ALL residents. Bullshit! Why am I paying for others??? No wonder we pay such high prices for everything. The inefficiencies & hidden levies by GoK entities add to the final cost [without a commensurate return]. Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/12/2006 Posts: 1,554
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VituVingiSana wrote:http://www.businessdailyafrica....4/-/1fjio1z/-/index.htmlHow does CCK justify such high fees? The telcos are being squeezed by such institutions which means the END USERS will pay more! IMHO, such fees should be capped & all taxes/levies should be shown as a cost to consumers. I pay 1/- per minute for Airtel-Airtel. I would love to see how much goes to taxes/levies...! All telcos suffer [and this cost is passed on to consumers] with such crazy levies & fees with LITTLE to show for it! No wonder we pay such high prices for everything. The inefficiencies & hidden levies by GoK entities add to the final cost [without a commensurate return]. Thats the reason we keep saying that the low calling rates as prescribed by Airtel are unsustainable businesswise, once you put all factors in focus you will understand why our telco industry is in a dangerous position, and likely to face slow or zero growth, firing and export of jobs, lack of technological innovations, closure... to name but a few.
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,098 Location: Nairobi
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Jamani wrote:Thats the reason we keep saying that the low calling rates as prescribed by Airtel are unsustainable businesswise, once you put all factors in focus you will understand why our telco industry is in a dangerous position, and likely to face slow or zero growth, firing and export of jobs, lack of technological innovations, closure... to name but a few. You have this ALL WRONG... the issue is NOT about Airtel's startegy... The issue is the inefficiencies, ineptness, stupidity that this [CCK & GoK] costs the consumers [whether through Safaricom, YU or Airtel] by favoring a selct few [CCK employees & bureaKRAZY]... I don't get your arguments... Do you support government bloat for a few cushy jobs??? [BTW, eliminating those cushy vampiric jobs will benefit KENYANS much more...] Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/12/2006 Posts: 1,554
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VituVingiSana wrote:Jamani wrote:Thats the reason we keep saying that the low calling rates as prescribed by Airtel are unsustainable businesswise, once you put all factors in focus you will understand why our telco industry is in a dangerous position, and likely to face slow or zero growth, firing and export of jobs, lack of technological innovations, closure... to name but a few. You have this ALL WRONG... the issue is NOT about Airtel's startegy... The issue is the inefficiencies, ineptness, stupidity that this [CCK & GoK] costs the consumers [whether through Safaricom, YU or Airtel] by favoring a selct few [CCK employees & bureaKRAZY]... I don't get your arguments... Do you support government bloat for a few cushy jobs??? [BTW, eliminating those cushy vampiric jobs will benefit KENYANS much more...] I dont support what you call govt bloat, but thats the reality on the ground and it makes it unsustainable to do business with the rates that Airtel has prescribed. As you say the issue is the inefficiencies, ineptness, stupidity that this [CCK & GoK] costs the consumers and i add which makes it unsustainable to run a business, we should address the issue otherwise it will mess us up.
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,098 Location: Nairobi
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Jamani wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:Jamani wrote:Thats the reason we keep saying that the low calling rates as prescribed by Airtel are unsustainable businesswise, once you put all factors in focus you will understand why our telco industry is in a dangerous position, and likely to face slow or zero growth, firing and export of jobs, lack of technological innovations, closure... to name but a few. You have this ALL WRONG... the issue is NOT about Airtel's startegy... The issue is the inefficiencies, ineptness, stupidity that this [CCK & GoK] costs the consumers [whether through Safaricom, YU or Airtel] by favoring a selct few [CCK employees & bureaKRAZY]... I don't get your arguments... Do you support government bloat for a few cushy jobs??? [BTW, eliminating those cushy vampiric jobs will benefit KENYANS much more...] I dont support what you call govt bloat, but thats the reality on the ground and it makes it unsustainable to do business with the rates that Airtel has prescribed. As you say the issue is the inefficiencies, ineptness, stupidity that this [CCK & GoK] costs the consumers and i add which makes it unsustainable to run a business, we should address the issue otherwise it will mess us up. That's the upside of Airtel's low price strategy [apart from saving me thousands per year] is that the telcos have to get leaner. Even Orange is complaining... Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/12/2006 Posts: 1,554
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VituVingiSana wrote:Jamani wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:Jamani wrote:Thats the reason we keep saying that the low calling rates as prescribed by Airtel are unsustainable businesswise, once you put all factors in focus you will understand why our telco industry is in a dangerous position, and likely to face slow or zero growth, firing and export of jobs, lack of technological innovations, closure... to name but a few. You have this ALL WRONG... the issue is NOT about Airtel's startegy... The issue is the inefficiencies, ineptness, stupidity that this [CCK & GoK] costs the consumers [whether through Safaricom, YU or Airtel] by favoring a selct few [CCK employees & bureaKRAZY]... I don't get your arguments... Do you support government bloat for a few cushy jobs??? [BTW, eliminating those cushy vampiric jobs will benefit KENYANS much more...] I dont support what you call govt bloat, but thats the reality on the ground and it makes it unsustainable to do business with the rates that Airtel has prescribed. As you say the issue is the inefficiencies, ineptness, stupidity that this [CCK & GoK] costs the consumers and i add which makes it unsustainable to run a business, we should address the issue otherwise it will mess us up. That's the upside of Airtel's low price strategy [apart from saving me thousands per year] is that the telcos have to get leaner. Even Orange is complaining... And jobs are being shipped to India, as we celebrate the cheap calling rates and savings soon those savings will be washed aside. The root cause of this issue needs to be addressed and fixed, leading to saving jobs and money.
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,098 Location: Nairobi
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Jamani wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:Jamani wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:Jamani wrote:Thats the reason we keep saying that the low calling rates as prescribed by Airtel are unsustainable businesswise, once you put all factors in focus you will understand why our telco industry is in a dangerous position, and likely to face slow or zero growth, firing and export of jobs, lack of technological innovations, closure... to name but a few. You have this ALL WRONG... the issue is NOT about Airtel's startegy... The issue is the inefficiencies, ineptness, stupidity that this [CCK & GoK] costs the consumers [whether through Safaricom, YU or Airtel] by favoring a selct few [CCK employees & bureaKRAZY]... I don't get your arguments... Do you support government bloat for a few cushy jobs??? [BTW, eliminating those cushy vampiric jobs will benefit KENYANS much more...] I dont support what you call govt bloat, but thats the reality on the ground and it makes it unsustainable to do business with the rates that Airtel has prescribed. As you say the issue is the inefficiencies, ineptness, stupidity that this [CCK & GoK] costs the consumers and i add which makes it unsustainable to run a business, we should address the issue otherwise it will mess us up. That's the upside of Airtel's low price strategy [apart from saving me thousands per year] is that the telcos have to get leaner. Even Orange is complaining... And jobs are being shipped to India, as we celebrate the cheap calling rates and savings soon those savings will be washed aside. The root cause of this issue needs to be addressed and fixed, leading to saving jobs and money. Look, you know I think your stand is NONSENSE... but I am not interested in rehashing that... [please continue spending more on safariCON] The matter at hand is the fees/levies that support a crazy bureauKRAZY [which Safaricom pays the largest amount for/to...]
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/15/2006 Posts: 3,905
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A couple of months ago I touted CCK as one of the regulators with consumer interest paramount.
@VituVingiSana, you are on to something as my post was clearly one dimensional. The money in this industry draws the ugliest of hawks:
- all licenses are issued through questionable intermediaries (Mobitelea, Sameer)
- spectrum, the vital lifeline, can only be obtained from shell companies who receive the same from CCK (Onecom)
- roll out of infrastructure must fit political interests of MPs in their areas for the company to survive
- and the industry in Kenya is most taxed - 4th highest in Africa - contributing 26% direct, 30% corporate, 35% import duty; and now this Universal Service Fund.
Yet tarrifs are the 2nd lowest in Africa - analogically speaking, feels like an inverted KPLC situation where there is no power, and you pay the most in Africa.
A case for better balance across the board.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/12/2006 Posts: 1,554
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VituVingiSana wrote:Jamani wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:Jamani wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:Jamani wrote:Thats the reason we keep saying that the low calling rates as prescribed by Airtel are unsustainable businesswise, once you put all factors in focus you will understand why our telco industry is in a dangerous position, and likely to face slow or zero growth, firing and export of jobs, lack of technological innovations, closure... to name but a few. You have this ALL WRONG... the issue is NOT about Airtel's startegy... The issue is the inefficiencies, ineptness, stupidity that this [CCK & GoK] costs the consumers [whether through Safaricom, YU or Airtel] by favoring a selct few [CCK employees & bureaKRAZY]... I don't get your arguments... Do you support government bloat for a few cushy jobs??? [BTW, eliminating those cushy vampiric jobs will benefit KENYANS much more...] I dont support what you call govt bloat, but thats the reality on the ground and it makes it unsustainable to do business with the rates that Airtel has prescribed. As you say the issue is the inefficiencies, ineptness, stupidity that this [CCK & GoK] costs the consumers and i add which makes it unsustainable to run a business, we should address the issue otherwise it will mess us up. That's the upside of Airtel's low price strategy [apart from saving me thousands per year] is that the telcos have to get leaner. Even Orange is complaining... And jobs are being shipped to India, as we celebrate the cheap calling rates and savings soon those savings will be washed aside. The root cause of this issue needs to be addressed and fixed, leading to saving jobs and money. Look, you know I think your stand is NONSENSE... but I am not interested in rehashing that... [please continue spending more on safariCON] The matter at hand is the fees/levies that support a crazy bureauKRAZY [which Safaricom pays the largest amount for/to...]
Thats my stand... it shouldnt hurt you. The matter at hand is how to stop the fees and levies that support what you call a crazy bureauKRAZY. You dont do it by killing the very industry in the name of cheapness or being philanthropic.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 12/23/2010 Posts: 1,229
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@ VVS and Jamani ...happy to watch this one from the sidelines...again. 
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/1/2008 Posts: 834
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Honestly why should I pay more so that you can keep a job? If the job can be done more efficiently and saving me money, why not? Just develop anther skill or add on to what you have and keep the job if you can - it is a terribly competitive world out here abd only those who can keep their cost down will survive...!peni mbili If you are going to be thinking only one thing, you might as well be thinking big. -Donald J . Trump
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/15/2006 Posts: 3,905
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I think I understand @VVS point. He'd like us to discuss the framework/industry without running down the Safaricom vs Airtel hole. Isn't that a fair point @Jamani @livie? @VVS question, is the government positively facilitating telecoms industry? Mobile firms push for review of spectrum levymuganda wrote:A couple of months ago I touted CCK as one of the regulators with consumer interest paramount.
@VituVingiSana, you are on to something as my post was clearly one dimensional. The money in this industry draws the ugliest of hawks:
- all licenses are issued through questionable intermediaries (Mobitelea, Sameer)
- spectrum, the vital lifeline, can only be obtained from shell companies who receive the same from CCK (Onecom)
- roll out of infrastructure must fit political interests of MPs in their areas for the company to survive
- and the industry in Kenya is most taxed - 4th highest in Africa - contributing 26% direct, 30% corporate, 35% import duty; and now this Universal Service Fund.
A case for better balance across the board.
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Rank: Member Joined: 4/25/2008 Posts: 192 Location: Nairobi
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My concern is slightly different. Everytime a new regulatory body is formed, it gazettes a new levy to be paid by the industry it is operating in. Considering that the services being rendered are statutory, shouldn't all these levies be collected my KRA and paid in to the consolidated fund? While our parliamentarians are crap, they still remain the representative organ of the Kenyans, hence IMHO, they should exercise control over all forms of taxation. Itari muting'oe ihuragwo ngi ni Ngai
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/12/2006 Posts: 1,554
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milken wrote:My concern is slightly different. Everytime a new regulatory body is formed, it gazettes a new levy to be paid by the industry it is operating in. Considering that the services being rendered are statutory, shouldn't all these levies be collected my KRA and paid in to the consolidated fund?
While our parliamentarians are crap, they still remain the representative organ of the Kenyans, hence IMHO, they should exercise control over all forms of taxation. This is exactly my point, we should address this is issue at a certain point and be in control of our country and economy
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/12/2006 Posts: 1,554
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muganda wrote:I think I understand @VVS point. He'd like us to discuss the framework/industry without running down the Safaricom vs Airtel hole. Isn't that a fair point @Jamani @livie? @VVS question, is the government positively facilitating telecoms industry? Mobile firms push for review of spectrum levymuganda wrote:A couple of months ago I touted CCK as one of the regulators with consumer interest paramount.
@VituVingiSana, you are on to something as my post was clearly one dimensional. The money in this industry draws the ugliest of hawks:
- all licenses are issued through questionable intermediaries (Mobitelea, Sameer)
- spectrum, the vital lifeline, can only be obtained from shell companies who receive the same from CCK (Onecom)
- roll out of infrastructure must fit political interests of MPs in their areas for the company to survive
- and the industry in Kenya is most taxed - 4th highest in Africa - contributing 26% direct, 30% corporate, 35% import duty; and now this Universal Service Fund.
A case for better balance across the board.
@Muganda, we cant talk in isolation we must have examples and the telco example came in, I agree we have to look at addressing all these and be in control. we cant have issues addressed by undercutting the market its dangerous for the economy and nation at large.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/12/2006 Posts: 1,554
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livie wrote:Honestly why should I pay more so that you can keep a job?
If the job can be done more efficiently and saving me money, why not?
Just develop anther skill or add on to what you have and keep the job if you can - it is a terribly competitive world out here abd only those who can keep their cost down will survive...!peni mbili Not really, you shouldnt pay more to save jobs you should pay for efficiency and high technology that makes life easy. Having said that paying less under the current situation means you will be paying more eventually how? old inefficient technology, pour equipments that have high radiation leading to hospital expenses, no innovation and a likely scenerio of company closures with a possibility of a monopoly, there goes your saved money
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/12/2006 Posts: 1,554
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For Sport wrote:@ VVS and Jamani ...happy to watch this one from the sidelines...again. Happy to keep you watching and glued on wazua...
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,098 Location: Nairobi
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@milken - The ERC is next! I have seen the Annual Report for ERC for 2008. They make way too much for doing very little. They charge 3cents/kwh to KPLC + charges on fuel imports + other levies. Basically, the overpaid bastards do jack shit! See where NOCK is going to screw us through charging OMCs [& taxpayers] for lying about loading dates! Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,098 Location: Nairobi
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We have CCK, KEBS, ERC, etc... all these bodies add charges [hidden from the public] to what we consume. Often these charges are simply for positions or political jobs. Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,098 Location: Nairobi
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NSE & CMA charges/levies are way too high! The CMA charges us for fancy offices, huge salaries yet they have not helped really expand the market OR provided effective oversight. ERC charges/levies. CCK charges/levies. Many others! There is KEBS. Which others? Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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