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The Ocampo Six must relinguish their posts Immediately
Rank: Veteran Joined: 10/17/2008 Posts: 1,234
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Ngalaka wrote:Strictly folowing the law Kibaki is right.
That
The suspected have ONLY/MERELY been pronounced by the prosecutor as individuals who he "THINKS" should be indicted by the court.
The prosecutors thinking, FOR NOW remains just that.
The Court may disagree with him. However, when/if the court agrees with him that there are grounds enough to sustain prosecution then at that point the suspects have to leave any public office they hold.
Having said that though, morality and good culturedness naturally dictates that once an office as weighty as that of ICC public prosecutor names you as a suspect that they have requested the court to consider indicting - you ought to step aside. If cleared, well...
By remaining in office with such an heavy cloud hanging over you, bwana, even public confidence in you is messed up!
In places where people respect public office, no such thing is imaginable!
@Kadonye
You know I agree with you over the falling short(LONG) of Ocampos list.
There are certain enigmas who shouldnt have missed in that list - unless of course they have secret warrants on them released quietly to avoid the OBVIOUS back lash from the fanatics/matyrs.
Inclusion of some names suprised me too but, IF Ocampo has ENOUGH grounds, na iwe.
On the police matter, again I agree with your view point.
We EQUIP the police with guns and bullets to be used WHEN the situation so demands.
Tell me if the scenes we saw during PEV didnt so warrant, then what EVER does.
May be we should NEVER waste money buying guns and bullets for the police!
However, this is not to say that there werent some rogue officers who acted in bad faith and harmed and or killed innocent people without good justification. Such officers should face the laws as individuals.
Ngalaka, you have spoken in a most sober manner kama wazee kumi.
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 6/7/2010 Posts: 52 Location: mumu humu
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No,MPigs don't make laws,they pass the laws we the citizens,upon who power rests,tell them to.Thus,any attempt to evade the Rome Statute is null & void,as that is part of our constitution now,and if they dare bring it to us in a referendum,we will return a 90% NO!! Vote to such change.Let the dogs have their day in ICC.
Let them rant & rave in that house.Let them know we hold them by their words.Let them know we hear those who wish murderers protected & not taken to court.Let them know that 2012 beckons,and let them know they shall not see the light of any elective position then.Let them know we judge them by their words.Harshly.They speak like apes who've never seen the inside of a classroom.Let them know we know them now.
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Rank: Member Joined: 12/6/2009 Posts: 108 Location: nairobi
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My problem with this ocampo character is lack of spine.If he is so scared about the backlash if he named the real culprits the he has no business being a prosecutor.we didn't ask for any blood,we wanted for blood of the responsible thugs.How do you equate arsonists with firefighters,Ali's job description was to maintain peace,where are those that swore to disrupt peace.And before you shout excessive force,do you know how many police officers got killed during the PEV. In Ali's testimony when asked whether he could have done anything different,he answered in the negative;he saved lives and for this he got indicted-this is what i call warped thinking. what is the name given to the maasai youth-morans what is the name given to the kikuyu youth-mungiki.I rest my case. if you aint livin on the edge,you are taking too much space....
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/19/2010 Posts: 3,504 Location: Uganda
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People keep of talking about local tribunal. We have courts had courts since 2007 and before ,how many PEV suspects have been arrested , tried and imprisoned so far .Are we going to import Judges to oversee the tribunal or are we going to use the same local Lawyers and Judges who have failed to deliver justice to PEV victims? isnt the local tribunal a waste of our taxes ? why cant we use our courts , if we are short of judges , why cant we hire more from the jobless lawyers around? punda amecheka
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Rank: Elder Joined: 5/24/2007 Posts: 1,805
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My 2 pence, I too was shocked at the inclusion and exclusion of some names and was very happy some were there. However, these guys are still innocent. It is upto Ocampo to prove his choice of people. I get the stange feeling that he will not be able to prove some cases. To me, I think ALI did a great job. He was the right man for the job. The situation called for such intervention. I wish though, that he had acted to pre-empt the chaos based on the NSIS report. The question to me is not whether he acted in some areas and did not act in others, but whether he was required to act where he did.Unless we are judging him for failure to meet perfection. I Think Therefore I Am
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Rank: Elder Joined: 5/30/2009 Posts: 1,390
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I tried to reason on another thread with guys over Ali and I was called unsavoury words. Let me make myself clear on my thoughts on Ali. If he issued orders to his juniors to kill anyone they see in the streets of Kisumu, Kericho or Kibera, then Ocampo is right. But if he authorised his people to shoot when necessary,then Ocampo is wrong.By the way for those shouting excessive force, please understand that shooting robbers, arsonists,armed murderous thugs is not excessive force, it is justifiable force. What a wicked man I am!The things I want to do,I don't do.The things I don't want to do I find myself doing
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Rank: Elder Joined: 5/30/2009 Posts: 1,390
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Can you compare the violence in these towns with violence in pro-ODM regions?FYI, violence in Kikuyu was stopped.In Limuru, some 3 thugs (locals) were shot dead by police as they participated in looting.The Waki report records this fact Apple Bees wrote:Ali is a hero? So why did he order his men not to SHOOT when people were being murdered in Naivasha, Limuru or Kikuyu? Why did the ARMY step in, in Naivasha? Where was the police? Or their bullets had run out after spending them in Kisumu, Kakamega and Kibera. Ali had a specific task- order officers to shoot to KILL in SPECIFIC areas.We should not celebrate just because those who were killed by the police were not from our tribe or those killed by warriors were from the other tribe. Fact is, Kenyans lost, and a seed of hatred was planted (or germinated). How do we get away from this? What a wicked man I am!The things I want to do,I don't do.The things I don't want to do I find myself doing
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Rank: Member Joined: 10/27/2010 Posts: 266 Location: Nairobi
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Methinks Ali's inclusion is deserved. During an interview hosted by Beatrice Marshall a week to the election, Ali warned civilians not to turn up at KICC during and after the vote count. His exact words..."there will be fatalities" betrays murderous intent towards a certain group.
This statement IMO is a guaranteed ticket to the Hague.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/19/2010 Posts: 3,504 Location: Uganda
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I told you guys .Lets shout until the 6 are out of office. They are having the guards to ask for Harambee for the Hague legal fees because they think they are too important to be out of office ,Without them , there is no Kenya .They are the most important IMMORTALS in this country . No other mother has ever given birth to a person who can fill their offices. So they think and some of us here are BEHIND them. My message to them : do us a favor , commit suicide Japanese style. That is the only remaining honourable option. Daily Nation's Gaitho has a better treatment for them too: Perpetrators of post-election carnage should be hung, drawn and quartered http://www.nation.co.ke/...t/-/fb9omz/-/index.html
punda amecheka
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 10/29/2008 Posts: 1,566
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newfarer wrote:I told you guys .Lets shout until the 6 are out of office. They are having the guards to ask for Harambee for the Hague legal fees because they think they are too important to be out of office ,Without them , there is no Kenya .They are the most important IMMORTALS in this country . No other mother has ever given birth to a person who can fill their offices. So they think and some of us here are BEHIND them. My message to them : do us a favor , commit suicide Japanese style. That is the only remaining honourable option. Daily Nation's Gaitho has a better treatment for them too: Perpetrators of post-election carnage should be hung, drawn and quartered http://www.nation.co.ke/...t/-/fb9omz/-/index.html
True! Perpetuaters of PEV deserve no mercy. However we must bear in mind that there are MANY pepetuaters out there that Ocampo has not targeted. Amongst the six, there could be innocent persons too! However I agree decency dictates that those who hold public office vacate it until such a time that they are cleared. Isuni yilu yi maa me muyo - ni Mbisuu
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/19/2010 Posts: 3,504 Location: Uganda
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By the way why is a suspect(UK) still taking care of public coffers , My taxes, one month down the line? How sure are we that our tax isnt been slowly pilfered to cater for the legal expenses? say Kshs 2 million typo per day means before the year end we have the Kshs500million for the legal fees? The 6 suspects must not hold public office at least For now. punda amecheka
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Rank: Member Joined: 7/6/2010 Posts: 170 Location: Kenya Tukufu
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It seems they will continue being in office no what how much kenyan call for their resignation...March sio mbali when the judges are expected to make their ruling.. Hardwork, Smartness & Humility = Successful and Happy life...Jipange sasa hivi
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/19/2010 Posts: 3,504 Location: Uganda
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while the 6 remain in office until they are jailed? punda amecheka
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/19/2010 Posts: 3,504 Location: Uganda
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I said it here. Ocampo six should step aside to deal with the problem they created on themselves. .See the neglect on the Economy . Shilling has dropped from 80 since ocampos announcement to 105.a 31% drop. Price of commudities have been going up and nobody cares. No sugar in the shelves . Where is the civil society. Uhuru has missed crucial finance ministers meeting to attend to personal matters at the Hague. punda amecheka
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/28/2006 Posts: 1,799
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newfarer wrote:I said it here. Ocampo six should step aside to deal with the problem they created on themselves. .See the neglect on the Economy . Shilling has dropped from 80 since ocampos announcement to 105.a 31% drop.
Price of commudities have been going up and nobody cares.
No sugar in the shelves .
Where is the civil society.
Uhuru has missed crucial finance ministers meeting to attend to personal matters at the Hague.
wewe uko nyuma aje? hujui hizi shida zote ni agwambo ameleta sio hao suspects..
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