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JUBILEE EXPANSION DRIVE
msimon
#11 Posted : Friday, February 04, 2011 12:51:37 PM
Rank: New-farer

Joined: 8/23/2010
Posts: 63
Location: Kampala
bartum wrote:
@msimon dont be ignorant. Jubilee is a much better company compared to kre.if you invest in kre and i go for jubilee, i willbe driving a Ferrari in the next 10 yrs while you will be busy hiking a lift if you survive ulcers.pls check listed portfolio for each


And what is your reasoning behind this. please elaborate and don't give blanket responses like "check listed portfolio for each" it will give me better understanding of what to expect between the two.And since we are using a 10 year time frame assuming both stocks are purchase today, what's your estimate of value for Jubilee 10 years from now, considering its selling for
9,405,000,000 while earning you and average of 913,671,000. compared to Kenya re thats selling for 6,660,000,000 while earning 1,328,904,000. Seriously, am i missing something here!
Lets think for a moment, our average pre-profits for the last 5 years for Jubilee have been 792,289,400/- so let us work with that as our worst case expectation of pre-tax profitability while for kenya re it is 1,163,082,805. So assume that in the next 5 years the profits regress around the 5 year average, it would mean that you expect to earn a total of 3,961,447,000 in worst case scenario from Jubilee during the next 5 years while for kenya re it is 5,815,414,025/- that means at present market Cap, you break even on kenya re in year 6 and for Jubilee its year 11. Remember this assumption considers no growth in earning and is based on the past average performance of the two companies.
I need some help to understand what am missing here, because in my eyes, Kenya Re is much better and i looked at the balance sheets of the two, it still shows that kenya re is more efficient, look at pre-tax return on assets for the 2 companies Kenya Re as at 2009 was 10.05% and am using earnings from short term business while for Jubilee am using net earnings and its 4.7%.
VituVingiSana
#12 Posted : Friday, February 04, 2011 2:04:44 PM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,351
Location: Nairobi
@msimon - There is much more under the surface than the numbers.

Jubilee is a full-line insurer [even has a stake in an African Re-insurer] whereas KenyaRe is a Reinsurer with 'guaranteed' [by law] reinsurance business.
Now the latter [guaranteed biz] looks good does it not? Except... when they lose the guaranteed business [the monopoly which the others are fighting]... then what?

Jubilee has demonstrated EXCELLENT management & expansion into EAC & slowly Africa. Proven over the years. They are backed by the management depth of Aga Khan entities. Other AK firms in Kenya include Diamond Trust, Nation & TPSEA.

KenyaRe does not even have a CEO. Too much politics involved. Where is the ability to innovate or take risks lest you are blamed by GoK, shareholders, Board or public?

Look beyond the numbers too...
Finally, [IMHO] Jubilee is very conservative so the 'profits' are probably understated vs KenyaRe...
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
Gordon Gekko
#13 Posted : Friday, February 04, 2011 2:08:07 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 5/27/2008
Posts: 3,760
My take (simplistic as it is), one has invested in Bujagali Power Project, another has invested in a residential housing estate in Meru. Who would you put your money on?
bartum
#14 Posted : Friday, February 04, 2011 2:10:42 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 8/11/2010
Posts: 1,011
Location: nairobi
@msimon hope @vvs has answered you questions
youcan'tstopusnow
#15 Posted : Friday, February 04, 2011 4:03:13 PM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 3/24/2010
Posts: 6,779
Location: Black Africa
msimon, brilliant insight on the profit margins
GOD BLESS YOUR LIFE
guru267
#16 Posted : Saturday, February 05, 2011 12:22:52 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
VituVingiSana wrote:
They are backed by the management depth of Aga Khan entities. Other AK firms in Kenya include Diamond Trust, Nation & TPSEA.


@VVS please do inform monsieur @msimon that Jubilee Insurance does own a significant stake in all the above mentioned companies including K.P.L.C

While Kenya re is stuck with KCB shares it bought at 35bob and portland which they bought at whatever price..

The quality is in the management mon frere....
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
bartum
#17 Posted : Saturday, February 05, 2011 1:24:52 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 8/11/2010
Posts: 1,011
Location: nairobi
guru267 wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
They are backed by the management depth of Aga Khan entities. Other AK firms in Kenya include Diamond Trust, Nation & TPSEA.


@VVS please do inform monsieur @msimon that Jubilee Insurance does own a significant stake in all the above mentioned companies including K.P.L.C

While Kenya re is stuck with KCB shares it bought at 35bob and portland which they bought at whatever price..

The quality is in the management mon frere....

@msimon that is what i meant by listed portfolio for each
Forester
#18 Posted : Saturday, February 05, 2011 1:44:25 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 12/7/2010
Posts: 520
Location: Epicentre - Ngamia 1
Please...let us not confuse what insurance and reinsurance is.I believe if we get to understand the core business of the two,we'll understand better on where to put our investment.Just a question...has anyone had there car insured or have their Domestic Package policy insured through Kenya-Re?

Build your own dreams, or someone else will hire you to build theirs - Farrah Gray.
VituVingiSana
#19 Posted : Saturday, February 05, 2011 5:01:59 PM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,351
Location: Nairobi
If GoK did not force Kenyan insurance firms to re-insure with KenyaRe... KenyaRe would be much smaller!
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
Ericsson
#20 Posted : Sunday, February 06, 2011 1:51:13 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 10,809
Location: NAIROBI
Jubilee Insurance is expanding to the rest of Africa because of competition and overcrowdness in the Kenyan market.
IRA should work at reducing the insurance companies to about 10 by rasing the paid up capital of insurance companies to ksh.1 Billion.
This will ensure Kenya has insurance companies which can compete,well known in both the African and international market.
Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
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