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VALUATION AND ANALYSIS OF DERIVATIVES & FIXED INCOME SECURITIES
mukiha
#51 Posted : Tuesday, October 05, 2010 10:19:01 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
M.Sc.[Financial Engineering]?

Now I give up! During our days, that would have simply been called M.A.[Finance for Engineers]

As Einstein, once said; "when mathematicians started working on relativity, I ceased to understand it"

Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
kizee1
#52 Posted : Tuesday, October 05, 2010 10:57:56 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 9/29/2010
Posts: 679
Location: nairobi
CMG

whats your advice for someone who wants to transition into quant finance yet said person doesnt have an undergrad in a hard science
CapitalMarketsGeek
#53 Posted : Wednesday, October 13, 2010 2:27:29 AM
Rank: New-farer

Joined: 9/11/2010
Posts: 36
Kizee1
If you want to transition to quant, you have two option 1) go back to school and study more maths and programming and apply for a master program in a quant subject or 2) Come up with a quantitative working strategy in tradings, derivative formulations or financial programming. I won't tell you to try to be the best trader coz trading by human being won't be there in a year or two, considering the fact that 70% of tradings are currently done by supercomputers up from 25% two years ago and of course the 30% done by human are also computer aided and when I say computer aided I mean upto 99% computer aided, you cannot just get up in the morning and start trading in these markets and expect to be rich when you're competing with people who front run the market basically.
drake
#54 Posted : Wednesday, October 13, 2010 7:05:18 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 8/8/2009
Posts: 170
@Kizee

CMG is right, generally. I've done considerable research on this as I had, (note the past tense), ambitions of my own. Allow me to share some of what I found out here.

First, forget all that KEMU & KU shit. The best LOCAL alternative for a career as a Quant would be - BSc. Financial Engineering offered at JKUAT.

Peep the course content at this link:

http://www.jkuat.ac.ke/programme.php?id=74

You mentioned that your undergrad wasn't in a hard science: Find below the class profile for the 2010 MFE Program at Berkeley:

MAJORS
Engineering 40%
Mathematics 17%
Business 9%
Natural Sciences 8%
Computer Science 6%
Humanities 3%
Economics 5%
Finance 3%
MBA 3%
Other 3%

Undergraduate isn't as important; just demonstrate that you're good at math & can program.

As Regards JKUAT, I'm guessing Kizee, that you're not planning to go back to undergrad (& full-time at that) so your best option would be an MFE of MSc - Financial Mathematics. My question to you is, do you plan to work locally or "abroad"?

Why that matters is because if you're planning to work locally, you can, I believe, "get away with much less" i.e might as well go for CQF which would be rare & highly regarded here or elsewhere on the continent versus "abroad".

If you're intent on doing a Masters program "abroad", I'd advice you to consider Europe and not the U.S.... (e.g UK - Manchester, ICMA Cass [quite popular in Kenya] etc, Italy - Bocconi, Switzerland - EHT etc as the courses are less competitive, pocket friendlier, take a much shorter duration (even 9 months Full Time) and most institutions have in the past been more generous w/financial aid.

Prerequisites:
The fact that you don't have solid math credentials might complicate things for you. Most of these Quantitative Finance programs do give a refresher/ Math primer the first week or 2 of study but if that's all you're depending on, you're likely to fail.

At the very minimum, you do need to be very familiar with Matrices, Vectors, Linear Algebra 1, 2 ; Calculus 1,2,3; Probability & Statistics, Numerical Analysis ...as these will form the core of your study ...(I might have left some out) .

Here is a sample math test offered at the end of a CQF Math primer, if this doesn't intimidate you, (ignore numbers 18 - 20 smile ) you're good to go.

http://www.7city.com/pdf/cqf/maths_test.pdf

You also need to be more than familiar with object oriented programing specifically "MATLAB" , "R", "C++", "Java" ... no one will touch you if u can't program.

Good Luck!
kizee1
#55 Posted : Wednesday, October 13, 2010 11:05:05 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 9/29/2010
Posts: 679
Location: nairobi
@cmg

so im actually a trader, im fascinated by quant finance to basically look at trading from a different perspective, as well as be a pioneer in the kenyan derivatives space

@drake

thanks, i actualy im starting the cqf in jan, i passed the pre math quiz it was rather easy, i read the schaums books in and out for a year and felt quite comfortable with applied math,i was actualy enrolled in the jan 2010 cohort but had to drop out, the cqf math primer was 3 days, it was extremely shallow, the pace of the program is too fast for someone who has a 9-5, i will keep both u guys posted on my progress

thanks for your responses, im extremely grateful
kizee1
#56 Posted : Wednesday, October 13, 2010 11:10:04 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 9/29/2010
Posts: 679
Location: nairobi
@drake- why did u give up your ambitions
@cmg- cud u recomend a gud online math programme i cud take, netmath looked decent
CapitalMarketsGeek
#57 Posted : Wednesday, October 13, 2010 9:12:50 PM
Rank: New-farer

Joined: 9/11/2010
Posts: 36
Kizee1.
I will give you the advise I always give pple fresh out of undergrad; there are so many other ways you can end up in a good bank doing something rewarding in terms of pay and job satisfaction other than being a quant. you can follow the CFA route, you can follow the MBA( GOOD MBA) route, you can follow the JD/LLM route. Most of the time quant schools are out of reach in terms of requirements and fees for most pple,unless you're planning to work for world top 5 investment banks or top 3 hedge funds as a quant, its not worth going to a quant school, matter of facts, no good quant sch will admit you if they think you're not going to get a job with high starting salary and high signing bonus thats what these schools take pride on. Quant classes are as easy as any other program anyone with college level math and programming knowledge will not have a problem but getting in is hard since they figure out that if they admit the best students it will be easier for them to job place them and negotiate high salary and bonus, inturn they attract more applicants willing to take loans to pay for the program!
Good thing is your signing bonus can cover all the loans you took to pay for the program.
My second advise is, check B schools some of them have very good programs e.g Illinois institute of technology MSF.
I won't advise you to take online math program it will not help your admission. Infact they have specific topics you have to cover and they usually reject math programs from some schools if the think they don't cover well the topics they need. Call the school and they will be more than willing to answer some of your questions.
drake
#58 Posted : Thursday, October 14, 2010 6:58:37 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 8/8/2009
Posts: 170
@Kizee
CQF is a first (can't find any indigenous black African names among Alumni) & a bold step ... what would be even more impressive is if you somehow managed to get your employer to pay for it smile !

Also, to echo what CMG said, it's true that MSc.Physics/MFE/MSc. > CQF for face value recognition of the designation & also the coursework is deemed to be more rigorous. The great thing about the latter though is you get to cover 1-2yrs work in 6months & part time at that.

As far as the math, I'm not sure if this helps...

http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/mathematics/

It's a great resource but sadly, you can't earn credits for the courses also some videos have low sound quality (e.g. Linear Algebra)

I gave up my ambitions because (1) I felt career-wise, I would be a better fit in PE ....and that it would be a better fit for me! (2) I didn't like the risk/return distribution .....I didn't feel I had an "edge" venturing into quantitative finance; you're either a giant or a dwarf (quoting Taleb) and the giants make off with the biggest piece of the pie leaving the rest for the dwarfs to fight over.

@CMG
I've always wondered what it's like to work at a HF and I wonder if you would indulge me?

+ How big is your firm (AUM)?
+ What strategies do you run? Stat Arb, Long/short, Activist, Distressed?
+ What's role do you play and what are the hours like?
+ Layoffs at D.E Shaw...... being replicated/contemplated elsewhere? Job security on a 1-10 scale?

Much appreciated!
kizee1
#59 Posted : Thursday, October 14, 2010 10:35:58 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 9/29/2010
Posts: 679
Location: nairobi
thanks cgm &drake, my employer didnt see value so i paid it for myself, i will chek out the link u sent me..thanks for your help
CapitalMarketsGeek
#60 Posted : Thursday, October 14, 2010 8:53:38 PM
Rank: New-farer

Joined: 9/11/2010
Posts: 36
Drake...
I am going to try to answer as much as I can, I work in a team of 19 pple we manager $4.5 billion of a wholly owned subsi' of a bank, meaning in-house fund, we basically have four team of four pple and the leadership of the fund; we have strategy team, sales, programming and trading teams. Its a closed fund, compensations is perfomance based, 2% of the fund covers our operation cost annually which include base pay for all of us and the operating expense, 10% of the annual profit is our bonus, 70% goes to the bank and 20% goes to the investor.All othe capital investment e.g IT is handle by the bank. I work in strategy team

I work late most of the time 12 to 14 hrs a day but no one forces me to and of course entire team does that coz we really believe in what we do and we're very much attach to some of the stuff, yea!I do get up sometimes in the middle of the night just to make sure europe and asian markets are stable( its not a requirement since our systems are programmed to run themselve and respond to any unusually decline in markets appropriately).
My social life, the last time I was in a night club was in 2006 but I am in my late 20s so its understandble. I am not married and probably never will, it is easy to pick up women these day beleive me.
Strategies we use are a range of them and include all you listed, our systems scan the markets every fraction of a second looking for anything to reap, 70% is highfreq and 30% of tradin is human.
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