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QUANTITY SURVEYOR
swaweru
#1 Posted : Wednesday, November 17, 2010 12:04:53 AM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 11/15/2010
Posts: 11
Location: kenya
What do quantity surveyors do?

Quantity Surveyors estimate and manage the cost of construction
throughout a project. Their responsibilities begin at the planning stage
and continue through the construction period. They interpret
architectural or engineering drawings and specifications to calculate
project costs. During the building stage, they monitor expenses and
check on changes in the design of the project, to see whether costs will
be affected. They also provide monthly cash-flow forecasts to their
client and may organise the amount and timing of payments to
contractors. Quantity Surveyors work in partnership with architects,
engineers, builders, contractors, suppliers and project owners.

Be sure to involve a registered QUANTITY SURVEYOR in any construction projects you wish to undertake!
mwenza
#2 Posted : Wednesday, November 17, 2010 9:32:34 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 4/22/2009
Posts: 2,863
As i have told many before you.....This is the wrong forum to look for PJs. Thankfully, you are a new-farer.
IF YOU EXPECT ME TO POST ANYTHING POSITIVE ABOUT ASENO, YOU MAY AS WELL SIT ON A PIN
Litro
#3 Posted : Wednesday, November 17, 2010 1:01:01 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 7/22/2009
Posts: 120
Location: KENYA
Thanks Mwenza....I have also insisted that this is the wrong forum to look for PJ's...Its least to say unethical. Incidentally, i wouldn't give you one. Remember ' chema chajiuza, kibaya cha jitembeza'?
mwenza
#4 Posted : Wednesday, November 17, 2010 1:14:23 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 4/22/2009
Posts: 2,863
Litro wrote:
Thanks Mwenza....I have also insisted that this is the wrong forum to look for PJ's...Its least to say unethical. Incidentally, i wouldn't give you one. Remember ' chema chajiuza, kibaya cha jitembeza'?



............Not to mention that
1) It gives the profession/industry a bad name.
2) Its against the provisions of Cap.530 and Cap.525(for those engineers of a like mind).
IF YOU EXPECT ME TO POST ANYTHING POSITIVE ABOUT ASENO, YOU MAY AS WELL SIT ON A PIN
Kaigangio
#5 Posted : Wednesday, November 17, 2010 1:51:10 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/27/2007
Posts: 2,768
@ swaweru,

although the quantity surveyor is always given too much attention, i would say that it is the most redudant profession and the most unneeded person in a development project....

the QS's work in a development project or construction is being the custodian of the performance bonds from the contractors and sometimes contract agreements drawn between the clients and the contractors and nothing else. This could as well be done by a lawyer.

Let us analyse your purpoted duties and responsibilities as you have described:


Quantity Surveyors estimate and manage the cost of construction throughout a project. The construction can still be done without any input from the QS as the designers (architects, civil/structural engineers and electrical/mechanical engineers can do their own costings and manage/monitor the construction financially to completion.

Their responsibilities begin at the planning stage and continue through the construction period....QSs are not designers and have little clue on what design is all about. they rely entirely on the architect and engineers for information related to design, without whom the QS is just as good as dead.

They interpret architectural or engineering drawings and specifications to calculate
project costs.
. the QSs have a rough idea on the measurements of obvious quantities only like the stone walls, doors windows, the ceiling and excavations.QSs cannot carry out measurements of structural, electrical and mechanical works. In fact a QS cannot interprete the structural, electrical and mechanical engineers drawings and neither can they do specifications unless they edit bills of quantities done by others(engineers).

During the building stage, they monitor expenses and check on changes in the design of the project, to see whether costs will
be affected
. Again this is something that can acurately be done by the engineers. Computation of variations and appraisals included.

They also provide monthly cash-flow forecasts to their client and may organise the amount and timing of payments to contractors. the cashflow information that the QS receives from the civil/structural and services engineers forms the basis for their advice to the client. This is actually duplication of effort. The engineers can do their cashflow predictions with precision accuracy and also compute the valuations based on the actual value of works done by the contractors. Again here the QS is not necessary.

Quantity Surveyors work in partnership with architects,engineers, builders, contractors, suppliers and project owners. As explained above the role of a QS is reduced to zero and may not be required in any construction.

i believe that QSs are paid so much for doing nothing! Come to think of it rationally.
...besides, the presence of a safe alone does not signify that there is money inside...
swaweru
#6 Posted : Wednesday, November 24, 2010 9:34:12 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 11/15/2010
Posts: 11
Location: kenya
@mwenza/litro funny how some react to forums. who asked for a PJ? please read my posting again.
are you suggesting I am not aware of CAP 525?? unethical?? what are you talking about?? I am offended by your insinuation that I am unethical.

@Kaigangio-- i loved your concerns about the role of the QS. Way too harsh on the QS's, many QS's have delved into specialist M&E and even roads. QS's are very good at interpreting structural drawings,perhaps on that point you onead them.
QS's are also highly skilled in contract management providing valuable inputs in claims management. They have a lot to offer.
I

fresher2010
#7 Posted : Thursday, November 25, 2010 9:02:43 AM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 10/26/2010
Posts: 34
Location: Nairobi
Kaigangio- i doubt you are an architect or an engineer, my bet is you are a Project Manager.i dont want to come out as offensive, but i doubt universities world wide would be dumb enough to offer a redudant course, i doubt corparates would use the services of QS if they didnt need one.i dont think banks would be dumb enough to ask for bills of quantities from registered QS.it takes 4 years for one to finish a QSing degree, 2 more years of work experience then another exam, both witten and oral to be registered as one.lets say we wanted the Architect or teh Engineer to do the work of the QS.so add those 4 years to the 6 of the architect, or the 5 of an engineer, so guess how much they would charge you for their services. just ask a registered architect or engineer to prepare a BQ or do the services of a QS in a building project you will hear their response.

i think you should respect the services offered by the QS and other professions, its like saying the doctor doesnt need a nurse cause he can do all that work on his own.or a firm doesnt need a marketing department cause they have a sales department. or a finance department cause they have an accounts dept...hope you get my drift.

in my humble opinion, i think we dont need a project manager in a building project, that is if all the consultants did all they were required to. i am yet to come across a fully competent and ethical PM. The QS & Architect should be doing what the PM does!!

@swaweru, please be careful not to go against CAP 525, though marketing yourself within the allowed scope in accordance to the practice notes is in order.
Jamaa wa mjengo
hawkeye
#8 Posted : Thursday, November 25, 2010 11:43:12 AM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 11/12/2010
Posts: 4
Location: Nairobi
@kaigangio, sometimes it helps to do some researsch before rushing to dismiss something beforehand, quantity surveying as a profession will be here to stay, and is not about to become redundant , personally i think theconstruction indusr=try is the most invol,ving and hence the high number of professional involved in any one project, An architect is a specialist in design , a structural enginneer is an expert in structures and their stability , service engineer i.e electrical and mechanical are experts in servicing the building in terms of drainage water supply, power and lighting , data , mnobility,.
you can imagine the amount of time each of the professional mentioned put in their role, u need someone to specialise in generate the costof a building and coordinate the tender procedure and that is QS FOR YOU. AND MIND YOU THE QS IS THE LAST MAN ON A CONSTRUCTION PROJECT HE WILL HAVE TO PREPARE THE FINAL ACCOUNT
swaweru
#9 Posted : Thursday, November 25, 2010 1:43:41 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 11/15/2010
Posts: 11
Location: kenya
@fresher2010..thanks for your comments. still at loss as to where I marketed myself.
From what I can see the post has brought interesting comments.
The industry is working on formalising the qualifications of project managers. The AAK has a Chapter now and you will meet many competent and ethical PM's in future.

hawkeye
#10 Posted : Thursday, November 25, 2010 2:26:49 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 11/12/2010
Posts: 4
Location: Nairobi
@kaigangio, sometimes it helps to do some researsch before rushing to dismiss something beforehand, quantity surveying as a profession will be here to stay, and is not about to become redundant , personally i think theconstruction indusr=try is the most invol,ving and hence the high number of professional involved in any one project, An architect is a specialist in design , a structural enginneer is an expert in structures and their stability , service engineer i.e electrical and mechanical are experts in servicing the building in terms of drainage water supply, power and lighting , data , mnobility,.
you can imagine the amount of time each of the professional mentioned put in their role, u need someone to specialise in generate the costof a building and coordinate the tender procedure and that is QS FOR YOU. AND MIND YOU THE QS IS THE LAST MAN ON A CONSTRUCTION PROJECT HE WILL HAVE TO PREPARE THE FINAL ACCOUNT
Kaigangio
#11 Posted : Thursday, November 25, 2010 2:40:57 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/27/2007
Posts: 2,768
@ fresher 2010,

Look at it this way…a developer conceives an idea which is translated into a space development. Now, this is achieved through the involvement of an architect who produces the various options of the plans taking into consideration the available space. The treatment of these options generates the optimum plan….when the architectural plans are done, the civil/structural and services engineers do their designs. The overall cost of the development is actually derived from the engineers’ designs. The QS so far has no input in the designs.

Here is my contention:

Since the civil/structural, electrical and mechanical engineers are the physical product designers, they are best suited to do the specifications and the overall bills of quantities documentation which would be sufficiently accurate. The question is, why would we need a QS to do what can be done by the product design originators?

@ hawkeye,

I concur with you that the amount of man-hours that goes into the designs and the general contract administration is massive. However, you have still not told me why the absence of a QS in a construction project would stall the project.
...besides, the presence of a safe alone does not signify that there is money inside...
FundamentAli
#12 Posted : Thursday, November 25, 2010 3:56:47 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/4/2008
Posts: 1,289
Location: Nairobi
@Kaigangio

Do you real trust lawyers to do anything for you? Those guys are of a different mindset. It is better to have an expert in an industry dealing with the legal aspect of their specialist than to involve a lawyer who will understand nothing,will need guidance for every single step, might come up with his own interpretations, is very lazy, has the wrong attitude and dresses in a suit which is odd for sites. If you want to ask yourself 'How did I get into all this?', hire a lawyer.
fantony
#13 Posted : Thursday, November 25, 2010 9:50:34 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/6/2006
Posts: 276
I am in the construction industry with degrees and all.. i am actually a project manager.. not a QS.

The statement indicated above by one kaigangio is the most backward thing i have ever heard for 10 years..
Pablo
#14 Posted : Thursday, November 25, 2010 11:04:25 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 3/17/2008
Posts: 567
Location: Nairobi
Just wondering if one engaged all these professionals in a construction project what would be left for putting up the actual building.

Assume a construction project of 5M (residential home)


QS - 6% ?
Architect - 7?
Civil Engineer - 3%??
Mechanical Engineer - ??
Electrical Engineer - ??

Total - 20% Plus

Surely, maybe for projects in the Office of the President or so.
I sure agree with Kaigangio that all you need is the Civil Engineer and a fundi. Ingine ni vitisho.

Not to say they have no work but I think that they are very necessary in big building projects.

My 2 cents.

Kwanini
#15 Posted : Friday, November 26, 2010 9:12:13 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/28/2009
Posts: 353
Location: Cloud
@kagizzard,@pablo, i cant agree more. Truth be told, most of kawaida chaps cant afford some of these ivy league professionals. You will be surprised that most of the seasoned fundis can give u a current BoQ to the accuracy of 5% once they get the architects drawings.

And they have an interesting way of generating the BoQ too.... One die carries 400 ft of mawe ya 6, one fundi can comfortably set mawe ya x ft per day, trenches of x ft take x days @ kes x per day... koroga of Y depth, B WIDTH, G length takes T cement, F sand, D ballast.... Y10 cost kes 600 times R pieces.. etc.

The trick to mitigate the shortcut is in the supervision of workmanship at every stage. if u r street smart u can get an engineer from the municipalities moonlighting at your site for piece of mind.

"For i am the master and the captain of my fate"
FundamentAli
#16 Posted : Friday, November 26, 2010 9:41:14 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/4/2008
Posts: 1,289
Location: Nairobi
Pablo wrote:
Just wondering if one engaged all these professionals in a construction project what would be left for putting up the actual building.

Assume a construction project of 5M (residential home)


QS - 6% ?
Architect - 7?
Civil Engineer - 3%??
Mechanical Engineer - ??
Electrical Engineer - ??

Total - 20% Plus

Surely, maybe for projects in the Office of the President or so.
I sure agree with Kaigangio that all you need is the Civil Engineer and a fundi. Ingine ni vitisho.

Not to say they have no work but I think that they are very necessary in big building projects.

My 2 cents.


Where do you get your figures from? Last I checked the Architect gets 6%, QS and Structural Engineers 2.5% each with services engineer at 2%.


fresher2010
#17 Posted : Friday, November 26, 2010 9:57:57 AM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 10/26/2010
Posts: 34
Location: Nairobi
@ Pablo, seriosuly, where did you get those percentages from? i think i need to meet whoever gongad you like that...
@ Kwanini, well yes you can always avoid the services of a QS, but trust me, unless you are there throughout there is no way you will save money...
@Pablo, those are minimum fees, one can always ask for more, but not less than what is prescribed in CAP 525.

I still insist, a building project doesnt need a project manager if everyone else did their roles professionally..but hey , let me not hate so much on them...
Jamaa wa mjengo
Kaigangio
#18 Posted : Friday, November 26, 2010 10:03:11 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/27/2007
Posts: 2,768
@ fundamentali,

We have some lawyers who have studied and specialized in construction laws and do interprete them for what they are in relationship to construction or construction disputes…I would not be worried if I engaged one for their services.

@ fantony,

It is not me who said that the project managers are not needed in any construction projects. I have so far not posted anything on project managers…please read the posts again.

Please note that questioning the role of a QS in a construction project does not amount to primitivity, but rather “thinking outside the box”.

You see fantony, as a construction client or developer it would be in my interest if I could reduce on professional fees while maintaining quality designs and construction works. It is therefore pretty in order for me to consider which professional contributions I would do without and still attain my desired goal without compromising on quality…

@ Pablo,

I think this is the scale on average,

Architect – 6%
Civil/structural Engineer - 3%
QS – 1.5%
Electrical/Mechanical Engineer – 1.5%

This makes 12% on fees alone, but does not include disbursements (project meetings and inspections) which may constitute another 10-15%... not economical for small scale projects!!!

@ Quantity Surveyors

What effect direct or indirect would the project have if there were no services of a QS?

What value does the QS add to the overall construction project management and functionalities throughout the project life?
...besides, the presence of a safe alone does not signify that there is money inside...
FundamentAli
#19 Posted : Friday, November 26, 2010 10:27:11 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/4/2008
Posts: 1,289
Location: Nairobi
@Kaigangio

Hiring a construction lawyer to go to your site and interprete simple matters over a period of say two years can be very expensive. Give it Shs. 12,000/- per hour. These guys are specialist. These guys work more with contractors and make their money by raising frivolous claims.
fresher2010
#20 Posted : Friday, November 26, 2010 11:30:03 AM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 10/26/2010
Posts: 34
Location: Nairobi
@ FundamentAli- Not all claims are frivolous, there are some which are genuine which are caused by actions of either the client or his agents, (read: Architects, Engineers, PMs and rarely the QS) And this construction law specialist if they are worth their salt should be on board from the time the project commenced otherwise it will be hard for them to have any basis of their claims..and by the way, the various claims of course should be within the ambit of the contract document being used.

There are genuine contractors out there, the Chinese, Laxmanbhai, HYoung, Cementers just to name a few..

@ Kaigagio, read the 1st post by swaweru,am sure you shall see their value... in as much as you want to save on costs, rarely will you make any savings from not engaging a QS, unless its an SQ or a simple bungalow..for a commercial property or your dream home, costs for sure will escalate, without the QS on board...and yes, even if he is on board, the costs may still escalate depending on the architect and the client.

IMHO, dont try cut costs with the architects and engineers, since lives may be lost due to poor design and supervision. If you want you can omit the QS, at your own risk of course.
Jamaa wa mjengo
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