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Manifest Nonsense!!!!
Rank: Elder Joined: 2/7/2007 Posts: 11,935 Location: Nairobi
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Arguing the cases out here makes splitting hair unless the judges are right here. Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/7/2007 Posts: 11,935 Location: Nairobi
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Arguing the cases out here is splitting hair unless the judges are right here.....wacheni kelele and let the suspects go in silence!. Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm.
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Rank: Member Joined: 8/8/2009 Posts: 170
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Kusadikika wrote:Forget the politics, forget your feelings about who you think is guilty or not. Look at the merits of this case from the eyes of a judge sitting in the Hague and who does not know whether Kenya is in Nairobi or Nairobi is in Kenya, does not know who ODM or PNU are and has never heard of Ruto, Uhuru, Muthaura, Sang, Kosgey or Ali and you will agree that the case this Moreno fellow has presented is manifest nonsense. The incompetence exhibited here by this individual is shocking to say the least. I had my doubts about him from the beginning when he could not express himself clearly in English but I gave him the benefit of the doubt thinking that maybe he thought more clearly in his native Spanish but alas the dumbness in him is real. I am no Lawyer but I remember having discussions with Law students and even an average 2nd year Law Student at Parklands will tell you that this: http://www.icc-cpi.int/iccdocs/doc/doc985613.pdf
http://www.icc-cpi.int/iccdocs/doc/doc985621.pdf
is rubbish. This kind of presentation would not pass a 2nd year Law exam leave alone be fit for presentation to an international court. This man is a disgrace to the ICC. He would not light a candle to such prosecutors as Carla Del Ponte of the United Nations Criminal Tribunal for Yugoslavia and Rwanda. If the judges accept this and issue summons it will just confirm to my mind that this ICC thing is just a circus because from a serious judicial process it is embarassingly substandard. The lady doth protest too much, methinks; This is the "Public Redacted Version of Document ICC‐01/09‐30‐Conf‐Exp" * re·dact Verb /riˈdakt/ o verb: redacting present participle; redacts 3rd person singular present; redacted past tense; redacted past participle 1. Edit (text) for publication
2. Censor or obscure (part of a text) for legal or security purposes
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/20/2008 Posts: 367
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drake wrote:Kusadikika wrote:Forget the politics, forget your feelings about who you think is guilty or not. Look at the merits of this case from the eyes of a judge sitting in the Hague and who does not know whether Kenya is in Nairobi or Nairobi is in Kenya, does not know who ODM or PNU are and has never heard of Ruto, Uhuru, Muthaura, Sang, Kosgey or Ali and you will agree that the case this Moreno fellow has presented is manifest nonsense. The incompetence exhibited here by this individual is shocking to say the least. I had my doubts about him from the beginning when he could not express himself clearly in English but I gave him the benefit of the doubt thinking that maybe he thought more clearly in his native Spanish but alas the dumbness in him is real. I am no Lawyer but I remember having discussions with Law students and even an average 2nd year Law Student at Parklands will tell you that this: http://www.icc-cpi.int/iccdocs/doc/doc985613.pdf
http://www.icc-cpi.int/iccdocs/doc/doc985621.pdf
is rubbish. This kind of presentation would not pass a 2nd year Law exam leave alone be fit for presentation to an international court. This man is a disgrace to the ICC. He would not light a candle to such prosecutors as Carla Del Ponte of the United Nations Criminal Tribunal for Yugoslavia and Rwanda. If the judges accept this and issue summons it will just confirm to my mind that this ICC thing is just a circus because from a serious judicial process it is embarassingly substandard. The lady doth protest too much, methinks; This is the "Public Redacted Version of Document ICC‐01/09‐30‐Conf‐Exp" * re·dact Verb /riˈdakt/ o verb: redacting present participle; redacts 3rd person singular present; redacted past tense; redacted past participle 1. Edit (text) for publication
2. Censor or obscure (part of a text) for legal or security purposes Let's wait and see, no need to be misguided by emotions. Personally, I think he is what this swamp of corruption called Kenya needs.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/6/2008 Posts: 3,548
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Kalenjin PNU supporters were killed, Kalenjins who tried to help Kikuyus were killed, where does that leave the argument that PNU/ODM be replaced with Kikuyu/Kalenjin? I think Ocampo has thought this through ODM/PNU is more indicative of the scenario, tribe would cause too many distortions. A New Kenya
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 10/8/2008 Posts: 1,575
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Njung'e wrote:Arguing the cases out here is splitting hair unless the judges are right here.....wacheni kelele and let the suspects go in silence!. HOT AIR! I care!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/20/2007 Posts: 4,432
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@Njunge, Kweli kabisa I wonder if attacking a prosecutor is a valid legal maneuver that 2nd year students at parklands are taught. This is even funnier than me being asked to raise funds for these people. HA! Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2009 Posts: 26,328 Location: Masada
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Put your foot in the suspect's shoes please! Portfolio: Sold
You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 10/9/2006 Posts: 1,502
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 Kenya is a failed state. work to prosper
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/19/2010 Posts: 3,504 Location: Uganda
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Everyone now agrees with me , Ocampo is the best thing to happen in Kenya.See the panic among the top thieves, murderers, arsonists and rapists.I watch my TV screen and have a feeling that we have the wrong guests at Kamiti Maximum Prison. Talk of vomiting to our shoes . MY ANGER LEVEL IS INCREASING. punda amecheka
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 12/4/2009 Posts: 1,982 Location: matano manne
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The heat is cooling off. By early next year the debate will be more sober than emotional. Those calling for disbandment of KNHRC, withdrawal of Kenya from ICC should as well call for dissolution of all our courts, right from Kadhi's (including Njuri nchekes etc), Magistracy, High Court etc. In short we should suspend the constitution, withdraw from the UN, EAC, all treaties, and dissolve all governance institutions. This will enable us to revert to the Hobbesian State of "war" "....and such a war as is of every man against every man" without the hindrances and sanity provided for by these institutions. We ought also to throw out through the widow the Lockian logic of Reason: That "no one ought to harm another in his life, health, liberty or possessions"; and that transgressions of this may be punished. Only when we are done with the slaughtering, raping,and all other transgression against each shall we rediscover true sanity and need for respect of our institutions of government. I am disgusted!
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 10/29/2008 Posts: 1,566
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Rahatupu wrote:The heat is cooling off. By early next year the debate will be more sober than emotional. Those calling for disbandment of KNHRC, withdrawal of Kenya from ICC should as well call for dissolution of all our courts, right from Kadhi's (including Njuri nchekes etc), Magistracy, High Court etc. In short we should suspend the constitution, withdraw from the UN, EAC, all treaties, and dissolve all governance institutions. This will enable us to revert to the Hobbesian State of "war" "....and such a war as is of every man against every man" without the hindrances and sanity provided for by these institutions. We ought also to throw out through the widow the Lockian logic of Reason: That "no one ought to harm another in his life, health, liberty or possessions"; and that transgressions of this may be punished. Only when we are done with the slaughtering, raping,and all other transgression against each shall we rediscover true sanity and need for respect of our institutions of government. I am disgusted! I hear you and identify with your very legitimate concerns albeit emotional. It is pointless to start drumming for withdrawal from ICC. In fact it even wont help the cause of those who so advocate, - that of cushioning their buddies from going through the ICC process. We cannot be seeking to change laws every time our buddy is inconvenienced. We must always think of the larger good that is/will be served by the law. Having said that, I think we should also understand those people who are dissatisfied with Ocampos handling of the KENYAN SITUATION. It is quite in order for people to feel that justice will not be done given the route Ocampo has taken. Remember the age old maxim that - justice should not only be done, but also be seen to be done. Some in our number may have issues with certain omissions and inclusions in Ocampos list. Again it is in order for people to hold the view that Ocampos presentation of his case to the Judges as seen in the net ,is clumsy, lousy and problematic. That way he has unwittingly created an escape route for suspects who should otherwise be found culpable. Isuni yilu yi maa me muyo - ni Mbisuu
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Rank: Elder Joined: 8/11/2010 Posts: 1,588
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Impunity wrote:Put your foot in the suspect's shoes please! I would crawl back to my hole under that rock in my homestead. And never speak again. Ever! 
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,821 Location: Nairobi
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@muchknow, were kikuyu's who voted for ODM spared? All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/29/2006 Posts: 2,570
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Ocampo has learnt alot of 50:50 power sharing(&perfected it) and by balancing between PNU and ODM suspects he is sending a clear msg;tukubaliane sote tuko na makosa. Unless the prosecutor is recruited from among the IDPs! we are just buying time for reconcilliation the african style. The opposite of courage is not cowardice, it's conformity.
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