Read whatever you may.... but yeah, I would love to see that someday....... Or may be we should allow them to sodomise our children so that we can GUARANTEE them a ticket to heaven.....

Why aren't we fighting for the rights of those who practice beastiality/zoophillia, prostitution, and child molestation in the same breath or dont they have rights too?

I thought this topic is about Gays.... not doctors... doctors had their day in another thread unless you missed it.

If it is illegal them please take them to court for trial. I have my own thoughts on any laws that try to judge morality.
In the meantime, I will abstain from lining up to stone the next person I consider immoral. I have my own moral issues to deal with.

Just a thought.

I think we are blowing this issue out of proportion. No one said they have no moral issues. We all do, and many more may be more than the gayism...... But i also know i do not have to hide my feelings about it just because i have my moral issues...... I dont have to condone it just because am not an angel(which am not if i may declare right here).... the gay also have a right to express their dislike on the "straights" moral decay.... and i would have no problem if they shouted it on top of the hills even if i practice the same vice... Its their opinion......

There're lots of gay men in marriages,a fact most of us opt to turn a blind eye to. When arguing lets not get too emotional to see the point. Gays are there,but does that mean they're out there to sodomize our kids? It's said that in every 30min,a woman is raped in Kenya. 70% of these are our little girls. Raped and molested by our very own straight brothers and husbands.

The issue here is not gaysim and whether it's morally wrong or right. The issue is: Should healthcare be affordable and accessible to all regardless of their sexual orientation?

I was going to ask this yesterday but on reading @leona's response, i thought may be i was "emotional" and thought well, it could be coz am pretty passionate on this issue and decided to think it through..... and i have concluded may be what i need here is education.

@leona/rasilio/anyone else who has some info that i may not have.....

Please explain to me like a 4 year old how the gay are denied access to medical care in this country....

What i did yesterday, i decided to ask anyone who cared to respond these three questions and they all seemed to have the same no-answer unless there is someone here who has a contrary experience

I asked them if they have, recently, sought medical services and if on any form they were required to fill in on their medical history they came across questions such as follows

11.(a) Are you gay?
(b) Is there anyone in your family who has ever suffered from this condition?
(c) If any of the above answers is in the affirmative, please explain.

12. how did you contract your disease - especially the case of HIV

They also confirmed that none of the doctors they consulted asked them, directly or indirectly any of these questions. I also have never been asked these questions in all my many years in this good earth. So my humble question is, how are these guys discriminated against when they seek medical services?(am just ignorant)

This led me to some conclusions that either

1. there is a streak of HIV that targets only the gay people (and thats how doctors and other health professionals get to know how these guys contracted it hence deny them medical attention)

2. There may be a special condition (which i am not aware of) that affects this group of people and the only way it is contracted is through this practice

3. If none of the above is true, then they could be using this (to win sympathizers) to demand that we accept their practice as normal.

Well, i dont know, but may be this education will help me accept charles Wanjiku (formally Charles Mwangi) as my "daughter in law" and may be manage to help "her" adjust her straps on "her" wedding day knowing very well all those straps are supporting is some mandazi nylon papers stuffed with some old magazettis for a 'chesty' look (ngai fafa... God forbid)

Thank you Wendz for that very realistic take to the issue at hand.

I will apologize before hand for this long post.

I am neither for or against gay rights. I consider that a societal issue and to be honest, it may be too late.

I am more concerned with the medical issue at hand. Murugi would not have said what she did unless there is overwhelming evidence of something very tragic happening. I want to remind you that the current rates of HIV are most prevalent with married couples.

The truth of the matter is that most people who are gay are also in heterosexual relationships.

The ones not being given medical attention are the overtly gay. Like the ones being shown on TV. This unfortunately is the picture the media wants to paint on the gay issue. It is not the case. Most in the Kenyan community are upwardly mobile and are to put it midly "role models" in our society.

The Band Played On

The history of the epidemic is fraught with stigmatizing, simple conclusions and ostrich like behavior.

Regan refused to fund HIV because it mainly affected "those people". So for a long time CDC scientists could not stop its spread. After all, only gay people were affected and its best for them to go to hell mapema.

When they proved that it was spread through blood, even the Red Cross refused to screen blood. That is until children started dying.

When it came to Kenya, again we said it is only affecting people in the coast, Luos and prostitutes. That is until women who have only slept with their husbands started dying.

Please read the book by Randy Shilts. It is a poetry masterpiece on how human beings deal with none issues as the main issues continue to eat at us.

Kenya as it Is

Mirugi is asking us to not repeat the mistake again.

If you take a trip on facebook to do dustbin research, you will find a strong gay and lesbian community in Kenya.

I am not supporting gay rights. But I will not pretend that they don't exist and they may be affecting my children as we speak.

How many of us know we are totally safe?

It is true that openly gay guys are denied access to health care. All you have to do is read the posts on this forum that is full of educated people.

Now what do you think is happening to the young penniless gay prostitute in Lamu? Or haven't you gone outside Ambassador hotel and seen a thriving gay prostitute industry. Those married men come back to your home.

When your husband goes to Mombasa, he looks for his ndogo ndogo. A ndogo ndogo you know about and approve of. When he was not around, the ndogo ndogo her own gacugua. The male gacugua is a dual citizen for lack of a better word.

His kaboyfi is HIV positive and because he's the one wearing the earings, is chased by the Luhya watchie who would rather burn him.

Your husband comes back home to you.

The Stoning Parable

When this parable is spoken my pastor says that we should not stone others as we have also sinned.

I tend to disagree.

I think it means, stop stoning as the next person being stoned, MAY BE YOU.

The Issue

The issue is not gay rights. I doubt if that is coming in my lifetime to Kenya.

The issue is medical support for everyone and accepting that they exist.

@ rasilio

did you say that some fellows are actually married (to women) and that they are gays during the day? i need some help here...

@Wendz
It may not be direct denial/discrimination but the fact the homosexuality is a criminal offence and the fact that there is a lot of hate speech/actions directed against gays makes it harder for them to come out in the open (eg to seek medical attention particularly as regards medical conditions that could be connected to their practice).

@Kaiganjo, they are there.
@Wendz, prostitution is not illegal, pimping is.
@All WHO CARES!

@mpenzi...

Sorry, i have read it again, sloooowly.... i now understand.... especially the criminal & the aggression towards them bit.

And yes, i dont think discrimination is the problem. they want "recognition"... I dont know how.....

I got it!

http://www.facebook.com/...ideo.php?v=460416300768

Enjoy