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Mobile price wars to derail new Constitution????
Rank: Elder Joined: 7/20/2007 Posts: 4,432
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Now Kisero is the best economist in the world? what would he say when he lands in the US and finds that a phone is free (not mulika mwizi), incalls are free, outcalls are in pennies, land calls are free within networks, you can use skype free, internet is more than 3 times cheaper, some networks even offer you free airtime when you move to their network etc etc. The problem with economists is that they talk too much. I still want someone to tell me which economic principle or law is being used to say that 1. Buying goods cheaper is a horrific nightmare for consumers that will cause the very destruction of a people and 2. Buying airtime cheaper is an affront to good political dispensation and a constitutional crisis that demands international diplomacy. Wacheni na hii micro-macro economics stuff. Tell me which economic principle says that a dominant and fleecing player in a market can destroy the lives of mama mboga if God forbid airtime came to 50cts per minute across all networks. hii ingine you discuss in safaricom boardrooms. Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/12/2006 Posts: 1,554
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@alma, I read you but you can never compare Kenya to the US not in economics,teleco,IT and thier related infrastracture.
Kisero is not the best economist he just gave his opinion, try read the whole extract in todays(19)nation, you will get answers to some of your questions above.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 12/9/2010 Posts: 894 Location: Nairobi
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Kaigangio wrote:Hi all i noted from here : http://www.nation.co.ke/...-/wnxn0ez/-/index.html, that the heated mobile phone price cutthroats might as well derail the implimentation of the new constitution...that is according to Bitange Ndomo. i thought the constitution implementation was a separate entity not bearing any relationship with the telecommunications sector...unless, of course, Ndomo is telling us that the short fall in the KRAs revenue collection target was meant to fund all the consitution implementation processes vide financial obligations and activities and that the funds were to be generated by mobile telecomms companies!!!NKT what is up your sleeve Ndomo??? could you come out clean!! any comment wazuas?? for such to come from a dr, is sad, how about reminding him to take milk after the puffs Don't wait for the Last Judgment. It happens every day. ~Albert Camus, The Fall, 1956
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/6/2008 Posts: 3,548
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@jamani Kenya is not u.s neither is it india. I was shocked that guys are getting 'free' calls and use this as a basis for debate on pricing. I will leave it to my granny to educate folk on 'free' things(and how you somehow pay for them) Trust such an idea to thrive in the u.s. Do they soon expect to get 'free' burgers? They have been really sliding on the dumb meter, asia passed them, europe and thanks Kenya seems on the way to passing them. Guys are so busy hunting for obamas birth certificate to think. The U.S has a rich history but a dumb present, dumb bankers selling mortgages to dumb clients that cant afford and dont want to think. They are busy eating away(literally) what their ancestors stored up. India is a story for another day. 'Free' things as debt is spiralling out of control. A New Kenya
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/20/2007 Posts: 4,432
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Is that the best the safcom idealist have. That Kenya is not India or America? Your argument was very simple. That the rates charged are impossible. The Collymore guy said "morally reprehensible". The other guy says it will destroy economies. I have challenged you very simply. Explain how lower prices mean that Kenyans will become a dysfunctional country because Safcom can't charge lower prices? It is my humble view that Kenya will survive if safaricom collapses tomorrow. I also propose that the Kenyan economy will not fail because prices are falling. I also propose that the days of supernormal profits are over and such companies will have to make do with normal profits in telcos the world over. I believe in the Kenyan spirit and no amount of brainwashing will allow me to believe that a country's destiny depends on if a telco can charge 50cts or give out free airtime. It will be a first in economics. So stop rehashing Michael Joseph. He said 3 bob a minute was impossible. Safcom still made profits. I say 50cts and Safcom will still make money. The alternative is the company dies a slow death and i can assure you, i and other kenyans will still find a way to survive. talk about brainwashing! Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/8/2008 Posts: 947
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Much Know wrote:@jamani Kenya is not u.s neither is it india. I was shocked that guys are getting 'free' calls and use this as a basis for debate on pricing. I will leave it to my granny to educate folk on 'free' things(and how you somehow pay for them)
Trust such an idea to thrive in the u.s. Do they soon expect to get 'free' burgers? They have been really sliding on the dumb meter, asia passed them, europe and thanks Kenya seems on the way to passing them. Guys are so busy hunting for obamas birth certificate to think. The U.S has a rich history but a dumb present, dumb bankers selling mortgages to dumb clients that cant afford and dont want to think. They are busy eating away(literally) what their ancestors stored up. India is a story for another day. 'Free' things as debt is spiralling out of control. Your grandmother should give google who provide search, youtube, and the best mail service free of charge to the end user but oops. Im sure you pay for it somehow. While she is at it she should also have a chat with yahoo, facebook, and twitter who are all making money providing service free to the end user. By the way most of these companies are by the "dumb" americans. @ All, If this prices are not sustainable then they will eventually revert to the sustainable prices? If thats the case live and let live. If you want to support the economy by paying 3 shillings hakuna shida I will stick to my Airtel line and preferably contacts ...... wooohoo!
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Rank: Member Joined: 7/11/2008 Posts: 401
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Rahatupu wrote:Is it not so clear that the money GoK earns from:
1. Fuel industry
2. Telecom sector
3. EABL
Constitute the bulk of taxes/revenue that accrues directly to the coffers? It is just coincidental that when one mentions telecoms sector in Kenya the next word in the sentence most likely would be Safaricom? So to be objective treasury will suffer. For the technocrats at treasury, a new source will have to be sought to plug the deficit maybe they tax me and you more.
Happy New Year folks. Interesting discussion. I thought I'd add some statistics so we continue this discussion from a position of knowledge. According to Q1 (July - Sep 2010) KRA revenue performance report (http://www.kra.go.ke/notices/pdf2010/REVENUE-PERFORMANCE-REPORT-July_sep2010.pdf) the breakdown of tax collections is as follows: Customs Services -36.5% Road Transport - 0.5% and Domestic Taxes - 63% The breakdown of Domestic Taxes is as follows:- Petroleum - 10.7% Trade - 24.8% Indirect Domestic (mostly VAT) - 22.7% Direct Domestic (Mostly PAYE) - 40.1% Fees & licenses - 1.6% So the top 4 areas of collection are 1. Customs Services - 36.5% 2. P.A.Y.E - 25.2% 3. Trade - 15.6% 4. VAT - 14.3% So to answer you Rahatupu it is not so clear after all.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/6/2008 Posts: 3,548
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Tonystark, the u.s still has some of the best resources(including smart people and education like the ones giving out 'free' things) but the semi-literates, idlers, lazy porn actors, strippers, gangstars, wannabe entertainers, obese unhealthy folk, junkees, illegals and so on are exploding and outdoing the few resources including reserves/historically built up resources. A New Kenya
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/13/2011 Posts: 5,964
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I salute all the fellow new age Pan Africans on this topic. Down with Western propaganda & brain washing! Why aren't they sayng how i'll use the savings on othr taxed products and or development ventures? Shindwe!!
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Rank: Member Joined: 8/29/2008 Posts: 571
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MUCH KNOW & CO: The jury is out.CCK defends Airtel.Please use your energy in other areas which can develop our economy instead of arguing why we should pay higher for phone calls just to enrich a few disgruntled Safaricom shareholders.Better still SAFCON shareholders can go ....jump into the lake!!
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 4/16/2010 Posts: 906 Location: Nairobi
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Safaricom, Kibaki and the archbishop can all disappear tomorrow. We will still survive and implement the new constitution
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,098 Location: Nairobi
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Much Know wrote:The example of distributors troubles in today’s Daily Nation is a good example of decline in spending at micro-economic levels. To impute that spending does not spur economic growth is absurd. To say that money “saved” from reduced demand driven spending on mobile calls from a bustling sturdy Kes 150billion industry and economic arm will automatically be directed to another (make me buy more tomatoes, sodas, beer e.t.c) is simply nonsense and quite dim-witted. As Kenyatta said, ignorance is anyone’s principal foe as it is clearly being illustrated here. This is a huge industry with a huge economic impact if you have ever bothered to listen to any recent report on Kenya’s economic growth.
Note, apart from distributors, agents, retailers (shopkeepers)and so on, there will be a knock on effect to advertising, then to media, newspaper vendors, gamblers (who see sense in sending 70/- sms’s to 6969 but not in buying airtime to communicate), to internet and I.T, electronics and many other areas. The funny thing is within a country; all economic activities are somewhat interconnected, that’s why tourism growth/fall for example affects all and sundry not just hotels. Add this to reduced taxes then you might get a clearer picture of what is unfolding, then add the drought to this and the back office jobs (from accountants to hawkers) that airtel has transferred to India (which some here celebrate) and maybe the blind might begin to see what is ahead. Battles for economic survival have to be fought from all fronts.
What of investment and interest rates, which affect economic growth, what does this drop in spending portend? When people demand stuff (100 Billion in airtime), someone has to stock this airtime, distribute e.t.c. These people several times need financing for stock, vehicles, salaries, which banks give, because it will be easily recovered, but because of the high demand for credit by these investors (traders/distributors/advertisers), the rates fall as banks compete, the banks make money. But when the 90billion spending slows, borrowing drops, banks raise rates, more people default banks put their money in government securities and government starts cutting rates to spur spending which has been reduced by a major drop in economic activity, to dot. Economies do not grow out of a vacuum, this one will hit all. Ndemo is right, Muganda is right, Chaliwong is right, Collymore is right (ni masomo).
What a load of CRAP... 1) Safaricom/Airtel/Orange/Yu is NOT Kenya... Kenya is NOT Safaricom/Airtel/Orange/Yu... [Kenya's largest 'earner' is agriculture. I would rather give a farmer a minimum price before anyone else] 2) Yes, the cash I save NOT using safaricom WILL go to other uses including savings, investments or expenditure. I do NOT keep cash under my mattress so this 'saved cash' is circulated. 3) Many businesses in the 'sales' industry can expand their reach with cheaper calls. Airtel has cut prices to UK, USA, India & China. All these are either import or [even more important] export markets for us! Using clear calls by Airtel is much better for our BPO firms! Many (better) paying jobs there! Plus value chain. 4) KRA/GoK is NOT a REVENUE GENERATOR. Heck, most GoK owned businesses LOSE money! Have you seen how many mercs & 4-wheel drive cars with GK plates around Prestige, Junction, Westgate, Sarit Centre & Village Market? Telkom/KPTC was a shithole... 5) Bob-call-me-more says Safaricom's Kenyan jobs will be lost. Ask him how much these employees are paid vs MJ+BC salaries+bonuses? [The top execs make millions at Safaricom. Many are expats.] Let's in-source BC's job! 6) I know how to spend my 1/- better than ANY government employee. If Safaricom is supported then every firm/shop/factory/farmer in the country can say 'we want minimum prices no matter how crappy our product is' 7) I see 'free' calls in the future. What I mean is unlimited calls for a Fixed Fee. It has happened in the USA. Yes, Kenya is not the USA but they are very innovative. For that idiot claiming Kenya will catch up with the USA soon... I love Kenya but I am a realist. The USA has far better infrastructure than we do. It will take us 25+ yrs to get to the level they have in 2010. Most people in the USA do not starve like they do in Kenya. Heck, they are FAT... but not stick thin! Have you ever heard of 11% of the USA population starving in the past 50 years? For all their faults, I admire the American spirit. It is a can do spirit. Very few (as % of the population) have the 'tunaomba serikali' attitude. Finally, the internet [gasp, what you are using], many of the computer technologies/firms [Intel, Apple, ARM, Windows], phone chips[ qualcomm], phone technologies/firms [Motorola, Apple] etc were designed/invented in the USA. And they continue doing so! Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,098 Location: Nairobi
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How your tax money is being spent http://www.businessdaily.../-/mc9g79z/-/index.html
“Unfortunately, most of these employees have no major role to play in these authorities,” Regional Development minister Fred Gumo" Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/8/2008 Posts: 947
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VituVingiSana wrote:
1) Safaricom/Airtel/Orange/Yu is NOT Kenya... Kenya is NOT Safaricom/Airtel/Orange/Yu... [Kenya's largest 'earner' is agriculture. I would rather give a farmer a minimum price before anyone else]
Discussion settled. Stop advocating for increased calling rates and advocate for increased prices for maize and veges. For all it's worth safaricom propaganda machine is amazing. It has a huge chunk of people convinced that paying more for their calls is their national duty to protect this country!!! Mimi siko na safaricom ..... Siko na
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 4/16/2010 Posts: 906 Location: Nairobi
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tony stark wrote:
For all it's worth safaricom propaganda machine is amazing. It has a huge chunk of people convinced that paying more for their calls is their national duty to protect this country!!!
Most of all, smart Wazuans. I am so disappointed in certain 'Veterans' 
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/26/2007 Posts: 6,514
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Much Know wrote:@jamani Kenya is not u.s neither is it india. I was shocked that guys are getting 'free' calls and use this as a basis for debate on pricing. I will leave it to my granny to educate folk on 'free' things(and how you somehow pay for them)
Trust such an idea to thrive in the u.s. Do they soon expect to get 'free' burgers? They have been really sliding on the dumb meter, asia passed them, europe and thanks Kenya seems on the way to passing them. Guys are so busy hunting for obamas birth certificate to think. The U.S has a rich history but a dumb present, dumb bankers selling mortgages to dumb clients that cant afford and dont want to think. They are busy eating away(literally) what their ancestors stored up. India is a story for another day. 'Free' things as debt is spiralling out of control. But I dont understand why you safcom sycophants are panicking? Airtel is not the dominant player, so that means the majority of Kenyans are still paying 3 bob. Just a small minority of smart ones pay 1 bob. Whats wrong with that? Business opportunities are like buses,there's always another one coming
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Rank: Member Joined: 7/7/2008 Posts: 124
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Frankly speaking Bob is in panic mode because soon.... and by the way he is taking too long,will be issuing a profit warning and the SAFCOM share will tumble to a bob!But on the bigger picture,if Safcom sticks to doing what it knows best..voice,data and Mpesa it has nothing to worry about.Am in Airtel but have no one to call at a bob.They are all in Safcom... my spouse included with her two safcon lines!!You never know a service provider could also be suicidal!!!
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Rank: Member Joined: 7/11/2008 Posts: 401
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VituVingiSana wrote:
1) Safaricom/Airtel/Orange/Yu is NOT Kenya... Kenya is NOT Safaricom/Airtel/Orange/Yu... [Kenya's largest 'earner' is agriculture. I would rather give a farmer a minimum price before anyone else]
While agriculture maybe Kenya's largest employer and earner (sic), if the government does not collect taxes from the sector then it will not be used towards expenditure. Agriculture contributes to the exchequer indirectly through VAT, PAYE and duty on agricultural imports. Thank God that there is no confusion in the regulator's mind about the price cuts from Airtel. http://www.businessdaily...0/-/xouala/-/index.html
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/27/2010 Posts: 324 Location: nrb
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To those passionately defending safcon - and you are not employees, agents/distributors, just sell your safcon shares and you will suddenly see things very differently.
trust me, I did it at the beginning of current airtel onslaught, and there was such a gush of cool refreshing angle to my perception of this matter.
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Rank: Member Joined: 9/12/2009 Posts: 312
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alikujia wrote:To those passionately defending safcon - and you are not employees, agents/distributors, just sell your safcon shares and you will suddenly see things very differently.
trust me, I did it at the beginning of current airtel onslaught, and there was such a gush of cool refreshing angle to my perception of this matter. Pray then My dear Wazuans, who are these "dumb" investors who don't see the foreclosure of Safcom?? Its for ever topping the charts with the highest number of shares traded daily. Jana it traded a whole 34 millions volume! Surely they must be looking at the picture from a different angle.
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