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mjuaji wa stocks		#11 Posted : Tuesday, October 05, 2010 11:13:19 AM
Rank: Member Joined: 1/16/2010 Posts: 672 Location: nairobi		@mukiha...young is relative....what do you mean by saying young....or do you mean young chronologically ama? Ok....20 yrs ago....so somebody scared you that you may die bla bla bla...but look you are still alive....have you ever had any insurance guy telling you something good when selling the policy to you??? ,,....of course not!! Scare the hell out of someone then ....get the money!! Mimi siwezi kubali!! Acha nicheze na pesa zangu....The race is not to the swift......time and chance happen to us all!! God gave me the power to make wealth ... Blessed the work of my hands & enabled be A SELF MADE BILLIONAIRE ...... TO GOD THE FATHER OF MY LORD JESUS CHRIST; BE THE GLORY NOW & FOREVER MORE!
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guru267		#12 Posted : Tuesday, October 05, 2010 11:24:18 AM
Rank: Elder Joined: 1/21/2010 Posts: 6,675 Location: Nairobi		mjuaji wa stocks wrote: @mukiha...young is relative....what do you mean by saying young....or do you mean young chronologically ama? Ok....20 yrs ago....so somebody scared you that you may die bla bla bla...but look you are still alive....have you ever had any insurance guy telling you something good when selling the policy to you??? ,,....of course not!! Scare the hell out of someone then ....get the money!! Mimi siwezi kubali!! Acha nicheze na pesa zangu....The race is not to the swift......time and chance happen to us all!! @mjuaji you can't compare insurance policies and mortgages to unit trusts.... Unit trusts are one of the investment vehicles so can only be compared with stocks, bonds, hedge funds and the like.... Insurance policies are actually a security to any dependants you may leave behind or a way to recover losses which is definitely necessary in ones life.... By the way if you ever decide to take up one PLEASE go to JUBILEE!!! Mark 12:29 Deuteronomy 4:16
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msimon		#13 Posted : Tuesday, October 05, 2010 11:27:45 AM
Rank: New-farer Joined: 8/23/2010 Posts: 63 Location: Kampala		mukiha wrote: guru267 wrote: mukiha wrote: @guru; not quite. Unit trusts are for people of all age groups. The specific target being those who don't have the time or the knowledge to follow up on market trends and company performances. Believe me; those are the majority in any population (young or old). In my opinion; the average wazua member might not like unit trusts...and how many are we? 1,000 perhaps? @mukiha whether one has knowledge or not doesn't really matter.... Throw all your money into a bluechip stock now and check it out 15 years later... I guarantee it will have returned WAY more than a unit trust...... Now that's the kind of knowledge I'm talking about. How do tell that a company is a "blue chip"? Very few people know...... and the word knowledge comes from "know" Its more than assuming that todays blue chips, will be tomorrows blue chips too...take an example from in the past 18yrs, there have been 17 changes in the constituents of the NSE-20. "Many shall be restored that are now fallen and may shall fall that are now in Honour"- Horace-Ars Poetica
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winston		#14 Posted : Tuesday, October 05, 2010 11:33:02 AM
Rank: Member Joined: 4/14/2010 Posts: 806 Location: Nairobi		I personally have no beef with all four of the investment vehicles i.e. Unit trust, Insurance, stocks and mortgage. Each serves a different purpose. And it all depends on ones outlook of life, their risk appetite, their investment objectives etc Risk is real. And a wise man plans for the eventuality that he may not be there to cater for his family. Those negative comments on insurance companies happen due to people either not reading the policy document or due to mis-selling by insurance agents (common practice) and in few cases faulty products. Most life policies in kenya do not acquire a value(surrender value) until the third year. Well if you are not aware and come in year two to demand your premiums back...you will be out of luck. Please read the fine print. The unit trust funds are invested by managers at a fee. The real question is whether in the long term, you as an individual investor can Consistently make better returns than trained fund managers (with all the tools at their disposal).
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The Merchant		#15 Posted : Tuesday, October 05, 2010 11:34:09 AM
Rank: Veteran Joined: 5/24/2010 Posts: 846 Location: KENYA		mjuaji wa stocks wrote: Ok guys....to me unit trusts and insurance policies for example ati education; investment etc etc etc………are the same….. I will never invest in unit trusts ama insurance policies which promise to pay me a lamp sum after 15 or 20 years.... My reasons: These guys use my money to buy shares and trade in them....make lots of money and pay me peanuts!!! NOT ME! I'd better study hard to know how these investments are done then go ahead and do it myself! I WILL NEVER MAKE SOMEONE ELSE BE INCHARGE OF MY MONEY.......NO ONE CAN TAKE CARE OF MY MONEY LIKE I CAN!! Where do insurance companies invest in???....the NSE Where do mutual funds / unit trusts invest in??.....the NSE Therefore i will do that myself....kama mbaya ...mbaya...kama sawa.....sawa!! Unless i want to call the shots and have control....i will invest in a private equity firm like centum!! Tell me any of the richest guys who ever invested in unit trusts All i know is that ....all wealthy guys worked themselves to make their own money by investing themselves or taking large stakes and controlling companies e.g Warren Buffet. @njung'e @guru....it is true that we remain poor coz of lack of knowledge......that is why majority of people are poor.....most of them have bought insurance policies and are waiting for 15 or 20 yrs to be paid ...what they are doing for the next 15 or 20 yrs ....ni ku-contribute premiums This reminds me of mortgages!!! another no go zone! Well, while I agree with you that a smart investor would rather employ his knowledge and discipline in seeking a higher rate of return in the markets I differ with you on the insurance issue. Now, insurance cushions one, or his dependants, incase something happens to him say an accident. If you have invested in the markets for say 5yrs and something happens to you and your hospital bill is say 3m plus disability which prevents you from trading then your entire fortune will go down the drain. My 2 cents? Do not invest in the investment linked insurance packages if they do not suit your taste but at least get a life cover and personal accident cover. In addittion to this invest time to learn the markets, invest and have the discipline to do this for the rest of your life. Mutual trusts may be ok after you are done making enough money and are too old to even type.
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The Merchant		#16 Posted : Tuesday, October 05, 2010 11:37:36 AM
Rank: Veteran Joined: 5/24/2010 Posts: 846 Location: KENYA		winston wrote: I personally have no beef with all four of the investment vehicles i.e. Unit trust, Insurance, stocks and mortgage. Each serves a different purpose. And it all depends on ones outlook of life, their risk appetite, their investment objectives etc Risk is real. And a wise man plans for the eventuality that he may not be there to cater for his family. Those negative comments on insurance companies happen due to people either not reading the policy document or due to mis-selling by insurance agents (common practice) and in few cases faulty products. Most life policies in kenya do not acquire a value(surrender value) until the third year. Well if you are not aware and come in year two to demand your premiums back...you will be out of luck. Please read the fine print. The unit trust funds are invested by managers at a fee. The real question is whether in the long term, you as an individual investor can Consistently make better returns than trained fund managers (with all the tools at their disposal). well put.
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guru267		#17 Posted : Tuesday, October 05, 2010 11:38:25 AM
Rank: Elder Joined: 1/21/2010 Posts: 6,675 Location: Nairobi		winston wrote: The unit trust funds are invested by managers at a fee. The real question is whether in the long term, you as an individual investor can Consistently make better returns than trained fund managers (with all the tools at their disposal). @winston and what happens when the make returns of 200% in a year with YOUR money? They give you back 8%.... Total crap.... I'd rather keep my money in a risk free bond or fixed deposit account.... Mark 12:29 Deuteronomy 4:16
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winston		#18 Posted : Tuesday, October 05, 2010 11:49:26 AM
Rank: Member Joined: 4/14/2010 Posts: 806 Location: Nairobi		guru267 wrote: winston wrote: The unit trust funds are invested by managers at a fee. The real question is whether in the long term, you as an individual investor can Consistently make better returns than trained fund managers (with all the tools at their disposal). @winston and what happens when the make returns of 200% in a year with YOUR money? They give you back 8%.... Total crap.... I'd rather keep my money in a risk free bond or fixed deposit account.... @Guru...if my reading is correct, then they will only retain the fee as a percentage of the portfolio. The fee is based on the portfolio size, other than this and taxes, the rest is ploughed back into your account by way of units. In money market fund the units are priced at 1/= but in equity fund it will the the unit value of the fund. For all that its worth, the roles are pretty segregated (or should be) with a separate custodian, investment manager and adminstrator with CMA regulating. By the way...most of the money market funds give higher returns than Tbills and fixed deposit...if you check the papers their annual rate is 3-4% compared to T/Bills which is about 2%
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Ric dees		#19 Posted : Tuesday, October 05, 2010 12:50:20 PM
Rank: Member Joined: 3/6/2008 Posts: 632		@guru267 I think we can't generalize, last year my portfolio (Kenya) made 70% while my unit trusts made 130% so what would you advice...seek more knowledge!! and note i am not an active investor. The greatest danger in times of turbulence is not the turbulence; it is to act with yesterday's logic.
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tkzee		#20 Posted : Tuesday, October 05, 2010 1:12:54 PM
Rank: Member Joined: 7/13/2010 Posts: 160 Location: rift Valley-Naks		groupielove wrote: mjuaji wa stocks wrote: Ok guys....to me unit trusts and insurance policies for example ati education; investment etc etc etc………are the same….. I will never invest in unit trusts ama insurance policies which promise to pay me a lamp sum after 15 or 20 years.... My reasons: These guys use my money to buy shares and trade in them....make lots of money and pay me peanuts!!! NOT ME! I'd better study hard to know how these investments are done then go ahead and do it myself! I WILL NEVER MAKE SOMEONE ELSE BE INCHARGE OF MY MONEY.......NO ONE CAN TAKE CARE OF MY MONEY LIKE I CAN!! Where do insurance companies invest in???....the NSE Where do mutual funds / unit trusts invest in??.....the NSE Therefore i will do that myself....kama mbaya ...mbaya...kama sawa.....sawa!! Unless i want to call the shots and have control....i will invest in a private equity firm like centum!! Tell me any of the richest guys who ever invested in unit trusts All i know is that ....all wealthy guys worked themselves to make their own money by investing themselves or taking large stakes and controlling companies e.g Warren Buffet. @njung'e @guru....it is true that we remain poor coz of lack of knowledge......that is why majority of people are poor.....most of them have bought insurance policies and are waiting for 15 or 20 yrs to be paid ...what they are doing for the next 15 or 20 yrs ....ni ku-contribute premiums This reminds me of mortgages!!! another no go zone! I totally agree with you.Just have a look at capital letters in Thursday's Money Matters. majority of the complaints are for guys complaining about Insurance covers that refuses to honor their pledge or breaks contracts with impunity. Talking of Stocks, though I am not a Guru, I wouldn't entrust wholly some guys play about with my money, when I have the same chance to do so. Like @mukiha said,buy life insurance and medical if you have dependants coz your loss/disability will have an effect on them.Else if you're single medical insurance will do,if you not provided for by your co. ''i can calculate the motion of heavenly bodies,but not the madness of people''-Isaac Newton
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