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How much money does it take to be affluent in Kenya?
gohill
#31 Posted : Wednesday, February 02, 2011 9:42:01 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 6/23/2010
Posts: 182
Location: Kenya
KenyanLyrics wrote:
mukiha wrote:
half acre in Kile-Lavi will put you back Sh70m

Put up 8 units of apartments at say, another Sh30m

Rent them out at Sh60k each

Live in one of them if you want...

Total Expenses = SH100m (US$ 1.25m)

With prices like these people are still touting real estate as the best investment?! 1.25 million dollars should buy you a mansion in the Hamptons, not an apartment block in Lavington! Surely there must be some better underpriced assets in this Kenya

@KenyanLyrics, did you really understand or did you read the thread to understand what's being discussed before commenting? I really doubt you did.
tony stark
#32 Posted : Wednesday, February 02, 2011 2:27:25 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 7/8/2008
Posts: 947
KenyanLyrics wrote:
mukiha wrote:
half acre in Kile-Lavi will put you back Sh70m

Put up 8 units of apartments at say, another Sh30m

Rent them out at Sh60k each

Live in one of them if you want...

Total Expenses = SH100m (US$ 1.25m)

With prices like these people are still touting real estate as the best investment?! 1.25 million dollars should buy you a mansion in the Hamptons, not an apartment block in Lavington! Surely there must be some better underpriced assets in this Kenya

How much do you think 1/2 an acre plot is in Nyari over 20-35 million and you can not build flats in Nyari!! There are people who are selling single residential houses for 100 mill.
mukiha
#33 Posted : Thursday, February 03, 2011 7:59:20 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
KenyanLyrics wrote:
mukiha wrote:
half acre in Kile-Lavi will put you back Sh70m

Put up 8 units of apartments at say, another Sh30m

Rent them out at Sh60k each

Live in one of them if you want...

Total Expenses = SH100m (US$ 1.25m)

With prices like these people are still touting real estate as the best investment?! 1.25 million dollars should buy you a mansion in the Hamptons, not an apartment block in Lavington! Surely there must be some better underpriced assets in this Kenya

Yesterday, I saw a new development coming up on 1/2 an acre in Kileleshwa. It has 24 units! 3 blocks with 8 flats each.

Just as I thought that was a lot, I turned round the corner to see another one with about 50 units - four blocks each going 7 floor up!

So: our friend can put up a modest 24 units at about sh90m + sh70m for the plot = sh160m ($2m)

Expected return now comes to about Sh1.4m pm... about sh1m after tax.
Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
Papa Investor
#34 Posted : Thursday, February 03, 2011 11:46:31 AM
Rank: New-farer

Joined: 6/3/2010
Posts: 96
So: our friend can put up a modest 24 units at about sh90m + sh70m for the plot = sh160m ($2m)

Expected return now comes to about Sh1.4m pm... about sh1m after tax.

13yrs payback period for own development....this seems a bit too high...

Which other ways to outlay same cash but juice annual returns to >10% annually?
KenyanLyrics
#35 Posted : Thursday, February 03, 2011 11:47:17 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 4/16/2010
Posts: 906
Location: Nairobi
@Tonystark funny that you mention Nyari. I live on a 5 acre plot in there and this place was built earlier this decade with WAAAY less than what you've quoted. Iko kitu with these recent land and housing prices. I'd advise jasonhill to hold out for 2012 to do real estate investment
tony stark
#36 Posted : Thursday, February 03, 2011 6:27:48 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 7/8/2008
Posts: 947
KenyanLyrics wrote:
@Tonystark funny that you mention Nyari. I live on a 5 acre plot in there and this place was built earlier this decade with WAAAY less than what you've quoted. Iko kitu with these recent land and housing prices. I'd advise jasonhill to hold out for 2012 to do real estate investment

1. Ati you are 25 living in nyari? You are probably 25 living in your parents in nyari.

2. Hakuna 5 acre plots in nyari ..... never ever!!!

3. The current prices are a consequence of supply and demand!! Kwani 2012 land will miraculously appear from heaven or people will move to makueni hence reducing demand of land in Nairobi

4. You know we are in 2011 which decade are you talking about??

The 35 mill was a piece of land near the dam which was told the owner said not thanks to ... the offer was not from our group though. The 20 mill was another 3/4 in the back dam that is smaller but the prices were too rich for my group!
So I suggest you tell your parent thanks for the roof in a posh neighbourhood!!!
Gordon Gekko
#37 Posted : Thursday, February 03, 2011 8:25:31 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 5/27/2008
Posts: 3,760
The next frontier in real estate are the county capitals. Once the counties kick in there will be movement out of Nairobi to the counties. That means property prices will correct themselves in Nairobi, those of county capitals will appreciate, and there will be a demand for rental units in the county capitals. My 2 heavily depreciated Egyptian pounds.
KenyanLyrics
#38 Posted : Thursday, February 03, 2011 8:59:34 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 4/16/2010
Posts: 906
Location: Nairobi
I won't jack this thread with a personal argument, so just continue giving @jasonhill advice
kadonye
#39 Posted : Thursday, February 03, 2011 9:24:18 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 5/30/2009
Posts: 1,390
@GG, I doubt there will be any major shift towards the counties. These county govts are as slightly more powerful than county councils. There is very little devolution. However, it is true that we are increasingly becoming a majority urban population country and you cant go wrong with real estate.[quote=Gordon Gekko]The next frontier in real estate are the county capitals. Once the counties kick in there will be movement out of Nairobi to the counties. That means property prices will correct themselves in Nairobi, those of county capitals will appreciate, and there will be a demand for rental units in the county capitals. My 2 heavily depreciated Egyptian pounds.[/q
What a wicked man I am!The things I want to do,I don't do.The things I don't want to do I find myself doing
Drunkard
#40 Posted : Wednesday, October 12, 2011 9:57:19 PM
Rank: User

Joined: 5/3/2011
Posts: 559
jasonhill wrote:
@VituVingiSana, thanks for the advice. Can you tell me what goods stand out in your mind that are more expensive or are of an unusable quality? Maybe we'll get together one day and find a way to import better goods at cheaper prices. 99.999% of goods sold in the USA are made in China. There must be a fair amount of "rebadging" going on for Kenyans to think that US products are of a higher quality. I don't see why we can't cut out the middle man and import direct from China. The only thing that the USA and UK companies do is make Chinese companies refund their (and thus the customer's) money for shoddy items and offer warranties to customers. The warranty simply means that they will send a bad item back to China and China sends out a new, working item. Labor is too expensive in the US and UK to repair most things- cheaper to replace. That said, I don't understand what seems to me to be a Kenyan affinity for US and UK goods, and an aversion to Chinese goods. All the US and UK do is quality-assess and inspect the goods, and demand the better quality yields, and better specifications of the same products from the same factories in China. If we enforce such wholesale quality and spec demands of China from Kenya, we will be able to offer good products for cheaper and make a fortune. What I don't know about, not having done business in Kenya, is import duties and getting stuff through the port of Mombasa... paperwork gets stalled... that's my biggest concern. I can't have that. I'll pay kitu kidogo, if I have to. In the US, kitu kidogo is called "consulting fees" and "union scale" or some other catchy term. There is no difference, except once it is paid things move very, very quickly. I just can't ever have business waiting- ever. That would put us at a tactical disadvantage. On the other hand, I don't want to have to commute to Mombasa every other day to make sure my stuff gets offloaded and into trucks. Other than that, there's billions of Shillings in retail if we cut out the middleman, in my view, and I look to my fellow Wazuans to "show me the ropes".

@X13united, thanks for the comment. I love the fact that it seems that Kenya is at the point where a great deal of money can be made in international business by being flexible and adapting to changing market conditions and needs. I'm open to any legit business that I can understand that isn't a pyramid scheme, and that I have a direct, on-the-ground hand in directing and contributing to. That's my issue with stocks- if I'm not on the board of directors, I have a problem, because I lack the influence to move the stock- unless I buy a controlling interest in it in which case I'd install myself as COO.

@jmbada, I agree totally. In the US, having house helps is out of the question unless you make around 80,000,000Ksh+ a year. Labor is very, very expensive and regulated. That's the greatest luxury to me: multiple personal assistants. In the US I have a work-only secretary. I need a personal one (or two). Every other luxury item, besides very fast internet and maybe a decent Italian suit or two, I can do without. I'm as comfortable in a Changaa joint with a giant straw as in the Sarova for lunch drinking Mtembezi Blue.

Power and water are indeed a concern of mine; I have baked in plans for extra generators, flywheel UPSs and water tanks into all commercial and residential projects that I have in mind. I was considering building a datacenter, but I think I will wait until the telecom wars are over and internet access prices even out, all the fiber is laid, and AccessKenya has spent all its cash on fiber, and maybe buy them out and restructure their debt ;)

As far as the downsides like traffic, bribes, power outages, bad cars, street boys, etc... sounds like Los Angeles, which is where I'm from. And in true Los Angelino fashion, I'll probably open a record label and recording studio just for fun when I touchdown in Nai. Maybe KenyanLyrics can help with with running that and recruiting talent.

@AliBaba thanks for the tax tip. I hear that you don't mess around with the KRA... you pay them, and on time, so I'll keep that in mind when calculating my returns.

@KenyanLyrics, Fair question. I am a Negro/Colored/Black/African American...Acata Technology Executive. Now if you had asked me my tribe, I would have been offended ;)



so before I was ever here, Jason Hill was already fake!
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